Fire Bloom .

[mvp 78]

Missing the point again, but that’s alright. The point being I don’t get swayed by Any opinions in the media, but I said my opinions line up more with what I have heard on the different sports venues then what I see on here. Do you think most opinions voiced on here are more mainstream, or not? I have heard a lot more opinions on other sports venues even in the last year then on here, so I think I have a pretty good grasp of things with all the different opinions shared, and like I said earlier Bloom gets a lot more support on here then anywhere else. V E R Y Interesting in the least.

 

Yes, because we don't blindly follow the lamestream media narrative like you. Duh. We all think for ourselves on here and disagree with each other all the time, but somehow your perception is that we're the outside the norm and weird and love Bloom even though we complain about the Sox all the time.

[mvp 78]

Right.

 

You don’t get swayed. You just constantly cite them to support your opinion…

 

"You guys are so off base because Mazz and Merloni said..." is half of his arguments. Keep sucking on the bottle of big corporate media.

[mvp 78]

Much to your chagrin that they do support my opinions, which I’m sure you would do the same thing if they supported your opinions. I’ll take the bigger sample size out there compared to the smaller sample size on here any day, but in the end they are all just opinions. Maybe you are one of the ones who does gets swayed by the media, and that’s alright too. On the other hand I don’t get swayed by opinions of the media anymore then I get swayed by the opinions voiced on here, and you know how that works out.

 

The sample size being Mazz and Merloni. LOL

[mvp 78]

The "bashing" is 24/7, too.

 

We understand your position. Disagree does not mean not understanding. That works both ways.

 

When there are parts we don't understand, we ask for clarification and at times get stone-walled or accused of overanalyzing for trying to dive deeper into the debate.

 

Bashing is fine and good. Bashing without providing ANY solutions... Not great or productive for conversation!

[moonslav59]

Bashing is fine and good. Bashing without providing ANY solutions... Not great or productive for conversation!

 

My main issue is the lack of context used and oversimplification of the situation Bloom was handed.

 

No doubt, he has made mistakes, but many GMs make mistakes when signing multiple $15-30M players. Most GMs have multiple and meaningful graduating prospects just about every year. Many winning GMs were not asked to cut their budget and trade their best player, year one. To me, doing pretty well in 1 of the 3 seasons, here is about what should have been expected. I can see how some disagree, but it seems their criticism is usually not tempered with and talk of the difficult circumstances he walked into.

[moonslav59]

"You guys are so off base because Mazz and Merloni said..." is half of his arguments. Keep sucking on the bottle of big corporate media.

 

Don't forget Guy Manella and the Sports Babe- just don't call them "the media.".

[mvp 78]

My main issue is the lack of context used and oversimplification of the situation Bloom was handed.

 

No doubt, he has made mistakes, but many GMs make mistakes when signing multiple $15-30M players. Most GMs have multiple and meaningful graduating prospects just about every year. Many winning GMs were not asked to cut their budget and trade their best player, year one. To me, doing pretty well in 1 of the 3 seasons, here is about what should have been expected. I can see how some disagree, but it seems their criticism is usually not tempered with and talk of the difficult circumstances he walked into.

 

That's the whole "bashing without solutions" part. The only solution that has been provided was "fire Bloom" but I don't think that necessarily even gets to the root of the problem the Sox have. The reason the Sox are in a roller coaster cycle is due John Henry.

[moonslav59]

That's the whole "bashing without solutions" part. The only solution that has been provided was "fire Bloom" but I don't think that necessarily even gets to the root of the problem the Sox have. The reason the Sox are in a roller coaster cycle is due John Henry.

 

...and him allowing the team to move too far away from a sustainable farm system that provides low cost and positive production on a steady basis.

 

A few swings and misses on bigger contracts hurt, too. I guess that could be blamed on JH, but for various reasons, the Price contract hurt on the second half (as somewhat expected), the JD contract was a good one, but tailed off near the middle and end, the Sale extension bit us in the ass, and the Boget extension added one year, but the opt out left us hanging. (Before that, the Castillo, Pablito and HRam signings were not good, and the Castillo gamble failed.

 

I'm not sure how much input JH had one those major signings, but he probably had to give approval.

 

Overall, I find it hard to be too critical of JH. I'm too damn thankful for the 4 rings, to get all worked up enough to criticize.

[mvp 78]

Overall, I find it hard to be too critical of JH. I'm too damn thankful for the 4 rings, to get all worked up enough to criticize.

 

He's the common denominator for everything, the good and the bad. To just ignore the bad parts doesn't make sense to me. The Sox didn't have to be bad in 12 to win in 13 and bad in 14/15 in order to win in 18. Did the Sox have to be bad in 20 and 22 for their next great team? Probably not.

[moonslav59]

He's the common denominator for everything, the good and the bad. To just ignore the bad parts doesn't make sense to me. The Sox didn't have to be bad in 12 to win in 13 and bad in 14/15 in order to win in 18. Did the Sox have to be bad in 20 and 22 for their next great team? Probably not.

 

Good points. While I have praised DD more than criticized, I have mostly blamed him for the fact that we've only added Houck in the 5 years between Devers and Bello/Casas, but I'm sure JH was fine with that overall strategy and long term planning.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that although I don't think a team has to suck in the years between rings, I'd rather have the past tow decades than more consistent winning without rings, like what we saw before Henry.

 

Also, I don't think they planned on 5 last place finishes. In 4 of those years, our pre-season outlook was not all that bad, and the 2020 season could be blamed on Covid and the fact that Sale & ERod missed the whole year. (I do think they knew 2020 might be a last place team, when the season started.)

 

Our budget remained pretty high, even in losing seasons, so I don't think the losing was intentional- like say, the Astros before their extended window opened several years ago.

[Old Red]

The sample size being Mazz and Merloni. LOL

 

How shallow that is. Just, because I have followed talk radio since I can remember I form my own opinions from watching the games, and not what someone says on the radio, tv, or in the newspaper. Let me see this last losing season, and last in the Div finish did not take any one else to tell me the Sox sucked. If Mass, and Merloni were my sample size, and I can’t stand either one that would be pretty small, but anytime they are mentioned like Shaugnessy sirens go off, and the comments start. You aren’t saying you know more about baseball are you, because you seemed to be bothered y them pretty bad. You guys also hate the real good possibility that Bloom has more critics then supporters out there too, so I take solace that there are a lot more like me out there believe it, or not. It amuses me why this conversation with so many back, and fourth was started up again today, and for what purpose. I know one on here has bragged they have to get the last word in, and so be it, but in the end no one has changed their opinion, and no one is going too. You see things your way, and I see things my way about Bloom.

[Old Red]

That's the whole "bashing without solutions" part. The only solution that has been provided was "fire Bloom" but I don't think that necessarily even gets to the root of the problem the Sox have. The reason the Sox are in a roller coaster cycle is due John Henry.

 

Wrong, and wrong again. I gave my solution to the BP problem before last season that a closer was needed, and named names on the possible solution. To start last season with the way the backend of the BP was was not good baseball planning. I’ve also said many times last year, and I’ll say it again this year that Whitlock should be in the pen.

[moonslav59]

How shallow that is. Just, because I have followed talk radio since I can remember I form my own opinions from watching the games, and not what someone says on the radio, tv, or in the newspaper. Let me see this last losing season, and last in the Div finish did not take any one else to tell me the Sox sucked. If Mass, and Merloni were my sample size, and I can’t stand either one that would be pretty small, but anytime they are mentioned like Shaugnessy sirens go off, and the comments start. You aren’t saying you know more about baseball are you, because you seemed to be bothered y them pretty bad. You guys also hate the real good possibility that Bloom has more critics then supporters out there too, so I take solace that there are a lot more like me out there believe it, or not. It amuses me why this conversation with so many back, and fourth was started up again today, and for what purpose. I know one on here has bragged they have to get the last word in, and so be it, but in the end no one has changed their opinion, and no one is going too. You see things your way, and I see things my way about Bloom.

 

We all keep it going, including you.

 

Not many of us feel the need to say more people agree with me than you. That's something you do or feel you need to do.

 

You may very well be right that more share your opinion, but most fans don't even know Bloom was handed a mandate to trade Betts, cut the budget and concentrate on rebuilding the farm, and most could care less, if anyone tried to tell them that.

 

They see losing seasons and form their opinions on mostly just that. It's their right to do that, and I'm okay with a majority, if it is one, thinking like that. I will disagree and push back, where and when I feel it is needed, but I'm not trying to say I am better than them or you. I'm not claiming you don't "understand" my position, because you don't agree, but I will try explaining why I think your opinion lack context. I know I will probbaly not change your mind and respect your differing opinion, but I will keep responding, everytime I think someone says something I feel needs a response or context added.

 

For the same purpose you just posted this post: I post mine.

[moonslav59]

Wrong, and wrong again. I gave my solution to the BP problem before last season that a closer was needed, and named names on the possible solution. To start last season with the way the backend of the BP was was not good baseball planning. I’ve also said many times last year, and I’ll say it again this year that Whitlock should be in the pen.

 

I remember you named one name not "names," and you never stated who you would not have signed to get Jansen, instead.

 

Wacha & Hill?

 

Hill, Diekman & Strahm?

 

It's easier in hindsight, but never done at time.

 

[mvp 78]

Good points. While I have praised DD more than criticized, I have mostly blamed him for the fact that we've only added Houck in the 5 years between Devers and Bello/Casas, but I'm sure JH was fine with that overall strategy and long term planning.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that although I don't think a team has to suck in the years between rings, I'd rather have the past tow decades than more consistent winning without rings, like what we saw before Henry.

 

Also, I don't think they planned on 5 last place finishes. In 4 of those years, our pre-season outlook was not all that bad, and the 2020 season could be blamed on Covid and the fact that Sale & ERod missed the whole year. (I do think they knew 2020 might be a last place team, when the season started.)

 

Our budget remained pretty high, even in losing seasons, so I don't think the losing was intentional- like say, the Astros before their extended window opened several years ago.

 

They didn't "plan" on the bad seasons, but they weren't a mirage. They are on the ledger and part of the reason everyone is frustrated.

[mvp 78]

Wrong, and wrong again. I gave my solution to the BP problem before last season that a closer was needed, and named names on the possible solution. To start last season with the way the backend of the BP was was not good baseball planning. I’ve also said many times last year, and I’ll say it again this year that Whitlock should be in the pen.

 

We've solved it everyone. Move Whitlock to the pen and everything is fixed!

[mvp 78]

How shallow that is. Just, because I have followed talk radio since I can remember I form my own opinions from watching the games, and not what someone says on the radio, tv, or in the newspaper. Let me see this last losing season, and last in the Div finish did not take any one else to tell me the Sox sucked. If Mass, and Merloni were my sample size, and I can’t stand either one that would be pretty small, but anytime they are mentioned like Shaugnessy sirens go off, and the comments start. You aren’t saying you know more about baseball are you, because you seemed to be bothered y them pretty bad. You guys also hate the real good possibility that Bloom has more critics then supporters out there too, so I take solace that there are a lot more like me out there believe it, or not. It amuses me why this conversation with so many back, and fourth was started up again today, and for what purpose. I know one on here has bragged they have to get the last word in, and so be it, but in the end no one has changed their opinion, and no one is going too. You see things your way, and I see things my way about Bloom.

 

Yes, I know more about baseball than CHB.

 

No, it doesn't bother me if people don't like Bloom. However, it does bother you if people like Bloom. I don't care about him either way.

[moonslav59]

They didn't "plan" on the bad seasons, but they weren't a mirage. They are on the ledger and part of the reason everyone is frustrated.

 

No doubt. And, they should not be ignored. Criticism is fine and even expected. I think we are in agreement. It's not as simple as just blaming Bloom and wanting him fired.

[Bellhorn04]

No doubt. And, they should not be ignored. Criticism is fine and even expected. I think we are in agreement. It's not as simple as just blaming Bloom and wanting him fired.

 

But if the Sox miss the playoffs this year, it's not going to be a big surprise if Henry simply blames Bloom and fires him...

[Old Red]

We've solved it everyone. Move Whitlock to the pen and everything is fixed!

 

Who said everything would be fixed? I’ll answer that for you. NO ONE! To me the BP is better when Whitlock is in it, and the BP is not as good when Whitlock is not in it.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Old Red

[moonslav59]

But if the Sox miss the playoffs this year, it's not going to be a big surprise if Henry simply blames Bloom and fires him...

 

I'd totally understand that. It would mirror the Ben firing.

 

Now, if JH only allows Bloom to spend $40M, this winter, I might think a firing would be more questionable.

[Old Red]

Yes, I know more about baseball than CHB.

 

No, it doesn't bother me if people don't like Bloom. However, it does bother you if people like Bloom. I don't care about him either way.

Wrong again, but that’s OK. What do you think came first posters being bothered by my criticism of Bloom, or me being bothered by Blooms supporters?

[Bellhorn04]

I'd totally understand that. It would mirror the Ben firing.

 

Now, if JH only allows Bloom to spend $40M, this winter, I might think a firing would be more questionable.

 

I think chances are less than zero JH isn't allowing spending up to the $232 at least.

[mvp 78]

But if the Sox miss the playoffs this year, it's not going to be a big surprise if Henry simply blames Bloom and fires him...

 

It's the easiest way for JH to save face.

[Bellhorn04]

Wrong again, but that’s OK. What do you think came first posters being bothered by my criticism of Bloom, or me being bothered by Blooms supporters?

 

A classic chicken and egg conundrum.

[mvp 78]

Wrong again, but that’s OK. What do you think came first posters being bothered by my criticism of Bloom, or me being bothered by Blooms supporters?

 

It was the people who complained about the Bloom Fan Brigade or whatever. That there were posters being paid by the Sox or whatever nonsense. That's what came first. Nobody cares if you don't like Bloom. People have always complained about the GM/CBO on here. It's a normal thing. Why would people be offended by it now?

[Old Red]

A classic chicken and egg conundrum.

 

And both sides will claim fowl.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'd totally understand that. It would mirror the Ben firing.

 

Now, if JH only allows Bloom to spend $40M, this winter, I might think a firing would be more questionable.

 

The only way I can see Bloom getting canned is if the extra money from Bogey leaving is spent on actual stud pitching -- and the Red Sox still suck.

 

But if X signs elsewhere, and all Bloom does is fill in with a placeholder and add a few other mediocrities just so they can field a team, then you have your answer: the bank's closed.

 

So what if they miss the postseason again, as long as they still trade assets for prospects, stay under the tax, get into a good draft position, and give their farm another year to grow. Bloom will be doing his job and get to keep it.

 

Unless ownership is planning on selling the Sox soon...

[Old Red]

It was the people who complained about the Bloom Fan Brigade or whatever. That there were posters being paid by the Sox or whatever nonsense. That's what came first. Nobody cares if you don't like Bloom. People have always complained about the GM/CBO on here. It's a normal thing. Why would people be offended by it now?

 

I’ve heard of the PBA, but not about posters being paid by the Sox. Very interesting.

[notin]

A classic chicken and egg conundrum.

 

Except the answer to the actual chicken/egg question is really quite obvious…