A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[Bellhorn04]

Indeed, and I have a lo0ng list of "coulda done better" on Bloom that actually have merit.

 

To be honest, we always think it's our own opinions that have the most merit...

[mvp 78]

I think you've said you would not be surprised to see Mayer in MLB, this year, so wouldn't he count as a proispect other GMs would want, badly?

 

Bloom said he's not dealing Mayer.

[moonslav59]

My position is that Bloom is not as good as you make him out to be, and the most important aspect the WL record of the ML club has suffered, because of it, and, because of Bloom, and you can’t stand that I have that opinion. Botching, looking for that 3rd option in the fork in the road are just two of his standard operating procedures, and that try, and try again you can not overcome no matter how many columns you write that repeats itself over, and over again.

 

I don't think Bloom is as good as you think I feel he is. I end up defending him against specific assaults that have very little to do with him.

 

You can continue to think there was another fork in the road, but for someone who poo-poo's speculation more than anyone, you sure do your fair share.

[mvp 78]

Agreed, but it still seems like a select few posters really want to embrace his analysis, almost- and I stress the word almost- like they want the farm to fail, so we fire Bloom and maybe they can strut around saying, "I told you they were all just suspects."

 

Yes, that's how it works around here. Some people just want Bloom to be the fall guy. They are actively rooting against him.

 

I just want the Sox to be good. I don't care if Bloom stays or goes. I want the Sox to commit to having a strong farm system and a playoff caliber MLB team that isn't draining the farm for nonsense.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

To be honest, we always think it's our own opinions that have the most merit...

 

If I agree with you, then you'd be wrong.

[mvp 78]

To be honest, we always think it's our own opinions that have the most merit...

 

Right, when it's only MY opinions that should have the most merit around here.

[Old Red]

Yes, that's how it works around here. Some people just want Bloom to be the fall guy. They are actively rooting against him.

 

I just want the Sox to be good. I don't care if Bloom stays or goes. I want the Sox to commit to having a strong farm system and a playoff caliber MLB team that isn't draining the farm for nonsense.

 

When was the farm drained for nonsense? Sale? Kimbrel?

[notin]

Bloom said he's not dealing Mayer.

 

Bloom says lots of things…

[notin]

Right, when it's only MY opinions that should have the most merit around here.

 

Maybe the ones regarding Bobby Grich…

[moonslav59]

To be honest, we always think it's our own opinions that have the most merit...

 

Certainly true. That doesn't mean thinking there were several more options for trading Betts with half-Price out there has merit.

 

Conflating that specific trade with JH could have spent more, to me, it total BS thinking, but maybe that's just me. I know I'm often in the minority and can be ornery at time.

[mvp 78]

When was the farm drained for nonsense? Sale? Kimbrel?

 

Deals for high end talent like Sale and Kimbrel are fine to me. I don't think it's worthwhile to churn through your farm depth for Pomeranz, Thornburg and guys like that.

[notin]

Deals for high end talent like Sale and Kimbrel are fine to me. I don't think it's worthwhile to churn through your farm depth for Pomeranz, Thornburg and guys like that.

 

I would have added Carson Smith, but we only gave up Wade Miley, whom nobody liked anyway…

[Old Red]

Deals for high end talent like Sale and Kimbrel are fine to me. I don't think it's worthwhile to churn through your farm depth for Pomeranz, Thornburg and guys like that.

 

Thornburg was decent at the time, but sucked for the Sox.

[mvp 78]

Maybe the ones regarding Bobby Grich…

 

Everyone talks about Lou Whitaker needing to get in the HOF. Yes, hard agree! Grich first though.

[Bellhorn04]

Deals for high end talent like Sale and Kimbrel are fine to me. I don't think it's worthwhile to churn through your farm depth for Pomeranz, Thornburg and guys like that.

 

On the other hand, our pitching was very thin when DD took over.

[moonslav59]

Yes, that's how it works around here. Some people just want Bloom to be the fall guy. They are actively rooting against him.

 

I just want the Sox to be good. I don't care if Bloom stays or goes. I want the Sox to commit to having a strong farm system and a playoff caliber MLB team that isn't draining the farm for nonsense.

 

All true, and if dumping Bloom makes us better or would make us better, I'd be in the front of the line.

 

The farm building aspect is all speculation, as it always has been. It looks good on paper to almost everyone but Law & his followers, but we all know there are countless examples of good farms not ending up so good, and vice versa.

 

The DD farm situation is a prime example. Most felt he inherited a great farm and squandered it, but the ring won made it worth it. When you go back and look, many of the "studs" he traded away fizzled or got hurt, He kept the right one, in Devers, but the 5 year lull in farm help is a big reason for the team's decline.

 

Then, DD was slammed for handing Bloom an empty and unpromising farm, but we've seen some promise nobody felt was possible. Half our best prospects and recent grads are DD's prospects.

 

It does show, it's hard to know, but I feel better knowing many experts feel our farm has greatly improved. It's my biggest reason for having an optimistic view about the team and its direction.

[moonslav59]

Thornburg was decent at the time, but sucked for the Sox.

 

Yup, and Travis Shaw kinda sucked for us, then did better after the trade.

 

Kinda like Downs was a decent prospect when we traded for him, but sucked for the Sox.

[moonslav59]

On the other hand, our pitching was very thin when DD took over.

 

Ben might still be here had he signed Scherzer and not Pablito & HRam.

[notin]

When was the farm drained for nonsense? Sale? Kimbrel?

 

Saying the farm system wasn’t drained is going into denial. A top 5 farm system dropped down to a bottom 5 farm system with the Sox only promoting Benintendi and who else to Boston?

[Bellhorn04]

The DD farm situation is a prime example. Most felt he inherited a great farm and squandered it, but the ring won made it worth it. When you go back and look, many of the "studs" he traded away fizzled or got hurt, He kept the right one, in Devers, but the 5 year lull in farm help is a big reason for the team's decline.

 

Do "most" really feel he "squandered" the farm? I don't think so.

[Bellhorn04]

Saying the farm system wasn’t drained is going into denial. A top 5 farm system dropped down to a bottom 5 farm system with the Sox only promoting Benintendi and who else to Boston?

 

Sure, but you can justify every trade he made. The vast majority were for pitching.

[mvp 78]

All true, and if dumping Bloom makes us better or would make us better, I'd be in the front of the line.

 

The farm building aspect is all speculation, as it always has been. It looks good on paper to almost everyone but Law & his followers, but we all know there are countless examples of good farms not ending up so good, and vice versa.

 

The DD farm situation is a prime example. Most felt he inherited a great farm and squandered it, but the ring won made it worth it. When you go back and look, many of the "studs" he traded away fizzled or got hurt, He kept the right one, in Devers, but the 5 year lull in farm help is a big reason for the team's decline.

 

Then, DD was slammed for handing Bloom an empty and unpromising farm, but we've seen some promise nobody felt was possible. Half our best prospects and recent grads are DD's prospects.

 

It does show, it's hard to know, but I feel better knowing many experts feel our farm has greatly improved. It's my biggest reason for having an optimistic view about the team and its direction.

 

When Dombrowski took over, he started his first offseason with:

Moncada

Devers

Espinoza

Margot

Benintendi

Kopech

 

Some high end talent, but it really dropped off after that. #10 in the system was Deven Marrero. After '16/'17 promotions and the Sale trade, the system really didn't have much left to crow about that was ready to contribute in the near future.

 

The system was best when run under Theo and hasn't really reached those heights since.

[mvp 78]

On the other hand, our pitching was very thin when DD took over.

 

Never really been the Sox' strongsuit. Theo did an ok job when Paplebon/Lester/Buchholz were pushed through.

[Bellhorn04]

When Dombrowski took over, he started his first offseason with:

Moncada

Devers

Espinoza

Margot

Benintendi

Kopech

 

Some high end talent, but it really dropped off after that. #10 in the system was Deven Marrero. After '16/'17 promotions and the Sale trade, the system really didn't have much left to crow about that was ready to contribute in the near future.

 

The system was best when run under Theo and hasn't really reached those heights since.

 

True, it's been a mad roller coaster ride since the post-2011 purge.

[mvp 78]

Do "most" really feel he "squandered" the farm? I don't think so.

 

It's not "squandered" if you are using it on top tier players like Sale and Kimbrel. I can defend those moves. I can't defend the lesser moves that also took its toll.

[Bellhorn04]

It's not "squandered" if you are using it on top tier players like Sale and Kimbrel. I can defend those moves. I can't defend the lesser moves that also took its toll.

 

I can defend all of them. I mean, I don't think any of them were frivolous...some just didn't work out.

[Old Red]

All true, and if dumping Bloom makes us better or would make us better, I'd be in the front of the line.

 

The farm building aspect is all speculation, as it always has been. It looks good on paper to almost everyone but Law & his followers, but we all know there are countless examples of good farms not ending up so good, and vice versa.

 

The DD farm situation is a prime example. Most felt he inherited a great farm and squandered it, but the ring won made it worth it. When you go back and look, many of the "studs" he traded away fizzled or got hurt, He kept the right one, in Devers, but the 5 year lull in farm help is a big reason for the team's decline.

 

Then, DD was slammed for handing Bloom an empty and unpromising farm, but we've seen some promise nobody felt was possible. Half our best prospects and recent grads are DD's prospects.

 

It does show, it's hard to know, but I feel better knowing many experts feel our farm has greatly improved. It's my biggest reason for having an optimistic view about the team and its direction.

DD squandered the farm? Getting Kimbrel, and Sale was nowhere near a squander, and saying most felt is was squandered is an over exaggeration. Even Moncada has not lived up to the hype.

[mvp 78]

I can defend all of them. I mean, I don't think any of them were frivolous...some just didn't work out.

 

The Drew Pomeranz deal was an obvious bad idea from day one. Traded for a guy with injury concerns who had an unsustainable ERA that most of us noticed at the time (2.47 ERA, 3.61 xFIP). He was dealt for a top tier prospect and was barely replacement level with BOS.

 

The Thornburg trade made sense in theory, but they vastly overpaid for him.

[Bellhorn04]

The Drew Pomeranz deal was an obvious bad idea from day one. Traded for a guy with injury concerns who had an unsustainable ERA that most of us noticed at the time (2.47 ERA, 3.61 xFIP). He was dealt for a top tier prospect and was barely replacement level with BOS.

 

The Thornburg trade made sense in theory, but they vastly overpaid for him.

 

OK, but there was no lasting toll for either of those, in terms of talent surrendered. Shaw turned out to be the biggest loss, for 2 years...

[moonslav59]

Saying the farm system wasn’t drained is going into denial. A top 5 farm system dropped down to a bottom 5 farm system with the Sox only promoting Benintendi and who else to Boston?

 

DD traded 20 prospects who had once been top 20 in the system. The fact that many never came close to expectations or had dropped in the rankings before being traded, does not take away from the fact that a ton of prospects were traded.

 

Thankfully, he kept the one blue-chipper, Devers. I think only Matt Barnes was a prospect DD inherited and was still around when he left. I could be wrong, here.

 

Players he added through the draft and IFA are shockingly promising:

 

Houck & Crawford (graduated)

Casas

Murphy

Rafaela

Mata

Wikelman

Paulino

Walter

Perales