Fire Bloom .

[Bellhorn04]

...and is anyone really "freaking out" over this?

 

Well, I have seen more than one poster refer to the possibility of their head exploding.

[mvp 78]

And also - no pitching-related injuries in the past 3 years!!

 

I remember when Trey Ball had age and talent on his side. Henry Owens, too.

 

Both of them, unlike Song, were BA Top 100 prospects…

 

Ball wasn't a top 100 prospect, was he?

[moonslav59]

Well, I have seen more than one poster refer to the possibility of their head exploding.

 

:rolleyes:

[mvp 78]

The isn't or shouldn't be a debate about whether Song or Ward or Politi become All-Star ace starters or never make it.

 

The point is that the organization that decided to lose them just came in last place twice in the past three years -- mainly because of brutal pitching -- while continually stating a goal to build for the future. And instead, they protected guys like Braiser and Ort, not to mention others they since jettisoned like Park and Hosmer...

 

Park was protected AFTER the Rule 5 draft deadline. I agree that Brasier and Ort better have good years since that is who Bloom kept. However, Bloom also kept German, DHern and Seabold who were also DFA'd. A case could have been made to have keep Ward through the Rule 5 draft instead of those three and work a trade if you don't see a fit for him at the very least.

[mvp 78]

Not really sure how Park and Hosmer are relevant. Should the Sox have protected Song and Politi and then jettisoned them for the same transactions in which they released Park and Hosmer?

 

People are freaking out about not protecting Song. Why? He hasn’t pitched since 2019 and barely pitched then. Really that anyone selected him is the bigger surprise (and very likely the more questionable decision). I get losing Ward as a poor decision and said so repeatedly. But Song? His selection was completely unanticipated.

 

Also at some point it might be worth noting the bulk of Rule 5 selections do get returned to their original team. I would expect Ward to be gone; he might even make the opening day rotation for the Nationals. But barring trades, there’s a pretty good chance the Sox get back at least one of Song or Politi, if not both…

 

Also, having Rule 5 guys selected is a sign of having a strong system. If Bloom develops a strong farm, more Rule 5 guys will be taken over the next few years.

[moonslav59]

Ball wasn't a top 100 prospect, was he?

 

He only was ranked 9th on SP's out of the gate, and then he quickly fell to 11-13th, and later down to 17th and then out of the top 20 by mid 2017.

[moonslav59]

Also, having Rule 5 guys selected is a sign of having a strong system. If Bloom develops a strong farm, more Rule 5 guys will be taken over the next few years.

 

Good point.

 

One could argue since nobody would likely claim Brasier and Ort off waivers, other GMs seemingly valued Song and Ward more than those two.

[notin]

A team drafting a Rule V guy has to pay $100K to the original club. Do you honestly think any MLB org would rather pay for Park or Hosmer, or just wait until they were DFAed?

 

Or were the Red Sox intentionally leaving guys unprotected that they were hoping to make some money on?

 

More likely they were leaving players exposed they assumed wouldn’t be taken.

 

Ward? I said questionable at the time, but maybe they hoped his injury history would be a deterrent.

 

Song? Frankly I think protecting him would have been a huge question mark since his entire career consists of 17 IP in Lowell that all took place before anyone ever used the word “COVID”.

 

It’s also possible the Sox are not trying to build the farm with pitching, which is a very high risk/high reward method. Teams that do that very often stay “rebuilding” for a long time.

 

Look at Houston - the probable model the Sox want to emulate. They had 3 consecutive #1 overall draft picks. Their choices were Mark Appel, Carlos Correa, and Brady Aiken. They could not have flopped worse on two of them, both of whom played the same position. Correa was a huge success. Ditto Springer. McCullers was a part time success. Bregman and Tucker were huge. Forest Whitley not so much.

 

They absolutely hit on some pitching prospects - mostly IFAs - but did much, much better building their farm on position player talent.

 

I think that’s what the Sox might be doing as well…

[moonslav59]

More likely they were leaving players exposed they assumed wouldn’t be taken.

 

Ward? I said questionable at the time, but maybe they hoped his injury history would be a deterrent.

 

Song? Frankly I think protecting him would have been a huge question mark since his entire career consists of 17 IP in Lowell that all took place before anyone ever used the word “COVID”.

 

It’s also possible the Sox are not trying to build the farm with pitching, which is a very high risk/high reward method. Teams that do that very often stay “rebuilding” for a long time.

 

Look at Houston - the probable model the Sox want to emulate. They had 3 consecutive #1 overall draft picks. Their choices were Mark Appel, Carlos Correa, and Brady Aiken. They could not have flopped worse on two of them, both of whom played the same position. Correa was a huge success. Ditto Springer. McCullers was a part time success. Bregman and Tucker were huge. Forest Whitley not so much.

 

They absolutely hit on some pitching prospects - mostly IFAs - but did much, much better building their farm on position player talent.

 

I think that’s what the Sox might be doing as well…

 

The trade for Yordan helped, too.

[notin]

Park was protected AFTER the Rule 5 draft deadline. I agree that Brasier and Ort better have good years since that is who Bloom kept. However, Bloom also kept German, DHern and Seabold who were also DFA'd. A case could have been made to have keep Ward through the Rule 5 draft instead of those three and work a trade if you don't see a fit for him at the very least.

 

Also the highly questionable choice to protect David Hamilton…

[Old Red]

He only was ranked 9th on SP's out of the gate, and then he quickly fell to 11-13th, and later down to 17th and then out of the top 20 by mid 2017.

 

One word. SUSPECT!

[notin]

The trade for Yordan helped, too.

 

Yep. And they got him for a mediocre relief pitcher left exposed to the Rule 5 draft by Ben Cherington…

[notin]

Ball wasn't a top 100 prospect, was he?

 

BA pre-2014 #89

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

More likely they were leaving players exposed they assumed wouldn’t be taken.

 

Ward? I said questionable at the time, but maybe they hoped his injury history would be a deterrent.

 

Song? Frankly I think protecting him would have been a huge question mark since his entire career consists of 17 IP in Lowell that all took place before anyone ever used the word “COVID”.

 

It’s also possible the Sox are not trying to build the farm with pitching, which is a very high risk/high reward method. Teams that do that very often stay “rebuilding” for a long time.

 

Look at Houston - the probable model the Sox want to emulate. They had 3 consecutive #1 overall draft picks. Their choices were Mark Appel, Carlos Correa, and Brady Aiken. They could not have flopped worse on two of them, both of whom played the same position. Correa was a huge success. Ditto Springer. McCullers was a part time success. Bregman and Tucker were huge. Forest Whitley not so much.

 

They absolutely hit on some pitching prospects - mostly IFAs - but did much, much better building their farm on position player talent.

 

I think that’s what the Sox might be doing as well…

 

Houston let Cy Old walk, McCullers is already sore, Seattle is loaded and hungry (and not for late-night breakfast). Astros may be vulnerable in '23... unless they play New York in the playoffs, of course.

[moonslav59]

Also the highly questionable choice to protect David Hamilton…

 

What were the chanced he'd be selected?

 

0.01%?

[moonslav59]

One word. SUSPECT!

 

Yes, most prospects amount to squat, but many "suspects" become very useful players and even stars.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Well, I have seen more than one poster refer to the possibility of their head exploding.

 

Never guzzle a DQ Mister Misty Freeze

[mvp 78]

Also the highly questionable choice to protect David Hamilton…

 

Another interesting call for sure.

[mvp 78]

One word. SUSPECT!

 

Wow, you don't have to call out Noah Song like that.

[Old Red]

Yes, most prospects amount to squat, but many "suspects" become very useful players and even stars.

 

The only thing I have tried to stress over, and over is that not all playing in the minor leagues are prospects, and even then not all prospects turn out, and produce in the ML, and turn out to be nothing more than suspects. Like I have also stressed I don’t get excited until they produce in a Red Sox uniform, or are traded for someone who does. That’s just me. Hopefully for right now Casas, and Bello live up to the hype. Lots is riding on that.

[mvp 78]

BA pre-2014 #89

 

That's just sad. There rankings must be much better now.

[Old Red]

Wow, you don't have to call out Noah Song like that.

I wouldn’t do that to a fellow Navy man.

[mvp 78]

I wouldn’t do that to a fellow Navy man.

 

As you said though, he's a SUSPECT!

[moonslav59]

As you said though, he's a SUSPECT!

 

I think he was referring to T-Ball, but he seems to think all prospects are suspects.

[Old Red]

I think he was referring to T-Ball, but he seems to think all prospects are suspects.

 

T-Ball was correct, but to say I think all prospects are suspects is incorrect. I think Casas, and Bello are prospects, and like I said I’m hoping they both live up to the hype. I just don’t get giddy like some do every time someone comes back in a trade like the Beni, Renfroe, or Vaz trades like the Red Sox have struck gold, or something.Not much has panned out yet.

[mvp 78]

@MacCerullo

Cora on Enmanuel Valdez: "He can hit. He can hit. This kid, he gets it. He controls the strike zone, he can hit."

 

Adds that he's more comfortable at second base than elsewhere but they'll keep helping him with his defense. Also impressed with Wilyer Abreu.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I just don’t get giddy like some do every time someone comes back in a trade like the Beni, Renfroe, or Vaz trades like the Red Sox have struck gold, or something.Not much has panned out yet.

 

You might even say those trades have struck brown, so far (as in sediment in the pan).

 

But can't you see they've struck green, as well? The Red Sox don't have to pay any of those big leaguers their market rates.

[moonslav59]

T-Ball was correct, but to say I think all prospects are suspects is incorrect. I think Casas, and Bello are prospects, and like I said I’m hoping they both live up to the hype. I just don’t get giddy like some do every time someone comes back in a trade like the Beni, Renfroe, or Vaz trades like the Red Sox have struck gold, or something.Not much has panned out yet.

 

Bello is not a prospect, anymore. Casas won't be soon.

 

Do you consider Mayer, Mata and Rafaela "suspects?"

[Old Red]

Bello is not a prospect, anymore. Casas won't be soon.

 

Do you consider Mayer, Mata and Rafaela "suspects?"

 

Bello hasn’t established anything yet, and neither has Casas, but call them what ever you want. No, no, and no on your last question, but they haven’t established anything in the ML either. Hype does not help in the standings, but if, and when it does it will be great.

[moonslav59]

You might even say those trades have struck brown, so far (as in sediment in the pan).

 

But can't you see they've struck green, as well? The Red Sox don't have to pay any of those big leaguers their market rates.

 

Certainly, we know enough about some of the prospects received to know brown when we see it.

 

Wink is still a bit unknown, but does not have the same promise he had 2 years ago.

The other 3 from that trade have done nothing to distinguish themselves in 2 years. Luis de la Rosa might be one that moves up.

The Hamilton and Binelas for Renfroe still are largely unknown, but again, neither have done much to impress, except Hamilton did something to get protected on Rule 5.

The Vaz return is way to early to even begin to grade out. Plus, we lost 2 months of Vaz, unlike Beni & Renfroe.

 

Maybe the best Bloom trade has been Hembree & Workman for Pivetta & Seabold. Maybe The McGuire deal will jump to number 1. Mondesi may surprise. I have hopes Valdez and Abrue will convince many it was a good trade. If you combine the Diekman and Vaz trades, it looks real sweet, to me. 3 years of McGuire for 2 months of Vaz and a dump of salary on Diekman, plus 2 pretty good prospects in Valdez & Abreu.