Cora is first half AL manager of the year

[jacksonianmarch]

I said it last year and he didn't win. I will say it again this year. Cora brought a ramshackle team to within 2 games of the WS last year. He watched as two of its biggest power threats left (Schwarber and Renfroe) and got replaced with wet noodle Bradley and Trevor Story in the lineup. His pen is made of swiss cheese. He never got a closer. He lost a reliable starter in ERod and was replaced with a guy who has been a juggs machine for the past 3 years (Wacha) and one of the only players in the league older than me in Hill. His team came out flat out of the gate. He has had stretches with 4 OD predicted starters on the IL and had to dip down into the depths of a pretty barren upper minors to fill in and he still has this team as a WC1. All the while, he has watched Kike go from AS caliber player to injured, Xander and JD lose their power, and Bobby D turn back into a windmill. And yet they still have fight, they still win games. The Yanks were poised to sweep them. Game 3 was a game they should have lost. Game 4, the Yanks had 2 4 run leads and instead, that team kept fighting. That is Cora. Doesn't matter how bad the team is, they will run through a wall for him. And for me, he edges out Boone as MOY in 2022. Boone is probably #2 but he hasnt had nearly the s*** go wrong Cora has

[Bellhorn04]

Cora is my man, but I expect to see a fair amount of naysaying here too LOL

[mvp 78]

Cora is my man, but I expect to see a fair amount of naysaying here too LOL

 

If they weren't sooo horrendous in April...

[Kimmi]

I said it last year and he didn't win. I will say it again this year. Cora brought a ramshackle team to within 2 games of the WS last year. He watched as two of its biggest power threats left (Schwarber and Renfroe) and got replaced with wet noodle Bradley and Trevor Story in the lineup. His pen is made of swiss cheese. He never got a closer. He lost a reliable starter in ERod and was replaced with a guy who has been a juggs machine for the past 3 years (Wacha) and one of the only players in the league older than me in Hill. His team came out flat out of the gate. He has had stretches with 4 OD predicted starters on the IL and had to dip down into the depths of a pretty barren upper minors to fill in and he still has this team as a WC1. All the while, he has watched Kike go from AS caliber player to injured, Xander and JD lose their power, and Bobby D turn back into a windmill. And yet they still have fight, they still win games. The Yanks were poised to sweep them. Game 3 was a game they should have lost. Game 4, the Yanks had 2 4 run leads and instead, that team kept fighting. That is Cora. Doesn't matter how bad the team is, they will run through a wall for him. And for me, he edges out Boone as MOY in 2022. Boone is probably #2 but he hasnt had nearly the s*** go wrong Cora has

 

Cora is my man as well, and I think he deserves a lot of credit. I have always believed that a manager has a large impact on the team in terms of what goes on off the field. I will add the controversy over non-vaccinated players not being able to play in Toronto as another issue that Cora has had to deal with.

 

At the same time, perhaps the Sox are doing as well as they are because they weren't as poorly constructed, including the 'barren upper minors' as you think they are.

[moonslav59]

Cora is my man as well, and I think he deserves a lot of credit. I have always believed that a manager has a large impact on the team in terms of what goes on off the field. I will add the controversy over non-vaccinated players not being able to play in Toronto as another issue that Cora has had to deal with.

 

At the same time, perhaps the Sox are doing as well as they are because they weren't as poorly constructed, including the 'barren upper minors' as you think they are.

 

I agree.

 

In 2021, Cora got credit for sticking with guys like Dalbec, Kike and Renfroe, who struggled early, but then he should get dinged for sticking with players like Dalbec, Diekman and others, this year.

 

Our 40 man roster is way stronger than 2020 and significantly stronger than 2021. This is the area Bloom addressed right out of the gate, and it shows.

 

Given a larger budget, Bloom was finally given the chance to address the top of the 26 man roster. So far, Story has been a letdown, despite his RBI total keeping him from being a total disaster out of the gate.

 

Wacha & Strahm carried us for a while. Last spring's waiver wire pick-up of Schreiber is looking like the type of "gems in the rough" finds the Rays were famous for making, when Bloom was there. Refsnyder is quickly proving to be a similar type find.

 

So far, we've seen 20 players get 3 or more PAs and 14 with 80 or more. The bottom 5 of those 14 have done much better than the bottom 5 of 2021.

 

PAs Player OPS

203 Cordero .713

127 Arroyo .640

101 Duran .763

91 Plawecki .487

80 Refsnyder .957

 

2021:

271 Marwin .567

173 Plawecki .737

136 Cordero .497

127 Santana .597

112 Duran .578

(+82 Chavis .549/ 75 Arauz .643)

 

The biggest gains have come from the SP'er pick-ups as compared to 2021's:

 

IP Pitcher ERA

2021

137 Richards 4.87

114 Perez 4.74

73 Whitlock 1.96

2022

71 R Hill 4.20

70 Wacha 2.69

36 Davis 2.48 (much pen than starter)

 

Pen

2021

62 Ottavino 4.21

53 Sawamura 3.06

37 Andriese 6.03 (DFA'd)

2022

36 Davis 2.48

31 Danish 4.02

31 Diekman 3.48

29 Schreiber 0.62

28 Strahm 3.58

25 Robles 5.84

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Cora is my man, but I expect to see a fair amount of naysaying here too LOL

 

Here, let me spew the misinformation, to spare us all later: he made Whitlock a starter, and used all those other crappy chokers in relief (the ones signed by his CBO), and played a bad outfielder at first base, and a back-up infielder in right field, and he still can't coach either how to catch a freaking pop-up.

[moonslav59]

Here, let me spew the misinformation, to spare us all later: he made Whitlock a starter, and used all those other crappy chokers in relief (the ones signed by his CBO), and played a bad outfielder at first base, and a back-up infielder in right field, and he still can't coach either how to catch a freaking pop-up.

 

How many more wins would we have had we played Dalbec at 1B FT, played Cordero in RF everytime Arroyo did, and gone with another crappy RP'er instead of the one he chose?

[mvp 78]

Here, let me spew the misinformation, to spare us all later: he made Whitlock a starter, and used all those other crappy chokers in relief (the ones signed by his CBO), and played a bad outfielder at first base, and a back-up infielder in right field, and he still can't coach either how to catch a freaking pop-up.

 

They should be able to catch a freaking pop-up before they meet Cora.

[moonslav59]

They should be able to catch a freaking pop-up before they meet Cora.

 

When none can catch a pop-up, how can Cora be blamed for choosing the wrong one?

[notin]

Hated and still hate all the Houck/Hill stuff. But there is no denying the results…

[moonslav59]

Hated and still hate all the Houck/Hill stuff. But there is no denying the results…

 

Did it work?

[Old Red]

Here, let me spew the misinformation, to spare us all later: he made Whitlock a starter, and used all those other crappy chokers in relief (the ones signed by his CBO), and played a bad outfielder at first base, and a back-up infielder in right field, and he still can't coach either how to catch a freaking pop-up.

 

As you know my biggest complaint about Cora was to not make Whitlock the closer on day 1, and I’ll still contend that the Red Sox would have a better record if they did. I’m still not sold on Houck as the closer now, but I think he’s their best option at the moment, but it took Cora way to long to make it happen. Using Franchy Strange Glove at 1B, and Arroyo in RF I blame Bloom more for that, but Cora gets some blame as well. Outside of that with all the injuries they have had to the starting staff I think he has done a decent job to get them in postseason contention at the moment. If they make it good job, but if not to much time was spent figuring out the backend of the bullpen.

[harmony]

What about Seattle manager Scott Servais, whose team would be in the postseason for the first time since 2001 if the season ended today?

 

Three weeks ago the Mariners fell 10 games under .500 at 29-39 after losing four of five at home to the lowly Los Angeles Angels. Seattle has since won 16 of 19 as the M's await the returns of Mitch Haniger, Kyle Lewis, Jesse Winker and Taylor Trammell.

 

With an Opening Day payroll that ranked 22nd at about $94 million, the Mariners trail the Red Sox by two games with a projected easier schedule the remainder of the year.

[moonslav59]

What about Seattle manager Scott Servais, whose team would be in the postseason for the first time since 2001 if the season ended today?

 

Three weeks ago the Mariners fell 10 games under .500 at 29-39 after losing four of five at home to the lowly Los Angeles Angels. Seattle has since won 16 of 19 as the M's await the returns of Mitch Haniger, Kyle Lewis, Jesse Winker and Taylor Trammell.

 

With an Opening Day payroll of about $94 million that ranked 22nd, the Mariners trail the Red Sox by two games with a projected easier schedule the remainder of the year.

 

Maybe manager of the last 19 games of the year award.

[mvp 78]

Did it work?

 

Hill/Houck Piggyback Games

4/24 TBR Loss 2-5 (loss due to Valdez, not due to piggyback)

4/29 BAL Win 3-1

5/5 LAA Loss 0-8 (Houck gave up 7 runs)

5/19 SEA Loss 2-6 (Hill stunk early)

5/25 CHW Loss 1-3 (Sox had nearly twice the amount of runners and couldn't score)

 

It's hard to say if it was a great success. Quite the mixed bag. I think I would have personally rather just seen Houck in the closer's role or as a starter rather than just lumped in with hill.

[mvp 78]

What about Seattle manager Scott Servais, whose team would be in the postseason for the first time since 2001 if the season ended today?

 

Three weeks ago the Mariners fell 10 games under .500 at 29-39 after losing four of five at home to the lowly Los Angeles Angels. Seattle has since won 16 of 19 as the M's await the returns of Mitch Haniger, Kyle Lewis, Jesse Winker and Taylor Trammell.

 

With an Opening Day payroll that ranked 22nd at about $94 million, the Mariners trail the Red Sox by two games with a projected easier schedule the remainder of the year.

 

They needed to expand the playoffs by how many slots to sneak the Mariners in?

[Old Red]

Hill/Houck Piggyback Games

4/24 TBR Loss 2-5 (loss due to Valdez, not due to piggyback)

4/29 BAL Win 3-1

5/5 LAA Loss 0-8 (Houck gave up 7 runs)

5/19 SEA Loss 2-6 (Hill stunk early)

5/25 CHW Loss 1-3 (Sox had nearly twice the amount of runners and couldn't score)

 

It's hard to say if it was a great success. Quite the mixed bag. I think I would have personally rather just seen Houck in the closer's role or as a starter rather than just lumped in with hill.

 

Two bad inventions. Openers, and piggybackers.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Two bad inventions. Openers, and piggybackers.

 

Cora invented neither. But I'm sure you know most organizations now make staff decisions based on entire departments that analyze the successes and failures of other trend-setters. Not too many Joe Morgan hunches or Grady Little refusals allowed any more...

 

If you want to blame him for agreeing to keep an open mind about other teams' ways -- or just agreeing in order to keep his job -- then have at it.

[mvp 78]

Two bad inventions. Openers, and piggybackers.

 

I think the opener idea is fine because it still allows you to use the opener throughout the week. He can still keep his normal relief workload. With Houck, if you're going to truly piggyback him with Hill, it prevents him from pitching the rest of the week. At most, maybe you get one other brief appearance out of him a few days later. If he's going 4 innings, just start him? It's like carrying 6 starters for a 5 man rotation. Doesn't seem to be the best use of a limited roster. Maybe it made sense early in the season when they could store extra players and they were just coming out of Spring Training?

[Maxbialystock]

As you know my biggest complaint about Cora was to not make Whitlock the closer on day 1, and I’ll still contend that the Red Sox would have a better record if they did. I’m still not sold on Houck as the closer now, but I think he’s their best option at the moment, but it took Cora way to long to make it happen. Using Franchy Strange Glove at 1B, and Arroyo in RF I blame Bloom more for that, but Cora gets some blame as well. Outside of that with all the injuries they have had to the starting staff I think he has done a decent job to get them in postseason contention at the moment. If they make it good job, but if not to much time was spent figuring out the backend of the bullpen.

 

I love it!!! Whitlock has exactly 1+ MLB seasons, 59 games, 122 IP, and zero, repeat, zero experience as a closer. Given that Whitlock had never closed before this season, no manager would have made him the closer on day 1.

 

At this point it's pretty obvious Cora has two much better choices to close: Houck, who won the position last month with 6 saves and no blown saves; and Schreiber, who statistically is probably the best reliever the Sox have had in years with an ERA of .62, a WHIP of .62, and a WAR (despite pitching just 29 innings) of +1.9 (3d highest on the team after Wacha and Pivetta).

 

Whitlock has the repertoire to be a starter. We saw that last year when he relieved for multiple innings. So, on a team that was desperate for starters at the beginning of the season, it made sense to give him a shot. His WAR to date, mostly based on starts, is +.9--not far off Eovaldi's (who has pitched 68 innings to Whitlock's 48) +1.3 and better than Hill's (with 70 IP) +.3.

 

So, contend all you want to, but there is zero evidence Whitlock as the closer from day 1 would have turned this season around. A better argument could be made that Cora took too long to give Houck the job, but Houck was also very effective--as Whitlock was last year--pitching 2 or more innings in relief.

[Old Red]

Cora invented neither. But I'm sure you know most organizations now make staff decisions based on entire departments that analyze the successes and failures of other trend-setters. Not too many Joe Morgan hunches or Grady Little refusals allowed any more...

 

If you want to blame him for agreeing to keep an open mind about other teams' ways -- or just agreeing in order to keep his job -- then have at it.

 

Never said Cora invented either, and the biggest thing I blame Cora for was to figure out the backend of the BP well before game 50+, or so.

[Maxbialystock]

Hill/Houck Piggyback Games

4/24 TBR Loss 2-5 (loss due to Valdez, not due to piggyback)

4/29 BAL Win 3-1

5/5 LAA Loss 0-8 (Houck gave up 7 runs)

5/19 SEA Loss 2-6 (Hill stunk early)

5/25 CHW Loss 1-3 (Sox had nearly twice the amount of runners and couldn't score)

 

It's hard to say if it was a great success. Quite the mixed bag. I think I would have personally rather just seen Houck in the closer's role or as a starter rather than just lumped in with hill.

 

I like the idea of Houck and Hill pitching in the same game, and I don't think Houck has the repertoire to start. But I agree with you that moving into the closer job was the best fit and probably should have happened sooner.

[Old Red]

I love it!!! Whitlock has exactly 1+ MLB seasons, 59 games, 122 IP, and zero, repeat, zero experience as a closer. Given that Whitlock had never closed before this season, no manager would have made him the closer on day 1.

 

At this point it's pretty obvious Cora has two much better choices to close: Houck, who won the position last month with 6 saves and no blown saves; and Schreiber, who statistically is probably the best reliever the Sox have had in years with an ERA of .62, a WHIP of .62, and a WAR (despite pitching just 29 innings) of +1.9 (3d highest on the team after Wacha and Pivetta).

 

Whitlock has the repertoire to be a starter. We saw that last year when he relieved for multiple innings. So, on a team that was desperate for starters at the beginning of the season, it made sense to give him a shot. His WAR to date, mostly based on starts, is +.9--not far off Eovaldi's (who has pitched 68 innings to Whitlock's 48) +1.3 and better than Hill's (with 70 IP) +.3.

 

So, contend all you want to, but there is zero evidence Whitlock as the closer from day 1 would have turned this season around. A better argument could be made that Cora took too long to give Houck the job, but Houck was also very effective--as Whitlock was last year--pitching 2 or more innings in relief.

 

You’ve given the same speel about Whitlock many times over, which we disagree on. Everyone has to start somewhere to be a closer rather it’s Pap, or Barnes, or Eck, or Smoltz just to name a few not named Houck. Whitlock would not have been in the rotation if Frail hadn’t gotten hurt, and only then when Houck wasn’t vaxed the first trip into Toronto. Once again your exaggerated account by saying Whitlock being the closer from day 1 would have turned the season around, because no one said that, but I still say the Red Sox would have more wins from blowing those late leads early in the season.

[mvp 78]

I like the idea of Houck and Hill pitching in the same game, and I don't think Houck has the repertoire to start. But I agree with you that moving into the closer job was the best fit and probably should have happened sooner.

 

Yes, without the 3rd pitch, he may not be a great fit for a starter's role. I thought in ST they should have transitioned Whitlock to SP and Houck to closer. We may get there eventually? Someday?

[moonslav59]

Hill/Houck Piggyback Games

4/24 TBR Loss 2-5 (loss due to Valdez, not due to piggyback)

4/29 BAL Win 3-1

5/5 LAA Loss 0-8 (Houck gave up 7 runs)

5/19 SEA Loss 2-6 (Hill stunk early)

5/25 CHW Loss 1-3 (Sox had nearly twice the amount of runners and couldn't score)

 

It's hard to say if it was a great success. Quite the mixed bag. I think I would have personally rather just seen Houck in the closer's role or as a starter rather than just lumped in with hill.

 

I think when you factor in not having Houck as the closer during this stretch, one could argue it was a failure.

 

We'll never know, if Houck would have done better than the closer by committee did, but it's hard ti imagine him doing any worse.

[Maxbialystock]

You’ve given the same speel about Whitlock many times over, which we disagree on. Everyone has to start somewhere to be a closer rather it’s Pap, or Barnes, or Eck, or Smoltz just to name a few not named Houck. Whitlock would not have been in the rotation if Frail hadn’t gotten hurt, and only then when Houck wasn’t vaxed the first trip into Toronto. Once again your exaggerated account by saying Whitlock being the closer from day 1 would have turned the season around, because no one said that, but I still say the Red Sox would have more wins from blowing those late leads early in the season.

 

Agree "turned the season around" is a bit of an exaggeration, but your version gives the Sox several uncounted wins instead of losses. Is it 8? If so, that puts the Sox neck and neck with the Astros for 2d best record in the AL and--you're going to just love this--4 games behind the Yankees. If you convert 1 of the losses to the Yankees, the margin is 3 games.

 

I completely agree a closer has to start sometime, but would challenge you to find just one who started closing on the first day (or first closeable game) of a season. Last season was Whitlock's first ever in MLB. And, for the record, he had 2 saves and 3 blown saves without ever being a closer.

 

At the beginning of the season Barnes and Robles had the experience as closers. Indeed, in the first game of the season, April 8, Whitlock was a reliever who pitched 2.1 innings and gave up 1 run. The 9th inning pitcher was--wait for it--Robles, who pitched a scoreless 9th. Then Dieckman and Brasier gave up the 1 unearned run in the 10th and Crawford the winning unearned run in the 11.

 

In his very next game, April 12, Whitlock pitched 4 scoreless innings in relief and the Sox beat the Tigers. Three outings later, April 23, he pitched 4 more scoreless innings as the starter vs. the Rays, a game the Sox lost in the 10th when Robles gave up an unearned run after the Sox failed to score (with a man on 2b) in the top of the 10th.

 

Indeed, for the month of April Whitlock pitched 16.2 innings--against the Yankees, Twins, Jays, Rays, and Tigers--while giving up 1 earned run for an ERA of 0.54. The Sox won 3 of those 6 games, and could have won 2 others (3-2 to the Rays and 1-0 to the Jays) if the Sox hitting had been better.

 

And you claim that Cora the idiot misused Whitlock in April? Do you even look at actual facts before you sound off? No, you don't. You simply make stuff up.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Maxbialystock

[moonslav59]

Agree "turned the season around" is a bit of an exaggeration, but your version gives the Sox several uncounted wins instead of losses. Is it 8? If so, that puts the Sox neck and neck with the Astros for 2d best record in the AL and--you're going to just love this--4 games behind the Yankees. If you convert 1 of the losses to the Yankees, the margin is 3 games.

 

I completely agree a closer has to start sometime, but would challenge you to find just one who started closing on the first day (or first closeable game) of a season. Last season was Whitlock's first ever in MLB. And, for the record, he had 2 saves and 3 blown saves without ever being a closer.

 

At the beginning of the season Barnes and Robles had the experience as closers. Indeed, in the first game of the season, April 8, Whitlock was a reliever who pitched 2.1 innings and gave up 1 run. The 9th inning pitcher was--wait for it--Robles, who pitched a scoreless 9th. Then Dieckman and Brasier gave up the 1 unearned run in the 10th and Crawford the winning unearned run in the 11.

 

In his very next game, April 12, Whitlock pitched 4 scoreless innings in relief and the Sox beat the Tigers. Three outings later, April 23, he pitched 4 more scoreless innings as the starter vs. the Rays, a game the Sox lost in the 10th when Robles gave up an unearned run after the Sox failed to score (with a man on 2b) in the top of the 10th.

 

Indeed, for the month of April Whitlock pitched 16.2 innings--against the Yankees, Twins, Jays, Rays, and Tigers--while giving up 1 earned run for an ERA of 0.54. The Sox won 3 of those 6 games, and could have won 2 others (3-2 to the Rays and 1-0 to the Jays) if the Sox hitting had been better.

 

And you claim that Cora the idiot misused Whitlock in April? Do you even look at actual facts before you sound off? No, you don't. You simply make stuff up.

 

It's all "eye test."

[notin]

Did it work?

 

I can argue that it didn’t…

[Kimmi]

I agree.

 

In 2021, Cora got credit for sticking with guys like Dalbec, Kike and Renfroe, who struggled early, but then he should get dinged for sticking with players like Dalbec, Diekman and others, this year.

 

Our 40 man roster is way stronger than 2020 and significantly stronger than 2021. This is the area Bloom addressed right out of the gate, and it shows.

 

Given a larger budget, Bloom was finally given the chance to address the top of the 26 man roster. So far, Story has been a letdown, despite his RBI total keeping him from being a total disaster out of the gate.

 

Wacha & Strahm carried us for a while. Last spring's waiver wire pick-up of Schreiber is looking like the type of "gems in the rough" finds the Rays were famous for making, when Bloom was there. Refsnyder is quickly proving to be a similar type find.

 

So far, we've seen 20 players get 3 or more PAs and 14 with 80 or more. The bottom 5 of those 14 have done much better than the bottom 5 of 2021.

 

PAs Player OPS

203 Cordero .713

127 Arroyo .640

101 Duran .763

91 Plawecki .487

80 Refsnyder .957

 

2021:

271 Marwin .567

173 Plawecki .737

136 Cordero .497

127 Santana .597

112 Duran .578

(+82 Chavis .549/ 75 Arauz .643)

 

The biggest gains have come from the SP'er pick-ups as compared to 2021's:

 

IP Pitcher ERA

2021

137 Richards 4.87

114 Perez 4.74

73 Whitlock 1.96

2022

71 R Hill 4.20

70 Wacha 2.69

36 Davis 2.48 (much pen than starter)

 

Pen

2021

62 Ottavino 4.21

53 Sawamura 3.06

37 Andriese 6.03 (DFA'd)

2022

36 Davis 2.48

31 Danish 4.02

31 Diekman 3.48

29 Schreiber 0.62

28 Strahm 3.58

25 Robles 5.84

 

 

Good info Moon.

 

Bloom is not making any loud splashes (other than Story), but that doesn't mean he hasn't put together a good team with some pretty good depth.

[Kimmi]

What about Seattle manager Scott Servais, whose team would be in the postseason for the first time since 2001 if the season ended today?

 

Three weeks ago the Mariners fell 10 games under .500 at 29-39 after losing four of five at home to the lowly Los Angeles Angels. Seattle has since won 16 of 19 as the M's await the returns of Mitch Haniger, Kyle Lewis, Jesse Winker and Taylor Trammell.

 

With an Opening Day payroll that ranked 22nd at about $94 million, the Mariners trail the Red Sox by two games with a projected easier schedule the remainder of the year.

 

You have to be excited about your Mariners!

 

Servais certainly deserves consideration for MOY at this point in the year.