2022 Bullpen Thread

[Bellhorn04]

Diekman is just not very good. He was below replacement level in 2021...

[jacksonianmarch]

Diekmann is a middle reliever. Sometimes he pitches well enough to be a setup man.

[mvp 78]

It was clearly not an afterthought. Until Story was signed in March, the only new MLB players Blom signed were relievers…

 

Hill, Paxton and Wacha are relievers?

 

I think simply signing Diekman and Strahm doesn't really show him putting an emphasis on improving the pen at all.

[Old Red]

Hill, Paxton and Wacha are relievers?

 

I think simply signing Diekman and Strahm doesn't really show him putting an emphasis on improving the pen at all.

 

I’ve said since before the season started that if Barnes can’t be the closer like he used to be than Whitlock should be the closer, and I think that Whitlock being the closer now is as obvious as it can get. Stop playing around, and put him there. Would the Sox be better than 7-11 right now if Whitlock had been the closer since day one? I keep saying it’s a waste not to pitch Whitlock 3-4 times a week than to just pitch him 1-2 times a week.

[moonslav59]

Diekman is just not very good. He was below replacement level in 2021...

 

From day one, I shook my head at his signing.

 

I know it wasn't much money, but Bloom has given so few contracts longer than 1 year, that I wondered why Diekman.

[moonslav59]

Hill, Paxton and Wacha are relievers?

 

Maybe he meant not good enough to be starters.

 

[notin]

Hill, Paxton and Wacha are relievers?

 

I think simply signing Diekman and Strahm doesn't really show him putting an emphasis on improving the pen at all.

 

 

The opening day rotation didn’t look to have both Houck and Whitlock either. Right now the bullpen is suffering a trickle-down effect from injuries and non-vaxxers…

[mvp 78]

Maybe he meant not good enough to be starters.

 

 

With Pivetta struggling and Sale out, all those guys are good enough to be in this rotation.

[Old Red]

With Pivetta struggling and Sale out, all those guys are good enough to be in this rotation.

 

Thanks to Bloom there aren’t many other options.

[mvp 78]

The opening day rotation didn’t look to have both Houck and Whitlock either. Right now the bullpen is suffering a trickle-down effect from injuries and non-vaxxers…

 

Diekman is struggling because he's a bad pitcher, not because of the guys around him. He fails against the bottom of the order.

 

They have no trust in Valdez and Sawamura and don't use them in pressure situations.

 

Danish isn't an MLBer.

 

Brasier should be DFA'd.

 

Crawford should be in WOO.

 

Barnes is lost.

 

It's a bad pen.

[Old Red]

Diekman is struggling because he's a bad pitcher, not because of the guys around him. He fails against the bottom of the order.

 

They have no trust in Valdez and Sawamura and don't use them in pressure situations.

 

Danish isn't an MLBer.

 

Brasier should be DFA'd.

 

Crawford should be in WOO.

 

Barnes is lost.

 

It's a bad pen.

 

And BLOOM is to blame for putting it together.

[moonslav59]

With Pivetta struggling and Sale out, all those guys are good enough to be in this rotation.

 

True dat.

 

But, if everyone was healthy and pitching near expectations, none of these guys, except a healthy Paxton (is that an oxymoron?) is a top 5 SP'er on this team.

 

Eovaldi

Sale

Houck

Whitlock

Pivetta/Paxton

Wacha

Hill

[mvp 78]

True dat.

 

But, if everyone was healthy and pitching near expectations, none of these guys, except a healthy Paxton (is that an oxymoron?) is a top 5 SP'er on this team.

 

Eovaldi

Sale

Houck

Whitlock

Pivetta/Paxton

Wacha

Hill

 

I thought the plan wasn't to have Whitlock in the rotation?

[moonslav59]

I thought the plan wasn't to have Whitlock in the rotation?

 

To start the season, yes. (Houck, too, but Sale got hurt.)

 

It does not change the fact that he's a better starter than they are.

[Old Red]

To start the season, yes. (Houck, too, but Sale got hurt.)

 

It does not change the fact that he's a better starter than they are.

 

It also doesn’t change the fact that the Red Sox don’t have a closer that has cost the Red Sox games.

[moonslav59]

The starters have now caught up...

 

Game by Game Breakdown

 

Starters IP/ER vs Relievers IP/ER

 

SP- RP

L 5.0/3 - 5.0/1 (2 ghost runs allowed)

L 5.2/4 - 2.1/0

W 3.1/3 - 5.2/1

L 4.1/1 - 3.2/2

W 4.1/3 - 4.2/0

W 5.0/2 - 4.0/5

L 2.0/5 - 7.0/4

W 5.2/0 - 3.1/0

W 5.0/0 - 4.0/1

L 4.2/4 - 4.1/4

W 4.2/1 - 4.1/1

L 4.0/5 - 5.0/1

L 5.0/2 - 4.0/1

W 5.0/2- 4.0/0

L 4.0/0- 5.2/3

L 4.0/ 0- 4.0/5

L 7.0/2- 1.0/4

L 4.2/2- 5.0/3 (plus 1 ghost runner)

 

The pen has done better in 8 games.

The starters have done better in 8.

They did about the same in 2 games.

 

The pen as done okay to well in 11 games.

The starters have done okay to well in 11 games.

[Old Red]

The starters have now caught up...

 

Game by Game Breakdown

 

Starters IP/ER vs Relievers IP/ER

 

SP- RP

L 5.0/3 - 5.0/1 (2 ghost runs allowed)

L 5.2/4 - 2.1/0

W 3.1/3 - 5.2/1

L 4.1/1 - 3.2/2

W 4.1/3 - 4.2/0

W 5.0/2 - 4.0/5

L 2.0/5 - 7.0/4

W 5.2/0 - 3.1/0

W 5.0/0 - 4.0/1

L 4.2/4 - 4.1/4

W 4.2/1 - 4.1/1

L 4.0/5 - 5.0/1

L 5.0/2 - 4.0/1

W 5.0/2- 4.0/0

L 4.0/0- 5.2/3

L 4.0/ 0- 4.0/5

L 7.0/2- 1.0/4

L 4.2/2- 5.0/3 (plus 1 ghost runner)

 

The pen has done better in 8 games.

The starters have done better in 8.

They did about the same in 2 games.

 

The pen as done okay to well in 11 games.

The starters have done okay to well in 11 games.

 

This all adds up to a 7-11 record.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It also doesn’t change the fact that the Red Sox don’t have a closer that has cost the Red Sox games.

 

Again, that's on Bloom. They knew -- and still know -- Barnes isn't the guy, and that they planned on making Whitlock a starter. And forget about Tanner Jouck; none of us will be laughing if the Sox get back in the race later on, and wind up back in Toronto in a closing situation.

[notin]

It also doesn’t change the fact that the Red Sox don’t have a closer that has cost the Red Sox games.

 

If they had kept Houck and Whitlock in the bullpen, they’d be much better. But they depleted the pen to fill the rotation.

 

One of the biggest issues with the lockdown is they didn’t know Sale would be unavailable for however long. If the Sox knew Houck would have to move to the rotation, perhaps the off-season goes different. But it looked to me like Houck and Whitlock were going to be the late inning shutdown guys.

 

Obviously rotation depth is important enough, and failing to capitalize on the Oakland fire sale could have kept the bullpen intact and in much better shape today. But that also depends on whatever the asking price was for Manaea and/Or Montas. (In the case of Montas, it was obviously a bit high, since he is still there unlike a lot of others.)

 

Manaea didn’t look like he went for much, but that doesn’t mean Forst didn’t ask for a lot from Boston.

 

 

The big surprise was holding Duran when he probably could have gotten a shut down reliever or another MLB starter that kept both Houck and Whitlock in the pen. Nothing against Duran, but there’s nowhere to play him in Boston right now…

[moonslav59]

Updated. The starters are catching up.

 

If they had kept Houck and Whitlock in the bullpen, they’d be much better. But they depleted the pen to fill the rotation.

 

One of the biggest issues with the lockdown is they didn’t know Sale would be unavailable for however long. If the Sox knew Houck would have to move to the rotation, perhaps the off-season goes different. But it looked to me like Houck and Whitlock were going to be the late inning shutdown guys.

 

Obviously rotation depth is important enough, and failing to capitalize on the Oakland fire sale could have kept the bullpen intact and in much better shape today. But that also depends on whatever the asking price was for Manaea and/Or Montas. (In the case of Montas, it was obviously a bit high, since he is still there unlike a lot of others.)

 

Manaea didn’t look like he went for much, but that doesn’t mean Forst didn’t ask for a lot from Boston.

 

 

The big surprise was holding Duran when he probably could have gotten a shut down reliever or another MLB starter that kept both Houck and Whitlock in the pen. Nothing against Duran, but there’s nowhere to play him in Boston right now…

 

I think with Kike being a FA after this year, and JBJ's offense being a huge question mark, keeping Duran made some sense.

 

I doubt it would have taken much to get Manaea.

[Old Red]

If they had kept Houck and Whitlock in the bullpen, they’d be much better. But they depleted the pen to fill the rotation.

 

One of the biggest issues with the lockdown is they didn’t know Sale would be unavailable for however long. If the Sox knew Houck would have to move to the rotation, perhaps the off-season goes different. But it looked to me like Houck and Whitlock were going to be the late inning shutdown guys.

 

Obviously rotation depth is important enough, and failing to capitalize on the Oakland fire sale could have kept the bullpen intact and in much better shape today. But that also depends on whatever the asking price was for Manaea and/Or Montas. (In the case of Montas, it was obviously a bit high, since he is still there unlike a lot of others.)

 

Manaea didn’t look like he went for much, but that doesn’t mean Forst didn’t ask for a lot from Boston.

 

 

The big surprise was holding Duran when he probably could have gotten a shut down reliever or another MLB starter that kept both Houck and Whitlock in the pen. Nothing against Duran, but there’s nowhere to play him in Boston right now…

 

I agree that the Red Sox would be better off right now if Houck, and Whitlock had both been in the pen from day one, but Sale going down did change things. Once Sale did go down though Bloom still had time to get another starter, before the season started, and he didn’t do it. As for Duran I don’t think he is going to fetch any shut down reliever at least by himself. Nowhere to play Duran in Boston right now? Kike and JBJ certainly haven’t hit well enough to lock down any position, so Duran couldn’t be any worse.

[mvp 78]

I don't know how they could rely on Sale coming back after seeing how he was last year down the stretch.

[notin]

Diekman is just not very good. He was below replacement level in 2021...

 

5 days ago his ERA was 0.00. Certainly no one thought he morphed into Sparky Lyle, but how many people thought he wasn’t wry good?

 

Two outings later and 1.1 IP later it’s 6.76 and he was a clear mistake?

[mvp 78]

5 days ago his ERA was 0.00. Certainly no one thought he morphed into Sparky Lyle, but how many people thought he wasn’t wry good?

 

Two outings later and 1.1 IP later it’s 6.76 and he was a clear mistake?

 

Clearly.

[moonslav59]

Updated. The starters are catching up.

 

5 days ago his ERA was 0.00. Certainly no one thought he morphed into Sparky Lyle, but how many people thought he wasn’t wry good?

 

Two outings later and 1.1 IP later it’s 6.76 and he was a clear mistake?

 

The day after we signed him, I went on record as saying it was a bad signing, and why 2 years, when hardly anyone gets that from Bloom.

[notin]

I agree that the Red Sox would be better off right now if Houck, and Whitlock had both been in the pen from day one, but Sale going down did change things. Once Sale did go down though Bloom still had time to get another starter, before the season started, and he didn’t do it. As for Duran I don’t think he is going to fetch any shut down reliever at least by himself. Nowhere to play Duran in Boston right now? Kike and JBJ certainly haven’t hit well enough to lock down any position, so Duran couldn’t be any worse.

 

 

Of course Duran could be worse. He might hit just as poorly and played poor defense. (He’s nowhere near as good defensively as either of them.)

 

I do disagree he isn’t worth a good reliever on his own. Especially if that reliever makes more than minimum wage. The Guardians were prime targets with their loaded bullpen and question marks in the OF (although Kwan has turned into a story on his own).

 

But getting another starter - unless they made a trade with Oakland or San Diego - was tougher. The available pitchers still on the market were just a bunch of fungible retreads…

[Old Red]

The day after we signed him, I went on record as saying it was a bad signing, and why 2 years, when hardly anyone gets that from Bloom.

 

Pat your self on the back for getting it right, and for BASHING Bloom.

[notin]

The day after we signed him, I went on record as saying it was a bad signing, and why 2 years, when hardly anyone gets that from Bloom.

 

And if, 5 days from now he brings his ERA back under 2, will you still feel that way?

 

He’s really only had one bad outing so far. I think the jury is still out, just like it was 5 days ago…

[Old Red]

Of course Duran could be worse. He might hit just as poorly and played poor defense. (He’s nowhere near as good defensively as either of them.)

 

I do disagree he isn’t worth a good reliever on his own. Especially if that reliever makes more than minimum wage. The Guardians were prime targets with their loaded bullpen and question marks in the OF (although Kwan has turned into a story on his own).

 

But getting another starter - unless they made a trade with Oakland or San Diego - was tougher. The available pitchers still on the market were just a bunch of fungible retreads…

 

Duran can’t crack an OF with 2 guys batting below 200, but could fetch a good reliever in a trade? You can go with that, but I doubt it could happen. I know he’s not as good as Kike, and JBJ on D,but what is that lineup getting you at the moment?

[notin]

Duran can’t crack an OF with 2 guys batting below 200, but could fetch a good reliever in a trade? You can go with that, but I doubt it could happen. I know he’s not as good as Kike, and JBJ on D,but what is that lineup getting you at the moment?

 

It tells me that MLB managers place some importance on defense and not so much on batting average less than 3 weeks into a season…