A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[dgalehouse]

Dombrowski has won pennants with the Marlins, Tigers, Red Sox and Phillies. Two World Championships and quite a few Division titles. Two executive of the year awards. Bloom has many miles to go before he can even be mentioned in the same sentence as Dombrowski. No amount of spin can change that.

[Old Red]

Dombrowski has won pennants with the Marlins, Tigers, Red Sox and Phillies. Two World Championships and quite a few Division titles. Two executive of the year awards. Bloom has many miles to go before he can even be mentioned in the same sentence as Dombrowski. No amount of spin can change that.

 

Agree, but the spinners have spun so many times they have corkscrewed themselves down miles in the earth.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Old Red

[Old Red]

But, you gave kudos to DD for not trading away suspects Casas, Bello and Rafaela, but refuse to give kudos to Bloom for Mayer, Romero, Bleis and Yorke, until they produce.

 

I haven’t written one word about , or given DD kudos for not trading away any prospects. That’s been your line that you have used often.

[Old Red]

You gave credit to DD for having Bello, Casas and Rafaela as proof the farm was not emptied. Now are you arguing that Bello (4.71 ERA) and Casas (.197 BA) have produced in a Sox uniform? In their limited time? And Rafaela, who has yet to play? I mean, since none have been traded, and none have produced, shouldn’t they be suspects and not prospects? And therefore not proof that DD didn’t empty the farm.

 

Or is there now suddenly another option from Mr. “Well you said this”?

Show me where I have said when everyone has been hyping Bello, and Casas that they are nothing more than promise at this point. I wouldn’t call that producing in a Red Sox uniform.

[notin]

Show me where I have said when everyone has been hyping Bello, and Casas that they are nothing more than promise at this point. I wouldn’t call that producing in a Red Sox uniform.

 

Post 7186 on this thread when you cited them as proof the farm wasn’t emptied…

[notin]

Dombrowski has won pennants with the Marlins, Tigers, Red Sox and Phillies. Two World Championships and quite a few Division titles. Two executive of the year awards. Bloom has many miles to go before he can even be mentioned in the same sentence as Dombrowski. No amount of spin can change that.

 

Bloom lacks his accolades and will probably never achieve a lot of the awards and successes DD has already. But will he ever get fired for leaving an organization in complete disarray like Dombrowski has twice already?

[Old Red]

Post 7186 on this thread when you cited them as proof the farm wasn’t emptied…

 

Yes I did, and as usual it meant something different to you that it did to me. Wow analyzing every word to try to guess the meaning like someone else who always gets it wrong too. Congrats, but you got enough to worry about with the shift coming, and if Turner is on the bench, or not. I’m guess he’s not on the bench.

[Old Red]

Bloom lacks his accolades and will probably never achieve a lot of the awards and successes DD has already. But will he ever get fired for leaving an organization in complete disarray like Dombrowski has twice already?

 

Yes! Already the Red Sox are worse off today than when Bloom found it despite what some will say about better farm rankings that in some has promise like Bello, and Casas presently, but hasn’t turned that promise into the W column.Firing DD once again does not take away the many failures of Bloom. Deny, Deny accuse. Bloom hasn’t been fired yet, but his day is coming. Bloom hasn’t won any rings yet either, and I’m not sure that day will ever come like it has for DD.

[notin]

Yes I did, and as usual it meant something different to you that it did to me. Wow analyzing every word to try to guess the meaning like someone else who always gets it wrong too. Congrats, but you got enough to worry about with the shift coming, and if Turner is on the bench, or not. I’m guess he’s not on the bench.

 

Whatever. This coming from the Mater of quotes he clearly doesn’t understand.

 

So now you’re trying to say you didn’t mean having those prospects meant DD didn’t empty the farm. Despite that being exactly what we were talking about.

 

Face it. DD emptied the farm. You have yet to show otherwise…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

Kike 4.4 fWAR

Renfroe 2.0

Wacha 1.5 (3.3 bWAR)

Hill 1.8

Strahm 0.3

Refsnyder 1.3 (4 mos)

Schreiber 1.8 (5 mos) 2.7 bWAR

Arroyo 1.1

Perez 1.1

Richards 1.0

 

The Whitlock steal: 3.0 fWAR

 

Some players from trades:

5.1 Verdugo

3.9 Pivetta

1.3 McGuire (2 months)

1.2 Schwarber (2 months)

0.8 Iggy (2 mos.)

0.6 Ottavino

0.3 Strahm

0.3 Wong (2 mos.)

 

 

 

I look at this list -- not with disdain for the performance of the players -- but with distaste with how Bloom operates. I count 18 different guys, and most of them came and went, almost as if Bloom was playing his own little game of building up and tearing down rosters.

 

Only four of the 18 -- Kike, Verdugo, Whitlock and Pivetta have been kept as fulltimers -- but it's not like we couldn't use a lot of the others who really contributed: like home run hitters, good middle infielders who really liked Boston, and a starting pitcher with 3+ WAR (and please don't bother reiterating the value of saving a mil here by dumping a guy for someone comparable there -- we root for Boston).

 

As a longtime baseball fan who grew up identifying with core players on Red Sox teams good and bad, I'm just not into disposable acquisitions that we use up and then let leave when they want market wages for what they've accomplished.

[Old Red]

I look at this list -- not with disdain for the performance of the players -- but with distaste with how Bloom operates. I count 18 different guys, and most of them came and went, almost as if Bloom was playing his own little game of building up and tearing down rosters.

 

Only four of the 18 -- Kike, Verdugo, Whitlock and Pivetta have been kept as fulltimers -- but it's not like we couldn't use a lot of the others who really contributed: like home run hitters, good middle infielders who really liked Boston, and a starting pitcher with 3+ WAR (and please don't bother reiterating the value of saving a mil here by dumping a guy for someone comparable there -- we root for Boston).

 

As a longtime baseball fan who grew up identifying with core players on Red Sox teams good and bad, I'm just not into disposable acquisitions that we use up and then let leave when they want market wages for what they've accomplished.

Good post. It’s called the Infamous Bloom Era.

[moonslav59]

Post 7186 on this thread when you cited them as proof the farm wasn’t emptied…

 

His own words mean nothing, later.

 

Like when he said I mentioned you in a post, and when I confronted him, he first denied it, then said I overanalyze.

 

Over analyze means you find a lie.

[Old Red]

His own words mean nothing, later.

 

Like when he said I mentioned you in a post, and when I confronted him, he first denied it, then said I overanalyze.

 

Over analyze means you find a lie.

Ah the heel tag team. You guys would be bad at password.

[moonslav59]

Bloom lacks his accolades and will probably never achieve a lot of the awards and successes DD has already. But will he ever get fired for leaving an organization in complete disarray like Dombrowski has twice already?

 

Bloom may very well end up with no rings and a poor legacy. There is a decent chance that happens. He's really done nothing that noticeable. Those of us accused of being Bloom spinners are far from Bloom lovers.

 

The guy was handed a near impossible situation and had a good 2021 season while apparently building up the farm. His legacy is yet to be determined.

 

I think of him like I did Ben. While most of his seasons, here were failures, he left a solid foundation for DD to work with. That is a part of a GM's legacy the Bloom bashers and DD lovers enjoy spinning and corkscrewing deep into the earth's crust.

 

[moonslav59]

I look at this list -- not with disdain for the performance of the players -- but with distaste with how Bloom operates. I count 18 different guys, and most of them came and went, almost as if Bloom was playing his own little game of building up and tearing down rosters.

 

Only four of the 18 -- Kike, Verdugo, Whitlock and Pivetta have been kept as fulltimers -- but it's not like we couldn't use a lot of the others who really contributed: like home run hitters, good middle infielders who really liked Boston, and a starting pitcher with 3+ WAR (and please don't bother reiterating the value of saving a mil here by dumping a guy for someone comparable there -- we root for Boston).

 

As a longtime baseball fan who grew up identifying with core players on Red Sox teams good and bad, I'm just not into disposable acquisitions that we use up and then let leave when they want market wages for what they've accomplished.

 

Again, what should be expected when you have $20M to spend year 1 with 15 slots to fill, $20M to spend year 2 with 12 slots to fill and $40M to spend year 3 with 9 slots to fill?

 

It's not like he was signing guys for $217M/7 or $110M/5.

[moonslav59]

Whatever. This coming from the Mater of quotes he clearly doesn’t understand.

 

So now you’re trying to say you didn’t mean having those prospects meant DD didn’t empty the farm. Despite that being exactly what we were talking about.

 

Face it. DD emptied the farm. You have yet to show otherwise…

 

Maybe if you word it like this, you two can agree:

 

DD emptied the farm of suspects.

[Old Red]

Again, what should be expected when you have $20M to spend year 1 with 15 slots to fill, $20M to spend year 2 with 12 slots to fill and $40M to spend year 3 with 9 slots to fill?

 

It's not like he was signing guys for $217M/7 or $110M/5.

Same old response over, and over again. I guess you kind of have to when you can’t go to Bloom’s track record.

[moonslav59]

Sox sign Jake Faria to a minor league deal.

[moonslav59]

Same old response over, and over again. I guess you kind of have to when you can’t go to Bloom’s track record.

 

Keep calling facts "spin." Narrow-mindedness seems to be your strength. Go with it.

[moonslav59]

I look at this list -- not with disdain for the performance of the players -- but with distaste with how Bloom operates. I count 18 different guys, and most of them came and went, almost as if Bloom was playing his own little game of building up and tearing down rosters.

 

Only four of the 18 -- Kike, Verdugo, Whitlock and Pivetta have been kept as fulltimers -- but it's not like we couldn't use a lot of the others who really contributed: like home run hitters, good middle infielders who really liked Boston, and a starting pitcher with 3+ WAR (and please don't bother reiterating the value of saving a mil here by dumping a guy for someone comparable there -- we root for Boston).

 

As a longtime baseball fan who grew up identifying with core players on Red Sox teams good and bad, I'm just not into disposable acquisitions that we use up and then let leave when they want market wages for what they've accomplished.

 

So, we keep Beni and not sign Renfroe.

 

Do we keep JBJ after 2020, because he was one of our core players and was coming off a decent season?

 

Should we have kept Kimbrell, Kelly before 2019? How about ERod? Porcello?

 

How would you cut $60M from the 2019 budget and still keep all our favorite players?

 

I wish we could have, too.

 

I just don't blame Bloom for the mandates.

[dgalehouse]

This is the " disarray " that Dombrowski left for Bloom : Betts, Benintendi, JBJ, Devers, Bogaerts, J.D. Martinez, Vazquez, Sale, Eovaldi, E-Rod, Price, Barnes, Brasier, Workman and others. All that are left now are Devers, Sale and Brasier.

[Old Red]

This is the " disarray " that Dombrowski left for Bloom : Betts, Benintendi, JBJ, Devers, Bogaerts, J.D. Martinez, Vazquez, Sale, Eovaldi, E-Rod, Price, Barnes, Brasier, Workman and others. All that are left now are Devers, Sale and Brasier.

 

Exactly, and there were more reasons then to sign Betts with proven ML talent around him then there is now signing Raffy with the hope that some of the prospects/suspects work out.

[moonslav59]

Not that this has anything to do with how well the Sox do this year, but answer these questions, if you wish...

 

Who does better in 2023?

 

McGuire or Vaz?

Wong or Plawecki?

2023 Devers or 2022 Devers?

2023 Dugo or 2022 Dugo?

2023 Kike or 2022 Kike?

2023 Kike or 2021 Kike?

Yoshida or Bogey?

Turner or JD?

Duvall or Renfroe? (Just threw that one in there.)

 

Kluber or Nate?

Whitlock as a SP or the 2022 Wacha?

Bello as a SP or the 2022 Hill?

2023 Schreiber or 2022 Schreiber?

Martin or the 2022 Schreiber?

Jansen or the 2022 Houck?

J Rodriguez or Strahm?

Sale or the 2019 Sale (147 IP 4.40 ERA)?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

This is the " disarray " that Dombrowski left for Bloom : Betts, Benintendi, JBJ, Devers, Bogaerts, J.D. Martinez, Vazquez, Sale, Eovaldi, E-Rod, Price, Barnes, Brasier, Workman and others. All that are left now are Devers, Sale and Brasier.

 

Thank you for bring up the list with equal mehs to busts than stars, and not even thinking about their cost.

 

And, you keep acting like keeping Betts was more Bloom's fault than DD's. Talk about spin.

[moonslav59]

Exactly, and there were more reasons then to sign Betts with proven ML talent around him then there is now signing Raffy with the hope that some of the prospects/suspects work out.

 

And not signing Betts was Bloom's fault?

 

Talk about corkscrewing to the earth's core.

 

The hole you guys have dug is immense.

[Old Red]

And not signing Betts was Bloom's fault?

 

Talk about corkscrewing to the earth's core.

 

The hole you guys have dug is immense.

 

Did I say it was Bloom’s fault for not signing Betts?No I did not, but once again you are trying to find something that is not there. I was talking about Bloom’s Mookie bet when he was trying to shout down the boo birds when they were saying they wanted DD back, and he looked like an Ass Clown doing it. LMAO. Priceless.

[Old Red]

Thank you for bring up the list with equal mehs to busts than stars, and not even thinking about their cost.

 

And, you keep acting like keeping Betts was more Bloom's fault than DD's. Talk about spin.

You worry about the cost for everyone in RSN, so no one else has to.

[dgalehouse]

Thank you for bring up the list with equal mehs to busts than stars, and not even thinking about their cost.

 

And, you keep acting like keeping Betts was more Bloom's fault than DD's. Talk about spin.

 

Sorry for the spin. And all along I was thinking that Bloom actually traded Mookie. Feel free to use your imagination and make up any scenario that suits you.

[moonslav59]

Sorry for the spin. And all along I was thinking that Bloom actually traded Mookie. Feel free to use your imagination and make up any scenario that suits you.

 

I must be imagining the budget was cut by $60M.

 

I made it all up for spin.

 

Got me.

[moonslav59]

You worry about the cost for everyone in RSN, so no one else has to.

 

No. I actually pointed out not looking at the cost.

 

Man, you really cannot understand simple English.