2022 Bullpen Thread

[notin]

On the other hand, how many long-term (5 years or more) reliable late inning relievers have the Red Sox had in their history?

 

I can only think of two, really - Radatz and Papelbon.

 

Koji was awesome in 2013, but returned to earth after that.

 

Kimbrel gave us 3 very good years, but he wasn't very good for us in his postseason efforts.

 

Bob Stanley!!!!!!!!!

[Bellhorn04]

Bob Stanley!!!!!!!!!

 

True. But all we remember is his conspicuous failures.

[moonslav59]

On the other hand, how many long-term (5 years or more) reliable late inning relievers have the Red Sox had in their history?

 

I can only think of two, really - Radatz and Papelbon.

 

Koji was awesome in 2013, but returned to earth after that.

 

Kimbrel gave us 3 very good years, but he wasn't very good for us in his postseason efforts.

 

Koji wasn't very good after 2013?

 

He wasn't like 2013 Koji, but neither was Mo.

 

0.917 WHIP in 2014 and 2015 was very good.,

 

Amazingly, he had a WHIP below 0.995 for 7 straight seasons (2010-2016.) Not all for the Sox, though.

 

 

[notin]

True. But all we remember is his conspicuous failures.

 

And yet he was the greatest Sox reliever of all time…

[Bellhorn04]

Koji wasn't very good after 2013?

 

He wasn't like 2013 Koji, but neither was Mo.

 

0.917 WHIP in 2014 and 2015 was very good.,

 

Amazingly, he had a WHIP below 0.995 for 7 straight seasons (2010-2016.) Not all for the Sox, though.

 

 

 

Koji was very good in 2014.

 

In 2015-17 he only pitched a total of 130 innings. Still a quality pitcher, but age starting to really show.

[dgalehouse]

Koji was unique . And he was a good to very good pitcher besides his great run in 2013. However , he had just 95 saves in his career . His high for a year was 26. So , he does not rate among the great closers .

[notin]

Koji was unique . And he was a good to very good pitcher besides his great run in 2013. However , he had just 95 saves in his career . His high for a year was 26. So , he does not rate among the great closers .

 

True, he was no Jeff Montgomery…

[dgalehouse]

True, he was no Jeff Montgomery…

 

Your clever exaggerations are always appreciated.

[harmony]

Agree, but a below-average rotation of fill-ins is then directly related to the overwork, and subsequent ineffectiveness, of the bullpen.

So one way to look at the offseason is that Bloom may invest heavily on more durable starters or a better, deeper cast of relievers. An either/or could be preferable to acquiring, say, one new starter and one new reliever...

The Seattle bullpen has benefited from a starting rotation that ranks in the top three in quality starts as Mariner relievers have tossed the fifth-fewest innings in MLB.

 

The bullpen received late-season relief near the trade deadline when Luis Castillo was added to the already solid rotation of Robbie Ray, Logan Gilbert, Marco Gonzales, Chris Flexen and George Kirby. The M's relievers got an added day off last Tuesday when Kirby went five innings and Flexen posted the four-inning save. The Mariners hoped to repeat the Kirby/Flexen tag team on Sunday but Cleveland rain has apparently doused that plan.

[notin]

Your clever exaggerations are always appreciated.

 

They are there to support your over-simplifications and sweeping generalizations…

[dgalehouse]

They are there to support your over-simplifications and sweeping generalizations…

 

I just call them like I see them.

[moonslav59]

Koji was very good in 2014.

 

In 2015-17 he only pitched a total of 130 innings. Still a quality pitcher, but age starting to really show.

 

He wasn't with the Sox in 2017, maybe you meant 2014-2016. He was still "very good" in 2014, 2015 and 2016. That's 4 years in a row.

 

2014-2016

152 IP

2.73 ERA

0.930 WHIP is among the best of that period

11.3 K/9

1.7 BB/9

6.8 K/9 is outstanding

[moonslav59]

I just call them like I see them.

 

Your objectivity is astounding.

[dgalehouse]

Your objectivity is astounding.

 

I have no idea what you mean by that. But your biases are very evident.

[moonslav59]

I have no idea what you mean by that. But your biases are very evident.

 

You hide yours well.

[notin]

I just call them like I see them.

 

And I also just call them like you see them…

[moonslav59]

And I also just call them like you see them…

 

You're like Eck vs Youk.

[Old Red]

Old friend Daniel Bard notched his 30th save yesterday. Not bad for a team worse off then the Sox , and 20 games under 500. Didn’t we used to have a guy like that once?

[Bellhorn04]

Old friend Daniel Bard notched his 30th save yesterday. Not bad for a team worse off then the Sox , and 20 games under 500. Didn’t we used to have a guy like that once?

 

We did, but he wasn't very good the last time he pitched for us.

 

It's a great story, that's all.

[mvp 78]

We did, but he wasn't very good the last time he pitched for us.

 

It's a great story, that's all.

 

He was also getting shaky the prior year in the pen. It took a LOOOOONG time for him to get it back.

[Old Red]

The Globe says there is an open audition going on in the pen for next year, but to me what’s happens now does not guarantee anything for next year. Can you count on Schreiber to be as good next year? I don’t think so, and what about Whitlock next year?

[Bellhorn04]

The Globe says there is an open audition going on in the pen for next year, but to me what’s happens now does not guarantee anything for next year. Can you count on Schreiber to be as good next year? I don’t think so, and what about Whitlock next year?

 

Whitlock should be fine. The lingering hip injury obviously affected some outings. They've cut him back to one inning appearances.

[notin]

German gets the call!

 

Finally!

[notin]

The Globe says there is an open audition going on in the pen for next year, but to me what’s happens now does not guarantee anything for next year. Can you count on Schreiber to be as good next year? I don’t think so, and what about Whitlock next year?

 

 

I would imagine Whitlock, Schreiber, Winckowski, Crawford, German, Kelly and Houck are all seeking roles, but not all footing is equal.

 

Soxprospects.com lists all but German in the 2023 bullpen, but they also rarely include players from outside the organization..

[Bellhorn04]

German gets the call!

 

Finally!

 

Yahoo!

[moonslav59]

I would imagine Whitlock, Schreiber, Winckowski, Crawford, German, Kelly and Houck are all seeking roles, but not all footing is equal.

 

Soxprospects.com lists all but German in the 2023 bullpen, but they also rarely include players from outside the organization..

 

They do list "Acquisition" for 2 lefty slots in the pen, 2 in the rotation and a SS and RF'er.

 

C Mcquire

1B Casas

2B Story

SS (Bogey)

3B Devers

LF Verdugo

CF Kike

RF Acquisition

DH Hosmer

 

Bench: Wong, Arroyo, Dalbec, Refsnyder (No Pham)

 

SP RF Acquisition

SP Sale

SP (Wacha) RF Acquisition

SP Pivetta

SP Bello

 

LR Crawford

LR Winckowski

 

RP Whitlock

RP Houck

RP Schreiber

LH Acquisition

LH Acquisition

RP Barnes

RP Kelly

(No Brasier, Danish, Taylor)

 

 

[moonslav59]

German gets the call!

 

Finally!

 

I've been looking forward to this moment.

[moonslav59]

I would imagine Whitlock, Schreiber, Winckowski, Crawford, German, Kelly and Houck are all seeking roles, but not all footing is equal.

 

Soxprospects.com lists all but German in the 2023 bullpen, but they also rarely include players from outside the organization..

 

A lot depends on how many and how good/healthy starters we add or return from injury (Sale and the Paxton option). We may offer 1-2 QOs (Wacha and Nate.)

 

If we can assume Whitlock and Houck will be in the pen as closers or relief aces, I see it like this:

 

Locks:

Whitlock, Houck and Schreiber (it would be wise to add another solid set-up pitcher or two, in case Schreiber stumbles.)

 

Have to prove they don't belong, either over the last 3 weeks of the season and or in ST'ing '24:

Crawford, Barnes, Kelly, German

 

That's 7 out of 8, but I'd like to see us add 2 solid pen arms, which would likely squeeze one of the group of 4 back to AAA as depth.

 

Then, there is the Taylor case. If he can return to close to what he was before, he certainly deserves a slot. I think we finally trade Brasier, although soxprospects shows him as having an option left. Danish should begin in AAA with Seabold, Bazardo, ort, DHern, Politi, Feltman and Mata/Walter/Murphy/Ward.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

They do list "Acquisition" for 2 lefty slots in the pen, 2 in the rotation and a SS and RF'er.

 

C Mcquire

1B Casas

2B Story

SS (Bogey)

3B Devers

LF Verdugo

CF Kike

RF Acquisition

DH Hosmer

 

Bench: Wong, Arroyo, Dalbec, Refsnyder (No Pham)

 

SP RF Acquisition

SP Sale

SP (Wacha) RF Acquisition

SP Pivetta

SP Bello

 

LR Crawford

LR Winckowski

 

RP Whitlock

RP Houck

RP Schreiber

LH Acquisition

LH Acquisition

RP Barnes

RP Kelly

(No Brasier, Danish, Taylor)

 

 

 

Pham has been a negative dWAR in the field and a 30% K-rate at the plate for the Sox; we can do better. DH will be a platoon with Arroyo and the regulars he subs for on their days off. Not sure how Dalbec as a bench piece can improve and make contributions without regular at bats...

 

We all know not to count on Sale or Houck (it's not automatic to assume a pitcher will immediately bounce back to 100% after back surgery), so the starting rotation needs three acquisitions. It's unlikely Boston will pay Wacha what someone else will on the open market.

[a700hitter]

German gets the call!

 

Finally!

Do you have high hopes for him?