2022 Bullpen Thread

[Bellhorn04]

If he had just traded him for air, I'd have been happy. We saved $4M, next year.

 

Getting McGuire, a decent back-up catcher with possibilities for being better just adds icing to the cake.

 

The overall view of Bloom's deadline deals seems to be coming more into focus and favor among fans and posters.

 

He is a clever devil.

 

He's kind of the Vince Gilligan (Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul) of baseball executives. Things don't make sense and then they do.

[moonslav59]

He is a clever devil.

 

He's kind of the Vince Gilligan (Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul) of baseball executives. Things don't make sense and then they do.

 

It's all good, man!

[notin]

He is a clever devil.

 

He's kind of the Vince Gilligan (Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul) of baseball executives. Things don't make sense and then they do.

 

 

So last year, the Schwarber-Robles-Davis acquisitions received low grades and much condemnation as well. Will we be equally shocked this year?

 

I admit right now, I still don’t expect to be…

[moonslav59]

So last year, the Schwarber-Robles-Davis acquisitions received low grades and much condemnation as well. Will we be equally shocked this year?

 

I admit right now, I still don’t expect to be…

 

I seriously doubt the moves Bloom made will make a difference enough to get us into the playoffs. The returning IL players should have a bigger impact.

 

I see the moves made as being a bigger plus for 2023 and beyond, but still a slight plus for 2022- maybe more, if McGuire can hit a little better.

[Bellhorn04]

I seriously doubt the moves Bloom made will make a difference enough to get us into the playoffs. The returning IL players should have a bigger impact.

 

I see the moves made as being a bigger plus for 2023 and beyond, but still a slight plus for 2022- maybe more, if McGuire can hit a little better.

 

I'm more interested in the CERA thing with McGuire.

[redsoxrules]

Is it even the catchers who call the games now? I feel with all these advance statistics the catcher is probably following a chart for pitch sequence that was given to him. I've noticed in a lot of games the catcher looks into the dugout for signs

[Bellhorn04]

Is it even the catchers who call the games now? I feel with all these advance statistics the catcher is probably following a chart for pitch sequence that was given to him. I've noticed in a lot of games the catcher looks into the dugout for signs

 

I suspect it's some of each. The catcher has a game plan going in, but may need to make adjustments as the game goes on.

[notin]

Is it even the catchers who call the games now? I feel with all these advance statistics the catcher is probably following a chart for pitch sequence that was given to him. I've noticed in a lot of games the catcher looks into the dugout for signs

 

 

Teams were doing that kind of thing long before metrics.

 

Catchers are like quarterbacks. They implement a pre-existing game plan. But occasionally when things aren’t working out, they call an audible…

[moonslav59]

I'm more interested in the CERA thing with McGuire.

 

So, it's just the two of us?

[moonslav59]

Is it even the catchers who call the games now? I feel with all these advance statistics the catcher is probably following a chart for pitch sequence that was given to him. I've noticed in a lot of games the catcher looks into the dugout for signs

 

It goes beyond just calling pitches. Plus, pitchers often call off pitches, so who chooses the second or third options? (OK, maybe eventually, the pitcher, but still...)

 

I think there is an aspect of a catcher-pitcher relationship that goes beyond explanation or data. I know that sounds contradictory to my usual self, but there is a feel between a pitcher and catcher. Almost every pitcher will admit it and often talk about it. It might be something as simple as how the catcher presents his mitt as a target or how he calms a pitcher after a mistake. It might also involve some things that are measured, such as pitch-framing, blocking errant pitches and throwing out baserunners.

 

Some of the very best pitchers had their binky catchers, and it was for a reason, sometimes not the regular starting catcher.

[moonslav59]

Teams were doing that kind of thing long before metrics.

 

Catchers are like quarterbacks. They implement a pre-existing game plan. But occasionally when things aren’t working out, they call an audible…

 

...and a guy like VTek was so studious and understanding that pitchers trusted his judgement, which increased their confidence level... and likely improved outcomes.

[Bellhorn04]

So, it's just the two of us?

 

Me, you and Bloom, maybe.

[harmony]

...and a guy like VTek was so studious and understanding that pitchers trusted his judgement, which increased their confidence level... and likely improved outcomes.

That's a description of 25-year-old switch-hitting Seattle catcher Cal Raleigh, who is the same age Jason Varitek was when the Mariners traded the switch-hitting catcher to the Red Sox.

[moonslav59]

That's a description of 25-year-old switch-hitting Seattle catcher Cal Raleigh, who is the same age Jason Varitek was when the Mariners traded the switch-hitting catcher to the Red Sox.

 

It actually took VTek until around age 29-30 to get to the point where remarkable differences between pitcher success with him vs the other catcher on the Sox manifested itself.

[moonslav59]

Me, you and Bloom, maybe.

 

The fact that Bloom came close to getting Stallings leads me to think he is on our side, lonely as it is, over here.

 

[Jasonbay44]

Is there a single reason Ryan Brasier on the roster? He’s old, he sucks, and even if the season is lost, there is absolutely no reason to continue pitching a 7 ERA 35 year old relief pitcher

[dgalehouse]

Is there a single reason Ryan Brasier on the roster? He’s old, he sucks, and even if the season is lost, there is absolutely no reason to continue pitching a 7 ERA 35 year old relief pitcher

 

The bullpen needs a makeover. You could certainly start by releasing Brasier.

[Old Red]

The bullpen needs a makeover. You could certainly start by releasing Brasier.

 

You can have a bullpen made up of the ones that have already been released, and the ones who should be. Not a good one though.

[moonslav59]

The bullpen needs a makeover. You could certainly start by releasing Brasier.

 

Unless we add and bring up German, I'm not sure we'll see an improvement.

[Bellhorn04]

Unless we add and bring up German, I'm not sure we'll see an improvement.

 

So bring up German. Done.

[Old Red]

Unless we add and bring up German, I'm not sure we'll see an improvement.

 

We’ve brought up the Worcester starting staff, so might as well try all the BP as well.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

You can have a bullpen made up of the ones that have already been released, and the ones who should be. Not a good one though.

 

If the concept of a pen is keep things in, then the Red Sox need to open all the gates, turn off the electric fence, cut all the barbed wire, and hit the hay.

[Old Red]

If the concept of a pen is keep things in, then the Red Sox need to open all the gates, turn off the electric fence, cut all the barbed wire, and hit the hay.

 

I don’t think you would need a gate, or electric fence for this bunch except maybe to keep them out, and not in.

[moonslav59]

The pen gets a lot of abuse that maybe the rotation deserves:

 

OPS Against:

.708 RP'ers

.757 SP'ers

 

Individual OPS Against in Relief ONLY:

.399 Whitlock (115 PAs)

.550 Schreiber (205)

.587 Houck (178)

.589 P Valdez (72)

.659 Strahm (136)

.664 Sawamura (221) A case against using OPSA

.665 Danish (130)

.699 Barnes (131)

 

These were the pen killers (note their PAs Against)

1.376 DHern (43)

.879 Ort (82)

.864 Brasier (221)

.831 Robbles (111)

.799 Davis (232)

.744 Diekman (171)

 

Starter OPSA in order of most PAs Against

.729 Pivetta (626)

.774 Eovaldi (423)

.752 R Hill (375)

.605 Wacha (354)

 

.859 Wink (283)

.813 Craw (259)

.723 Whitlock (164)

.911 Bello (105)

.663 Houck (69)

1.296 Seab (63)

.584 Sale (25)

.186 Davis (22 as "opener")

[Old Red]

The pen gets a lot of abuse that maybe the rotation deserves:

 

OPS Against:

.708 RP'ers

.757 SP'ers

 

Individual OPS Against in Relief ONLY:

.399 Whitlock (115 PAs)

.550 Schreiber (205)

.587 Houck (178)

.589 P Valdez (72)

.659 Strahm (136)

.664 Sawamura (221) A case against using OPSA

.665 Danish (130)

.699 Barnes (131)

 

These were the pen killers (note their PAs Against)

1.376 DHern (43)

.879 Ort (82)

.864 Brasier (221)

.831 Robbles (111)

.799 Davis (232)

.744 Diekman (171)

 

Starter OPSA in order of most PAs Against

.729 Pivetta (626)

.774 Eovaldi (423)

.752 R Hill (375)

.605 Wacha (354)

 

.859 Wink (283)

.813 Craw (259)

.723 Whitlock (164)

.911 Bello (105)

.663 Houck (69)

1.296 Seab (63)

.584 Sale (25)

.186 Davis (22 as "opener")

I think the eye test says that both deserve the abuse, but the BP was what was being discussed. Did year hear Millar bring up the eye test during the broadcast last night?

[jad]

Is there a single reason Ryan Brasier on the roster? He’s old, he sucks, and even if the season is lost, there is absolutely no reason to continue pitching a 7 ERA 35 year old relief pitcher

 

Maybe (as I did in another thread), Bloom mis-read a report that said Ryan had a 100mph fastball and could easily pitch over 200 innings a year.

[moonslav59]

I think the eye test says that both deserve the abuse, but the BP was what was being discussed. Did year hear Millar bring up the eye test during the broadcast last night?

 

The eye test tells me pretty much what these numbers show me, except for Sawamura.

 

Both tell me Whitlock has been much better as a RP'er.

Both tell me Schreiber, Houck and Strahm have done well in the pen, and Barnes has been shaky but ok.

When we demoted Valdez, I wondered why, and didn't even know his OPSA was so good. (I was going by my eye test.)

The stats confirm my eye test on the pen killers, too.

 

My eye test would have ranked our top 4 starters just like the OPSA numbers ranked them:

1. Wacha

2. Pivetta

3. Hill

4. Nate

 

One can say, "See, the eye test is very accurate," but one could also say to the data aversion group, "See, the data is correct." The part that the eye test doesn't cover, is when you compare our players to those on other teams that our eyes don't watch much, or at all.

 

No, I did not hear Millar. I often have the sound turned down and listen to music, instead.

[mvp 78]

Unless we add and bring up German, I'm not sure we'll see an improvement.

 

Even bringing him up may not fix the situation.

[Old Red]

The eye test tells me pretty much what these numbers show me, except for Sawamura.

 

Both tell me Whitlock has been much better as a RP'er.

Both tell me Schreiber, Houck and Strahm have done well in the pen, and Barnes has been shaky but ok.

When we demoted Valdez, I wondered why, and didn't even know his OPSA was so good. (I was going by my eye test.)

The stats confirm my eye test on the pen killers, too.

 

My eye test would have ranked our top 4 starters just like the OPSA numbers ranked them:

1. Wacha

2. Pivetta

3. Hill

4. Nate

 

One can say, "See, the eye test is very accurate," but one could also say to the data aversion group, "See, the data is correct." The part that the eye test doesn't cover, is when you compare our players to those on other teams that our eyes don't watch much, or at all.

 

No, I did not hear Millar. I often have the sound turned down and listen to music, instead.

 

I agree with this, and you are the smart one for turning down the sound. Even though I referenced Millar I find him hard to listen to. Keep up the good work.

[dgalehouse]

When the Sox got Brasier in 2018 , he did a very nice job. Then they counted on him more than they should have , and he was unable to repeat his success. He became just another reliever . Not closer material ,but decent enough to keep around. A ham and egger. Now , it appears that even that is declining. But the problem is deeper than Brasier. This whole bullpen was poorly constructed. Need an entirely different approach.