Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

I understand a lot of the anti-DD sentiment, and yet...

 

-Which player that DD traded away do we miss?

-The 2021 team did fairly well. So are the failures of the 2022 and 2023 teams more on DD or Bloom?

 

He did keep "the right ones," whether he even knew who some of them were, or not.

 

Devers

Bello

Casas

Duran

Crawford

Houck

Maybe Rafaela, Perales and Wikelman

 

Some other question could be asked:

 

Are those 6-10 players enough to pass along after being in control for just over 4 years?

 

Was the budget sound and relatively free of sunken costs?

 

Did the core vet players passed along produce at expected levels, based on their previous production and advancing age?

 

Like I've said many times, I'm glad DD was our GM. That 3 year period capped off by a special 2018 season was worth every bit of the sacrifices we faced afterwards- starting in 2019.

 

[moonslav59]

Dear Lord. Stop moving the goalposts

 

I see it more as a moving post.

[Old Red]

No, I'm saying you didn't read my post about building "next year's Red Sox"... not next year's Drive or Seadogs or WooSox. I wasn't referring to drafts or farm development at all.

 

But as a fan of a mediocre major league club the past four years, I'd just like to see Boston's big league team fill any future holes with established MLB players who regularly play those positions.

 

Marwin's not a leftfielder, Arroyo's not a rightfielder, Schwarber's not a first baseman, and Franchy's not a big leaguer anywhere on defense. Some will also argue Kike's not a shortstop and Duvall isn't a centerfielder, because those aren't their best positions, either.

 

Bloom didn't invent square pegs in round holes. But in the past when we saw Hanley stumbling around in LF or Swihart getting injured and hurting his career out there, it seemed more outrageous. Now there are so many guys bumping into each other, misjudging plays and throwing to no one, fans are just inured... it's easier to just change the channel.

I would say this sums it up pretty well, and goes along with Cora saying it doesn’t matter how many prospects you have, or what the farm rankings is, but what you do in October, or as in the case of the Red Sox nothing. I’m

[Dipre]

Absolutely not the point he was trying to make, which by the way, wasn't the point he was trying to make in the first place. Lots of rambling. I'm not quite sure you two aren't the same poster, what with your rambling, noncommittal takes on things and terrible poetry.

[mvp 78]

But it's not. Henry's reluctance is the reason.

 

If they don't extend Sale early and sign Eovaldi, they can try to focus on extending Mookie while staying under the CBT.

[Old Red]

If they don't extend Sale early and sign Eovaldi, they can try to focus on extending Mookie while staying under the CBT.

 

I don’t think JH would have paid the money regardless. 10 years ago maybe.

[mvp 78]

I don’t think JH would have paid the money regardless. 10 years ago maybe.

 

Then why give similar money to Devers, a lesser player?

[Old Red]

Then why give similar money to Devers, a lesser player?

 

Devers was the last man standing off the Mookie, Bogy, and Raffy trio. If Mookie would have been the last man he might still be here depending if he wanted to, or not. Henry would have been crucified more than he is now, and Fenway may have been torn down by the fans if Raffy would have left town too.

[Bellhorn04]

If they don't extend Sale early and sign Eovaldi, they can try to focus on extending Mookie while staying under the CBT.

 

Nah, they had a ton of time to extend Mookie, they just didn't show him enough money. They signed the extensions with Sale and Bogaerts after they gave up on Mookie.

[dgalehouse]

The Red Sox traded Mookie Betts because they did not want to spend the money it would have taken to keep him. Plain and simple. For a proud, big market franchise it was a competitive and public relations blunder. The money is there. This year it is going to guys like Story and Kluber.

[Bellhorn04]

Then why give similar money to Devers, a lesser player?

 

You know the answers.

[Bellhorn04]

He did keep "the right ones," whether he even knew who some of them were, or not.

 

Devers

Bello

Casas

Duran

Crawford

Houck

Maybe Rafaela, Perales and Wikelman

 

Some other question could be asked:

 

Are those 6-10 players enough to pass along after being in control for just over 4 years?

 

Was the budget sound and relatively free of sunken costs?

 

Did the core vet players passed along produce at expected levels, based on their previous production and advancing age?

 

Like I've said many times, I'm glad DD was our GM. That 3 year period capped off by a special 2018 season was worth every bit of the sacrifices we faced afterwards- starting in 2019.

 

 

Your take on it has always been consistent and reasonable.

[moonslav59]

Your take on it has always been consistent and reasonable.

 

I had hoped "the sacrifices" would last maybe 2-3 years. I hoped the rebuilding the farm that would not be as easy with all the new rules and restrictions that hurt winning and high spending teams would happen, more quickly, but I think we have to give all those high pick HS players have to be given time to mature. For fans that are restless or only care about the here and now, that falls on their deaf ears, but to me, it could be the formation of the essential building blocks of the next winning era.

 

It sucked going 5 years with just one playoff trip. Nobody is enjoying this.

 

That being said, we choose to be doom and gloom or optimistic, or somewhere in between. I think expectations have a lot to do with the happiness/excitement meter of each fan. I've actually enjoyed watching all but a few games, this season. There were certainly some real stinkers, including last night's game, but many of our losses were closely fought battles that had something worthwhile to cheer for.

 

The season is not over, yet, but our backs are too the wall, and most of Sox Nation checking out for the year or releasing years of anger here and according to one poster all over "the big corner" that is Sox Nation.

 

I never expected others to accept the sacrifice that was sure to come, and it seems like those who refused to accept that hard times were coming, are the ones most angry, now. In the"live for the moment" society we have become, it's totally understandable and predictable. They take comfort in being in the majority, while eone even seems to celebrate being right about how much this year's team sucks, despite the fact that the "optimists" appear to be closer to predicting our win totals, this year than they did.

 

True, there is still plenty of time for us to lose over 81 games, and maybe that is something they can cheer for, now.

 

[mvp 78]

You know the answers.

 

Because Brooons fans yelled at him at the hockey game.

[mvp 78]

Devers was the last man standing off the Mookie, Bogy, and Raffy trio. If Mookie would have been the last man he might still be here depending if he wanted to, or not. Henry would have been crucified more than he is now, and Fenway may have been torn down by the fans if Raffy would have left town too.

 

Should have traded Devers and Xander then!

[mvp 78]

Nah, they had a ton of time to extend Mookie, they just didn't show him enough money. They signed the extensions with Sale and Bogaerts after they gave up on Mookie.

 

Shouldn't have given up on a future HOFer for a few "very good" players.

[Old Red]

Nah, they had a ton of time to extend Mookie, they just didn't show him enough money. They signed the extensions with Sale and Bogaerts after they gave up on Mookie.

 

If Mookie would have signed they wouldn’t have been stuck with the bad Sale deal.

[Old Red]

Should have traded Devers and Xander then!

 

Devers, and Bogey were still young players back then. They could, and should have kept 2 of them anyway.

[mvp 78]

Devers, and Bogey were still young players back then. They could, and should have kept 2 of them anyway.

 

Should have traded them and gotten more back AND still had Mookie. The Sox would be even better now.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

Nobody is enjoying this.

 

even seems to celebrate being right about how much this year's team sucks,

 

True, there is still plenty of time for us to lose over 81 games, and maybe that is something they can cheer for, now.

 

 

Moon, can you see how these can sound contradictory? As Sox fans, we're all disappointed... and all on this forum together. No one is happy to root for a last place team.

 

Some of us just express our angst in more graphic ways than others, but no one here should be disparaged from fellow fans for also feeling down about what we've witnessed during the Bloom Era on the parent MLB club that plays in Boston.

 

Some of us deal with it by wise-cracking. At least we have takes. Unfortunately, there are others who are so bitter they waste their posts mocking soxtalkers, using adjectives to insult. Maybe they could work on their own takes on the Red Sox... or at least mix in some vivid verbs along with their cliches (at least something that didn't get George Carlin banned by the FCC).

[mvp 78]

We could just talk about the Sox rationally, realize everyone has different valued perspectives and not have to constantly call each other out for imaginary internet points?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah...

[Old Red]

Should have traded them and gotten more back AND still had Mookie. The Sox would be even better now.

 

Trade good young home grown players to get more young players back? Mookie isn’t here today, because Bogey, and Raffy were on the team at the time. I haven’t heard anyone else suggest that Bogey, and Raffy should have been traded 4-5 years ago, and I’d be interested to see if others on here agree, or not. It wouldn’t make sense to me, and like I said that is not why Mookie isn’t here.

[moonslav59]

Moon, can you see how these can sound contradictory? As Sox fans, we're all disappointed... and all on this forum together. No one is happy to root for a last place team.

 

Some of us just express our angst in more graphic ways than others, but no one here should be disparaged from fellow fans for also feeling down about what we've witnessed during the Bloom Era on the parent MLB club that plays in Boston.

 

Some of us deal with it by wise-cracking. At least we have takes. Unfortunately, there are others who are so bitter they waste their posts mocking soxtalkers, using adjectives to insult. Maybe they could work on their own takes on the Red Sox... or at least mix in some vivid verbs along with their cliches (at least something that didn't get George Carlin banned by the FCC).

 

I don't see a contradiction on this.

 

I get how people express their disappointments in differing ways, especially on the game threads. Everyone has the right to express their opinions, even if way out there or is in a way that make me wonder about what being a fan means to them.

 

It does not surprise me that those who have been critical of the team management for years all but disappeared when the team was doing well, then come running from far and wide the minute we start struggling to puff out their chests and say "I told you so," without actually saying those words.

 

To me, it seems like at least one poster is celebrating being right about this team sucking, when we still have a winning record due to the more times we played pretty well.

 

We are not this bad. We are not as good as it looked like we were back a couple weeks ago, either. We are somewhere in between. It looks like we may end up with 80-84 wins. That's better than the naysayers projected, but no way can they take any enjoyment from that, of the fact that our future looks way brighter than it did before and after 2020. It's gotta be win now or nothing. I guess 29 teams have s***** GMs, every year, because now is all that matters.

 

Look, I get it. I've lived in this instant gratification society for over 60 years, and if I don't get what I want, it's gotta be someone else's fault. Throwing blame is the nation's new great pastime. Then, to top it, off they gloat that they are boast about being in the majority- like that makes them right and the minority wrong.

 

I'm really not trying to throw stones, although it certainly sounds like it, especially towards one poster. I'm not trying to say my way is better, or that I am above the disappointment and anger, either. I do feel differently about what being a good fan means, and say it when I feel it.

 

I know I am in a tiny minority in trying to see the good in each season and being somewhat content on feeling our future is looking brighter, so the here and now can be stomached more easily. It's just the gloating that makes me question why some even bother being a fan. I don't see what they get out of it.

 

This team I follow had a real tough situation 5 years ago. For many reasons, the walls came crumbling down. It's the basis for the blame game running amok. Some seem to enjoy wallowing in it. I guess I could say, good for them, but I don't really wish them good tiding on that twisted journey.

[Dipre]

We could just talk about the Sox rationally, realize everyone has different valued perspectives and not have to constantly call each other out for imaginary internet points?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah...

 

Framed.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't see a contradiction on this.

 

I get how people express their disappointments in differing ways, especially on the game threads. Everyone has the right to express their opinions, even if way out there or is in a way that make me wonder about what being a fan means to them.

 

It does not surprise me that those who have been critical of the team management for years all but disappeared when the team was doing well, then come running from far and wide the minute we start struggling to puff out their chests and say "I told you so," without actually saying those words.

 

To me, it seems like at least one poster is celebrating being right about this team sucking, when we still have a winning record due to the more times we played pretty well.

 

We are not this bad. We are not as good as it looked like we were back a couple weeks ago, either. We are somewhere in between. It looks like we may end up with 80-84 wins. That's better than the naysayers projected, but no way can they take any enjoyment from that, of the fact that our future looks way brighter than it did before and after 2020. It's gotta be win now or nothing. I guess 29 teams have s***** GMs, every year, because now is all that matters.

 

Look, I get it. I've lived in this instant gratification society for over 60 years, and if I don't get what I want, it's gotta be someone else's fault. Throwing blame is the nation's new great pastime. Then, to top it, off they gloat that they are boast about being in the majority- like that makes them right and the minority wrong.

 

I'm really not trying to throw stones, although it certainly sounds like it, especially towards one poster. I'm not trying to say my way is better, or that I am above the disappointment and anger, either. I do feel differently about what being a good fan means, and say it when I feel it.

 

I know I am in a tiny minority in trying to see the good in each season and being somewhat content on feeling our future is looking brighter, so the here and now can be stomached more easily. It's just the gloating that makes me question why some even bother being a fan. I don't see what they get out of it.

 

This team I follow had a real tough situation 5 years ago. For many reasons, the walls came crumbling down. It's the basis for the blame game running amok. Some seem to enjoy wallowing in it. I guess I could say, good for them, but I don't really wish them good tiding on that twisted journey.

 

Nobody here wants the team to suck, I can guarantee that much.

 

The apparent gloating is just another way of venting frustration. Some of it, of course, is an actual desire to see Bloom gone because of the disappointing results.

 

But it really looks like his job is safe through another year.

 

Year Five we really need to see some good results.

[mvp 78]

Nobody here wants the team to suck, I can guarantee that much.

 

The apparent gloating is just another way of venting frustration. Some of it, of course, is an actual desire to see Bloom gone because of the disappointing results.

 

But it really looks like his job is safe through another year.

 

Year Five we really need to see some good results.

 

Yeah, he needs to put his big boy pants on this offseason.

[Old Red]

I don't see a contradiction on this.

 

I get how people express their disappointments in differing ways, especially on the game threads. Everyone has the right to express their opinions, even if way out there or is in a way that make me wonder about what being a fan means to them.

 

It does not surprise me that those who have been critical of the team management for years all but disappeared when the team was doing well, then come running from far and wide the minute we start struggling to puff out their chests and say "I told you so," without actually saying those words.

 

To me, it seems like at least one poster is celebrating being right about this team sucking, when we still have a winning record due to the more times we played pretty well.

 

We are not this bad. We are not as good as it looked like we were back a couple weeks ago, either. We are somewhere in between. It looks like we may end up with 80-84 wins. That's better than the naysayers projected, but no way can they take any enjoyment from that, of the fact that our future looks way brighter than it did before and after 2020. It's gotta be win now or nothing. I guess 29 teams have s***** GMs, every year, because now is all that matters.

 

Look, I get it. I've lived in this instant gratification society for over 60 years, and if I don't get what I want, it's gotta be someone else's fault. Throwing blame is the nation's new great pastime. Then, to top it, off they gloat that they are boast about being in the majority- like that makes them right and the minority wrong.

 

I'm really not trying to throw stones, although it certainly sounds like it, especially towards one poster. I'm not trying to say my way is better, or that I am above the disappointment and anger, either. I do feel differently about what being a good fan means, and say it when I feel it.

 

I know I am in a tiny minority in trying to see the good in each season and being somewhat content on feeling our future is looking brighter, so the here and now can be stomached more easily. It's just the gloating that makes me question why some even bother being a fan. I don't see what they get out of it.

 

This team I follow had a real tough situation 5 years ago. For many reasons, the walls came crumbling down. It's the basis for the blame game running amok. Some seem to enjoy wallowing in it. I guess I could say, good for them, but I don't really wish them good tiding on that twisted journey.

 

You are not trying to throw stones? That is a BIG pile of BS. Old Red syndrome that lives in your mind rent free. You have been that way since I’ve been on here that I know of, and sure you have been that way since you have been on here. MVP told me he has had you on ignore before, and it wasn’t that long ago that you, and him did your best Seinfeld impression, and had an argument about nothing. You even had poof Bell all upset about it. I have stated this story before that it started with e when I first come on here when I stated I would not have rehired Cora, and I stated why. You took the BIG leap with it, and said I hated Cora. You apologized later on, but that wasn’t the problem. The problem was that you made to big leap to hate in the first place. I have shared that opinion many times face to face at least to 50 people, and one JJ to the conclusion that I hated Cora like you did. Some disagreed with me, but no hate was ever mentioned. I have mentioned before that I’m not a cheerleader, who waves Pom poms when things are going good, and just, because I only say something when things are bad to you means I’m a bad fan. You come on here all the time, and think you’re holier than thou like you are the Red Sox #1 fan, but yet you were the first one to bail last year when I stayed with them to the end. Just, because you post the most, and the month lengthy post doesn’t make you anything, and to say you are not throwing stones is once again BS, and you and everyone else knows it.

[moonslav59]

Nobody here wants the team to suck, I can guarantee that much.

 

 

Sure seems like one is happy to be right about them "sucking," although being over .500 is hardly that.

 

When someone complains about about everyone in management and more than half the players, why cheer for the team?

 

I get no sense of hope we do better. It's all, "see I told you, we'd suck, and Bloom is to blame." They disappeared when the team was doing well.

 

Okay, maybe they don't actually want us to suck, but the actions (or "eye test) tell me otherwise.

 

Just my opinion.

[moonslav59]

You are not trying to throw stones? That is a BIG pile of BS. Old Red syndrome that lives in your mind rent free. You have been that way since I’ve been on here that I know of, and sure you have been that way since you have been on here. MVP told me he has had you on ignore before, and it wasn’t that long ago that you, and him did your best Seinfeld impression, and had an argument about nothing. You even had poof Bell all upset about it. I have stated this story before that it started with e when I first come on here when I stated I would not have rehired Cora, and I stated why. You took the BIG leap with it, and said I hated Cora. You apologized later on, but that wasn’t the problem. The problem was that you made to big leap to hate in the first place. I have shared that opinion many times face to face at least to 50 people, and one JJ to the conclusion that I hated Cora like you did. Some disagreed with me, but no hate was ever mentioned. I have mentioned before that I’m not a cheerleader, who waves Pom poms when things are going good, and just, because I only say something when things are bad to you means I’m a bad fan. You come on here all the time, and think you’re holier than thou like you are the Red Sox #1 fan, but yet you were the first one to bail last year when I stayed with them to the end. Just, because you post the most, and the month lengthy post doesn’t make you anything, and to say you are not throwing stones is once again BS, and you and everyone else knows it.

 

Talk about total BS. I can't even begin to address all the lies and misinformation.

 

It's obvious to all you don't hate Cora, or Bloom, or JH, or...

 

lmao.

[Old Red]

Sure seems like one is happy to be right about them "sucking," although being over .500 is hardly that.

 

When someone complains about about everyone in management and more than half the players, why cheer for the team?

 

I get no sense of hope we do better. It's all, "see I told you, we'd suck, and Bloom is to blame." They disappeared when the team was doing well.

 

Okay, maybe they don't actually want us to suck, but the actions (or "eye test) tell me otherwise.

 

Just my opinion.

 

See you can’t resist., and you are not throwing stones?

Edited August 9, 2023 by Old Red