How much would you offer Devers?

[jacksonianmarch]

The first year of his extension would be 2024. If the team hasn't turned the corner by then, Bloom has messed up.

 

I think it has ENTIRELY to do with the next 4 weeks of sox baseball. If the sox go on a tear and get back into contention (only 5 games back of TOR for 6th spot), then Bloom cannot really blow things up. I know you guys don't like Bloom right now, but the guy is a MASTER trader. If given the chance to deal off an ace and three silver sluggers, the returns will end up being massive. If he can deal these guys off, then by 2024 the team will not only be better, it should be arrow straight up and would be a good time to reinvest. Maybe that is when you sign Devers as a FA

[moonslav59]

Careful, that's starting to remind me of how you used to post chris freakin' sale.....

 

Again, your reading skills are lacking. I posted...

 

"Freakin' Chris Sale!"

 

from day one (LOL!)

[moonslav59]

I think it has ENTIRELY to do with the next 4 weeks of sox baseball. If the sox go on a tear and get back into contention (only 5 games back of TOR for 6th spot), then Bloom cannot really blow things up. I know you guys don't like Bloom right now, but the guy is a MASTER trader. If given the chance to deal off an ace and three silver sluggers, the returns will end up being massive. If he can deal these guys off, then by 2024 the team will not only be better, it should be arrow straight up and would be a good time to reinvest. Maybe that is when you sign Devers as a FA

 

On a team that can spend over $200M, every year, we can afford to keep 1 or 2 of our best players for the long haul.

 

Devers will be younger than most FAs, so replacing him in kind, via free agency, later on makes little sense for 2024 and beyond. Just extend him or re-sign him. He's worth it.

 

(Plus, don't give the Yanks a chance to get this lefty!)

[jacksonianmarch]

On a team that can spend over $200M, every year, we can afford to keep 1 or 2 of our best players for the long haul.

 

Devers will be younger than most FAs, so replacing him in kind, via free agency, later on makes little sense for 2024 and beyond. Just extend him or re-sign him. He's worth it.

 

(Plus, don't give the Yanks a chance to get this lefty!)

 

Timing does line up, doesn't it. Donaldson is done after 23.

[JDavis76]

1. Pivetta does not suck.

2. If you went by injury history, the Yanks would be in need of a rebuild, now.

3. We finally have several decent pitching prospects in AA and AAA.

4. Sale was is not "very injury prone."

5. $110M goes a long way when adding pitchers.

 

Umm, pivetta does suck and the numbers back it up. sale has certainly shown an inability to stay on the field and $110M doesn't go that far when there are many other holes to fill as well.

[redsoxrules]

Fangraphs had him worth $28M last year.

 

And that's why I don't believe in these Fangraphs advance analytics. Do you really think Betts was worth that last year?

[Bellhorn04]

On a team that can spend over $200M, every year, we can afford to keep 1 or 2 of our best players for the long haul.

 

Devers will be younger than most FAs, so replacing him in kind, via free agency, later on makes little sense for 2024 and beyond. Just extend him or re-sign him. He's worth it.

 

(Plus, don't give the Yanks a chance to get this lefty!)

 

Oddly enough Raffy does not have good numbers at YS - .674 OPS/45 K's/8 BB's.

[Old Red]

On a team that can spend over $200M, every year, we can afford to keep 1 or 2 of our best players for the long haul.

 

Devers will be younger than most FAs, so replacing him in kind, via free agency, later on makes little sense for 2024 and beyond. Just extend him or re-sign him. He's worth it.

 

(Plus, don't give the Yanks a chance to get this lefty!)

 

I’ve been saying for awhile now that I have these recurring nightmares of seeing Bogey, or Raffy in Yankee Pinstripes.Even worse seeing both.

[Bellhorn04]

And that's why I don't believe in these Fangraphs advance analytics. Do you really think Betts was worth that last year?

 

Those Fangraphs dollar figures are actually a simple calculation. They figure out the average dollar cost of all free agents per WAR. If that number is $8 mill and the player has 3 WAR, the dollar value is $24 mill. It reflects the high price of free agents and the fact that a lot of them bust.

[a700hitter]

And that's why I don't believe in these Fangraphs advance analytics. Do you really think Betts was worth that last year?

This is not a small market team. Value is different for the Red Sox. They have plenty of money and the highest priced tickets in the game. They need to retain the premium talent that they develop. This is not Tampa. The Red Sox should have had a core of Betts, Bogey and Devers well into the future.

[moonslav59]

Umm, pivetta does suck and the numbers back it up. sale has certainly shown an inability to stay on the field and $110M doesn't go that far when there are many other holes to fill as well.

 

Locking yourself into career numbers is missing the forest for the trees.

 

Players often take time to develop into decent pitchers.

 

He still walks too many batters, but he makes it up on allowing fewer hits. He was good last year and has been good the last 3 starts, this year. Don't let his first 4 starts and his career in Philly outweigh everything else.

 

Now, that being said, he can certainly revert to his old self, but he may not.

 

I never said Pivetta is great, but he does not suck. A 4.26 FIP since joining the Sox is pretty damn good for a 5th starter, and beats many team's number 3 and 4 starters.

[moonslav59]

Those Fangraphs dollar figures are actually a simple calculation. They figure out the average dollar cost of all free agents per WAR. If that number is $8 mill and the player has 3 WAR, the dollar value is $24 mill. It reflects the high price of free agents and the fact that a lot of them bust.

 

I think people forget it is free agent money, not pre-arb player money, and within the context of the debate about extending or re-signing Devers or replacing him with some other FA, the numbers are relevant.

 

.

[redsoxrules]

Those Fangraphs dollar figures are actually a simple calculation. They figure out the average dollar cost of all free agents per WAR. If that number is $8 mill and the player has 3 WAR, the dollar value is $24 mill. It reflects the high price of free agents and the fact that a lot of them bust.

 

So based on your logic Trout should be asking 80 Million a year and Bogey should be asking 40Million as he's pretty much a 5WAR player every year.

 

So you'd be OK then if the Sox offered Bogey 40Mil a year

[moonslav59]

This is not a small market team. Value is different for the Red Sox. They have plenty of money and the highest priced tickets in the game. They need to retain the premium talent that they develop. This is not Tampa. The Red Sox should have had a core of Betts, Bogey and Devers well into the future.

 

Losing 1 is understandable. Losing 2 is a shame. Losing 3 is unforgivable.

[moonslav59]

So based on your logic Trout should be asking 80 Million a year and Bogey should be asking 40Million as he's pretty much a 5WAR player every year.

 

So you'd be OK then if the Sox offered Bogey 40Mil a year

 

Who would be? he'll take $27M.

[Old Red]

Losing 1 is understandable. Losing 2 is a shame. Losing 3 is unforgivable.

 

Losing 3 it’s time for Henry to sell.

[redsoxrules]

Fangraphs had him worth $28M last year.

 

Betts wasn't even a top 50 player last year and you think he was worth that. I'm sorry but that's laughable

[JDavis76]

Locking yourself into career numbers is missing the forest for the trees.

 

Players often take time to develop into decent pitchers.

 

He still walks too many batters, but he makes it up on allowing fewer hits. He was good last year and has been good the last 3 starts, this year. Don't let his first 4 starts and his career in Philly outweigh everything else.

 

Now, that being said, he can certainly revert to his old self, but he may not.

 

I never said Pivetta is great, but he does not suck. A 4.26 FIP since joining the Sox is pretty damn good for a 5th starter, and beats many team's number 3 and 4 starters.

 

Take time? He's 29 yrs old and will be 30 on Opening Day.

 

And you can cherry pick whatever 3 game stretch you want if it makes you feel better. This is a team that needs front end starters, not another "pretty damn good for a 5th starter"

Edited May 13, 2022 by JDavis76

[Bellhorn04]

Take time? He's 29 yrs old.

 

And you can cherry pick whatever 3 game stretch you want if it makes you feel better. This is a team that needs front end starters, not another "pretty damn good for a 5th starter"

 

Every teams needs a 5th starter, too.

[JDavis76]

Every teams needs a 5th starter, too.

 

They certainly do, but this rotation has plenty of question marks ahead of the 5th starter.

[notin]

The thing that bothers me here is the idea that someone is "too expensive" for Boston. He may be poorly timed to stay in Boston. The sox might be in a rebuild when his FA comes up. Does it make sense to spend the first 2-3 years of a mega extension building something?

 

 

1. Doubtful the Sox go into a prolonged rebuild, just like the Yankees didn’t after being deadline sellers in 2016.

2. Rebuilding teams still have to sign marquee names when they’ve available.

3. Teams that do go into prolonged rebuilds are usually driven by finances. The Sox have resources and things can turn around fast in MLB since the difference between the best winning percentage and the worst winning percentage is only around 20%…

[mvp 78]

1. Doubtful the Sox go into a prolonged rebuild, just like the Yankees didn’t after being deadline sellers in 2016.

2. Rebuilding teams still have to sign marquee names when they’ve available.

3. Teams that do go into prolonged rebuilds are usually driven by finances. The Sox have resources and things can turn around fast in MLB since the difference between the best winning percentage and the worst winning percentage is only around 20%…

 

Yankees fans were right to be excited about the baby Yankees in 2017. Red Sox fans probably have good reason to feel excited about the baby Sox coming through their org.

[mvp 78]

Betts wasn't even a top 50 player last year and you think he was worth that. I'm sorry but that's laughable

 

I said Fangraphs thinks that.

[mvp 78]

And that's why I don't believe in these Fangraphs advance analytics. Do you really think Betts was worth that last year?

 

I really think Fangraphs believes he was worth $28M last year.

 

I really think he hasn't been a bust yet. If he was on the Sox, they would have been a better team last season and may have made the WS again.

[Bellhorn04]

I really think Fangraphs believes he was worth $28M last year.

 

They only calculate what the player is worth compared to all the other free agents.

[Hitch]

The thing that bothers me here is the idea that someone is "too expensive" for Boston. He may be poorly timed to stay in Boston. The sox might be in a rebuild when his FA comes up. Does it make sense to spend the first 2-3 years of a mega extension building something?

 

There will be no 2-3 years building something. We will be ready to go next year, regardless of this.

[moonslav59]

Take time? He's 29 yrs old and will be 30 on Opening Day.

 

And you can cherry pick whatever 3 game stretch you want if it makes you feel better. This is a team that needs front end starters, not another "pretty damn good for a 5th starter"

 

I picked his entire time with the Sox. You want to highlight his Philly career and first 4 starts of 2022. We both are cherry-picking but one is lying about the other’s sample size choice.

[moonslav59]

Losing 3 it’s time for Henry to sell.

 

Not as long as he keeps spending big and winning every few years.

Edited May 13, 2022 by moonslav59

[redsoxrules]

I really think Fangraphs believes he was worth $28M last year.

 

I really think he hasn't been a bust yet. If he was on the Sox, they would have been a better team last season and may have made the WS again.

 

It's too soon to say he's bust but you can't say it doesn't look good as these are his prime years so these are the years everyone said he would mash. I just can't see him being much productive in another 2-3 years. So if he's not mashing right now it's not looking good. Remember that a lot of his WAR comes from his D and Baserunning. Those don't age well past 30.

[mvp 78]

It's too soon to say he's bust but you can't say it doesn't look good as these are his prime years so these are the years everyone said he would mash. I just can't see him being much productive in another 2-3 years. So if he's not mashing right now it's not looking good. Remember that a lot of his WAR comes from his D and Baserunning. Those don't age well past 30.

 

None of his WAR came from D or running last season though. He had a negative dWAR and negative BsR due to the injury. His injury plagued season is what it will look like when he ages. With the offseason to rest, those numbers have ticked up a little this season.