A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[mvp 78]

1 yr too late? Are we supposed to be haunted by 2022 forever?

 

We're still haunted by 2011-12 and the Sox have won 2 WS since then.

[Old Red]

1 yr too late? Are we supposed to be haunted by 2022 forever?

 

Forever? A new season hasn’t even started yet, and 2022 is the last year on record. A good start, and a trip to the postseason in 2023 would alleviate that, but a repeat of 2022 would just be a continuation of a bad pattern. I’m hoping for a postseason trip myself, but that’s far from a certainty.

[Old Red]

We're still haunted by 2011-12 and the Sox have won 2 WS since then.

 

Like I’ve said the 4 WS wins don’t make the last place finishes alright.

[Bellhorn04]

Like I’ve said the 4 WS wins don’t make the last place finishes alright.

 

When the Red Sox had their Impossible Dream season in 1967, did fans say "that was great, but it doesn't make up for a decade of sucking"?

 

I don't think so.

[Old Red]

When the Red Sox had their Impossible Dream season in 1967, did fans say "that was great, but it doesn't make up for a decade of sucking"?

 

I don't think so.

 

1967 my favorite Red Sox team of all time, and the start of Red Sox Nation. Look I believe most fans only care about the here, and now. Why do you think JH was boo’d on two separate occasions when he showed his face in public?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm calling slanted verbiage on "labored".

 

Kluber toiled all year for the Rays, a playoff team, with results that the pitching gurus in Tampa decided didn't warrant bringing him back. That has to be at least curious for Sox fans -- especially for a division rival who has been spending more lately...

 

If Boston's front office is smart enough not to re-sign Wacha, then what does that say about Tampa and Kluber?

[Bellhorn04]

1967 my favorite Red Sox team of all time, and the start of Red Sox Nation. Look I believe most fans only care about the here, and now. Why do you think JH was boo’d on two separate occasions when he showed his face in public?

 

I couldn't disagree more, and I can't believe you really think that. I think most Red Sox fans, excluding little kids and pink hats, know the history of the team very well, and it means a lot to them. Before 2004, we were all obsessed with the drought since 1918 and all the heartbreaking near-misses.

[Bellhorn04]

Kluber toiled all year for the Rays, a playoff team, with results that the pitching gurus in Tampa decided didn't warrant bringing him back. That has to be at least curious for Sox fans -- especially for a division rival who has been spending more lately...

 

If Boston's front office is smart enough not to re-sign Wacha, then what does that say about Tampa and Kluber?

 

It's a valid question, but the Rays do operate on a limited budget, and it appears they decided Eflin was their target this year.

 

Also, you could just as easily ask what the Rays saw in Kluber signing him for 2022.

[Old Red]

I couldn't disagree more, and I can't believe you really think that. I think most Red Sox fans, excluding little kids and pink hats, know the history of the team very well, and it means a lot to them. Before 2004, we were all obsessed with the drought since 1918 and all the heartbreaking near-misses.

 

Ok we disagree. I know the 1967 team didn’t end up winning the WS, but when you’ve younger you see things differently. The team was young, and mostly homegrown, and of course there was Yaz. I understand 2004 ended the long suffering drought, but it’s just my opinion that 1967 was my favorite team. By the way 1975 was my second favorite team.

[mvp 78]

When the Red Sox had their Impossible Dream season in 1967, did fans say "that was great, but it doesn't make up for a decade of sucking"?

 

I don't think so.

 

When '04 happened, nearly everyone said "now I can die happy."

 

A few moments later....

[Old Red]

When '04 happened, nearly everyone said "now I can die happy."

 

A few moments later....

 

No doubt 2004 was the best Red Sox moment in our lifetime.

[mvp 78]

Kluber toiled all year for the Rays, a playoff team, with results that the pitching gurus in Tampa decided didn't warrant bringing him back. That has to be at least curious for Sox fans -- especially for a division rival who has been spending more lately...

 

If Boston's front office is smart enough not to re-sign Wacha, then what does that say about Tampa and Kluber?

 

Tampa wants younger and cheaper arms. Kluber is neither of those. Charlie Morton has had 2 good seasons since leaving the Rays. Why didn't they keep him?

[mvp 78]

Ok we disagree. I know the 1967 team didn’t end up winning the WS, but when you’ve younger you see things differently. The team was young, and mostly homegrown, and of course there was Yaz. I understand 2004 ended the long suffering drought, but it’s just my opinion that 1967 was my favorite team. By the way 1975 was my second favorite team.

 

You just like teams that LOSE in the World Series. You prefer LOSERS?!?!?!?

[Old Red]

You just like teams that LOSE in the World Series. You prefer LOSERS?!?!?!?

 

So they have to be a WS winner to be your favorite team? Sorry I disagree.

[moonslav59]

Honestly I think Alfaro has the edge.

 

He has the opt out clauses, which you usually don’t give to a player unless you’re serious about him. And the Sox don’t exactly have Pudge Fisk and Pudge Rodriguez behind the plate. With just a decent spring, Alfaro can put himself into the catching picture. With a great spring, he might find himself starting…

 

He does make sense, if the Sox feel very strongly about everyone currently on the 40, but I still think our most immediate need, beyond pitching, which would not change the need for a 13th everyday player for opening day, is SS not catcher or OF.

[moonslav59]

Everyone always wants to be right.

 

I hope I'm wrong on Duran, Brasier, Ort and Paxton.

[moonslav59]

When the Red Sox had their Impossible Dream season in 1967, did fans say "that was great, but it doesn't make up for a decade of sucking"?

 

I don't think so.

 

Now, we are spoiled.

[moonslav59]

You just like teams that LOSE in the World Series. You prefer LOSERS?!?!?!?

 

Not sure why he doesn't love the 2021 team, then.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Tampa wants younger and cheaper arms. Kluber is neither of those. Charlie Morton has had 2 good seasons since leaving the Rays. Why didn't they keep him?

 

Why did they agree to give Morton $15M AAV at the same age as Kluber, who had to settle for $10M with their lowly rivals?

[jacksonianmarch]

I’m still rather perplexed at this team’s makeup. You lose JD and replace him with the OF from Japan. You lose Eovaldi, who’s been your ace and replace him with Kluber, who’s a major step down. You lose Xander and don’t replace him. Story gets hurt and you replace him with another hurt player. You add in Duvall to shift Kike to the infield. It’s a lot of shifting, short term flexibility type roster spots full of guys coming in either unknown or off injured or down years. It seems to be the Sox latest quest to confuse the masses into thinking they aren’t in a rebuild

[moonslav59]

Why did they agree to give Morton $15M AAV at the same age as Kluber, who had to settle for $10M with their lowly rivals?

 

Morton had a recent history of success and 2 yrs in a row with 25+ GS'd.

 

IMO, they signed Kluber, expecting to trade him at the deadline, but needed him too much, as they were in the WC hunt.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I’m still rather perplexed at this team’s makeup. You lose JD and replace him with the OF from Japan. You lose Eovaldi, who’s been your ace and replace him with Kluber, who’s a major step down. You lose Xander and don’t replace him. Story gets hurt and you replace him with another hurt player. You add in Duvall to shift Kike to the infield. It’s a lot of shifting, short term flexibility type roster spots full of guys coming in either unknown or off injured or down years. It seems to be the Sox latest quest to confuse the masses into thinking they aren’t in a rebuild

 

No one here is confused. But it's sunny and warm today in New England and hope springs eternal. The bullpen has to be better, and the defense won't have Franchy at first, Arroyo in RF or Duran in CF. The names have changed on an offense that finished dead last, so it can't get much worse. New leaders could help Casas and Yoshida emerge as solid big leaguers, and it could be fun watching Alfaro blast a few walk-offs.

 

Everybody also knows if the old unreliables in the starting rotation break down early, it could be a disastrous summer. If that happens, there's also a chance the Sox' lone All-Star is Bello. The masses will take that in a rebuild.

[moonslav59]

I’m still rather perplexed at this team’s makeup. You lose JD and replace him with the OF from Japan. You lose Eovaldi, who’s been your ace and replace him with Kluber, who’s a major step down. You lose Xander and don’t replace him. Story gets hurt and you replace him with another hurt player. You add in Duvall to shift Kike to the infield. It’s a lot of shifting, short term flexibility type roster spots full of guys coming in either unknown or off injured or down years. It seems to be the Sox latest quest to confuse the masses into thinking they aren’t in a rebuild

 

We replaced JD with Turner, who rates to be better than the 2022 or 2023 JD.

 

We replaced Bogey's bat with Yoshida, who may fall short.

 

We replaced JBJ, Duran and Pham's bat with Duvall and maybe more from Ref.

 

We replaced Dalbec/Hosmer with Casas.

 

Vaz/Plaw with McGuire/Wong.

 

Nate may have been the "ace," but he did not pitch like on in 2022 and didn't rate to going forward. I do agree Kluber looks like a step down but not from the '22 Nate. I think Whitlock & Bello can and will take up the slack of losing Wacha and Hill.

 

Sale and Paxton likely need to combined for a solid 25-33 starts between them for us to have a legit shot, unless someone surprises (Mata, Walter or Bello/Whitlock/Houck bust out bigtime.)

 

It's not as hopeless as you make it out to be. You zero in on 1-2 slots and act like that tells the whole story.

 

Our 26 man roster should have 14 new players or returning players that were not starters start to finish in 2022.

 

The 40 man roster's seniority list has Paxton 17th, so we basically have over half the 40 that weren't on it, all last season.

[Bellhorn04]

I’m still rather perplexed at this team’s makeup. You lose JD and replace him with the OF from Japan. You lose Eovaldi, who’s been your ace and replace him with Kluber, who’s a major step down.

 

The only year Nathan was our ace was 2021. Kluber had a much better fWAR last year. Your basis in facts is pretty sketchy.

[mvp 78]

I’m still rather perplexed at this team’s makeup. You lose JD and replace him with the OF from Japan. You lose Eovaldi, who’s been your ace and replace him with Kluber, who’s a major step down. You lose Xander and don’t replace him. Story gets hurt and you replace him with another hurt player. You add in Duvall to shift Kike to the infield. It’s a lot of shifting, short term flexibility type roster spots full of guys coming in either unknown or off injured or down years. It seems to be the Sox latest quest to confuse the masses into thinking they aren’t in a rebuild

 

Aside from 2021, Eovaldi was not an ace.

[moonslav59]

The only year Nathan was our ace was 2021. Kluber had a much better fWAR last year. Your basis in facts is pretty sketchy.

 

Even Sale and ERod have a higher fWAR since 2018.

 

ERod more since 2019.

 

One reason Nate leads the team in fWAR from 2020-2022 is that only Pivetta has been a SP'er the whole 3 years with Nate.

 

IP

345 Pivetta

340 Nate

176 Perez (2 yrs)

152 Whitlock (in pen)

146 Houck (in pen)

137 Richards

127 Wacha

124 Hill

 

I can see saying he was the "ace" from 2020-2022 due to Sale's injuries, but we were not "replacing an ace."

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Eovaldi was an ace in the 2018 postseason: of all hurlers appearing in 6 games and a minimum of 22 innings in a postseason, only two in the first 50 years of the Divisional Era (1969-2018) had a lower ERA, Opponent BA and WHIP – Schilling and Johnson in ’01.

[moonslav59]

Eovaldi was an ace in the 2018 postseason: of all hurlers appearing in 6 games and a minimum of 22 innings in a postseason, only two in the first 50 years of the Divisional Era (1969-2018) had a lower ERA, Opponent BA and WHIP – Schilling and Johnson in ’01.

 

He was also our best RP'er.

[mvp 78]

Eovaldi was an ace in the 2018 postseason: of all hurlers appearing in 6 games and a minimum of 22 innings in a postseason, only two in the first 50 years of the Divisional Era (1969-2018) had a lower ERA, Opponent BA and WHIP – Schilling and Johnson in ’01.

 

Now that is a SSS alert.

[Old Red]

Agreed. Unfortunately, he's going to be getting most of his at bats in the WBC it seems like.

 

I think that Yoshida getting most of his AB at the WBC is a good thing. He’ll face better pitching than he will in most of ST.