2022 Bullpen Thread

[Nick]

Yes, the good thing with Devers is that we still have 2 more years to hopefully work something out.

 

I think Bogaerts is as good as gone.

 

Yep. This is whey Bloom saw signing Story was a higher priority than Suzuki for reasons people here should know. It makes sense despite all the talk of Story/Xander playing together for long term.

 

I can just imagine Boras' volumes of 'reasons and benefits' as to why Xander deserves $30M/8 year deal. Good luck with that.

[mvp 78]

Yep. This is whey Bloom saw signing Story was a higher priority than Suzuki for reasons people here should know. It makes sense despite all the talk of Story/Xander playing together for long term.

 

I can just imagine Boras' volumes of 'reasons and benefits' as to why Xander deserves $30M/8 year deal. Good luck with that.

 

And there's a good chance he'll deserve that in FA and signs a contract that exhibits what he deserves.

[Bellhorn04]

And there's a good chance he'll deserve that in FA and signs a contract that exhibits what he deserves.

 

Also a good chance that if he gets 8 @ $30, the second half is an albatross.

[Nick]

Also a good chance that if he gets 8 @ $30, the second half is an albatross.

 

Xander stat line for 2021.....23 HR, 79 RBI, .863 OPS

another player's stat line.....25 HR, 78 RBI .792 OPS

 

Latter makes league minimum, do you really want to pay Xander 8 years @ $30M?

 

Borass, come again?

[Old Red]

Unlike you, I won’t speak for Xander. At best I can guess (and point it out as such).

 

But if you think Bogaerts wants Boston, why was there no counteroffer from his side? Whether or not he was insulted is immaterial. (Especially since Bogaerts was not likely there when Boston made the offer.) If Bogaerts wanted to stay, he would have already had a number in mind. Why not present it?

 

I’m not speaking for Bogey at all. I have heard him say he wants to stay in Boston. We have no idea if there was a counter offer, or not, but if just the one year added to his contract was the offer they may have just not seen any sense in any kind of counter offer since that offer wasn’t even any kind of offer to respond to. I’m sure Boris, and Bogey do have a figure in mind, and have for sometime.

[Bellhorn04]

Xander stat line for 2021.....23 HR, 79 RBI, .863 OPS

another player's stat line.....25 HR, 78 RBI .792 OPS

 

Latter makes league minimum, do you really want to pay Xander 8 years @ $30M?

 

Borass, come again?

 

Also to be noted is that Xander has a swing made for Fenway.

 

Career:

Home .870

Road .754

[notin]

I’m not speaking for Bogey at all. I have heard him say he wants to stay in Boston. We have no idea if there was a counter offer, or not, but if just the one year added to his contract was the offer they may have just not seen any sense in any kind of counter offer since that offer wasn’t even any kind of offer to respond to. I’m sure Boris, and Bogey do have a figure in mind, and have for sometime.

 

 

1. Every player always says they want to stay where they are prior to reaching free agency.

 

2. Per Heyman, there was no counter offer. You either believe the report or not, but picking and choosing what parts you believe is tantamount to making up your own story

 

3. If Bogaerts wanted to stay and especially if that was his priority, they’d make counter offer. There is no other way to make it happen.

 

It looks like Bogaerts wants Boston as long as Boston meets his price. Which means playing in Boston is not the priority for Xander.

 

And really, that’s how every player is. They don’t hire agents to get them on the teams they want to play for…

[mvp 78]

Also to be noted is that Xander has a swing made for Fenway.

 

Career:

Home .870

Road .754

 

The Fenway Effect.

[mvp 78]

1. Every player always says they want to stay where they are prior to reaching free agency.

 

2. Per Heyman, there was no counter offer. You either believe the report or not, but picking and choosing what parts you believe is tantamount to making up your own story

 

3. If Bogaerts wanted to stay and especially if that was his priority, they’d make counter offer. There is no other way to make it happen.

 

It looks like Bogaerts wants Boston as long as Boston meets his price. Which means playing in Boston is not the priority for Xander.

 

And really, that’s how every player is. They don’t hire agents to get them on the teams they want to play for…

 

If Xander signs an extension and struggles or gets hurt, it's a net positive for him.

 

If Xander signs an extension but plays like an MVP this season, it's a net negative for him.

 

If Xander doesn't sign an extension and struggles or gets hurt, he just doesn't opt out and it is no change to his current position.

 

If Xander doesn't sign an extension and plays like an MVP this season, he'll get a monster deal in FA and it's a net positive for him.

 

The only risky avenue is him signing an extension and providing play that exceeds his contract.

[dgalehouse]

1. Every player always says they want to stay where they are prior to reaching free agency.

 

2. Per Heyman, there was no counter offer. You either believe the report or not, but picking and choosing what parts you believe is tantamount to making up your own story

 

3. If Bogaerts wanted to stay and especially if that was his priority, they’d make counter offer. There is no other way to make it happen.

 

It looks like Bogaerts wants Boston as long as Boston meets his price. Which means playing in Boston is not the priority for Xander.

 

And really, that’s how every player is. They don’t hire agents to get them on the teams they want to play for…

 

One of the things that tickles me is when fans say a player should give the team a " home town discount." With few exceptions, this is not their hometown. They are hired hands , albeit well paid hired hands.

[mvp 78]

One of the things that tickles me is when fans say a player should give the team a " home town discount." With few exceptions, this is not their hometown. They are hired hands , albeit well paid hired hands.

 

Even a player like Manny Delcarmen shouldn't have to give a hometown discount.

[notin]

One of the things that tickles me is when fans say a player should give the team a " home town discount." With few exceptions, this is not their hometown. They are hired hands , albeit well paid hired hands.

 

Exactly.

 

A “hometown discount” is really a contract where the players takes less money to avoid other risks before free agency…

[Bellhorn04]

Exactly.

 

A “hometown discount” is really a contract where the players takes less money to avoid other risks before free agency…

 

There have been some players who do like staying put.

 

Wakefield and Ortiz come to mind. They kept taking short deals and not testing free agency.

[mvp 78]

There have been some players who do like staying put.

 

Wakefield and Ortiz come to mind. They kept taking short deals and not testing free agency.

 

I believe Varitek too.

[notin]

I believe Varitek too.

 

Varitek did test free agency but ultimately signed with Boston. I believe that was after 2004…

[notin]

There have been some players who do like staying put.

 

Wakefield and Ortiz come to mind. They kept taking short deals and not testing free agency.

 

There are some and very few exceptions. Bernie Williams also spurned a larger deal from the Red Sox to return to NY.

 

But Xander has that option for the next 3 years and is instead choosing to opt out. This may have always been his intention, and I don’t fault him at all for it. But it also says staying in Boston is not most important to him. It’s not his top priority. If it was, he probably never even asks for the opt out.

 

It’s his career and his life and he can manage it how he wants to. But let’s not pretend playing for the Red Sox is his most important thing when most of his actions and inactions indicate otherwise…

[Old Red]

There are some and very few exceptions. Bernie Williams also spurned a larger deal from the Red Sox to return to NY.

 

But Xander has that option for the next 3 years and is instead choosing to opt out. This may have always been his intention, and I don’t fault him at all for it. But it also says staying in Boston is not most important to him. It’s not his top priority. If it was, he probably never even asks for the opt out.

 

It’s his career and his life and he can manage it how he wants to. But let’s not pretend playing for the Red Sox is his most important thing when most of his actions and inactions indicate otherwise…

 

Just because Bogey would choose to opt out of his last three years of his contract that he would be vastly underpaid in does not mean that staying in Boston is still not his #1 priority. He has a big chance to make more money, and I don’t fault him for that, and I’m sure his number 1 option would be to make that money in Boston. He hasn’t even opted out yet, and your talking about is all his actions, and inactions.

[Kimmi]

I think the fans have an affinity for Boston, so we think the players do as well. That may not always be the case. If the grass looks greener elsewhere , they will leave Beantown. With a few exceptions of course.

 

Players almost always go after the most money with little regard to any other factors. I wish this weren't the case, but it's fact.

[Kimmi]

Yep. This is whey Bloom saw signing Story was a higher priority than Suzuki for reasons people here should know. It makes sense despite all the talk of Story/Xander playing together for long term.

 

I can just imagine Boras' volumes of 'reasons and benefits' as to why Xander deserves $30M/8 year deal. Good luck with that.

 

I think the Story signing made sense. I thought Suzuki made more sense, but there are a lot of factors beyond what I know that I'm sure were considered.

 

Xander took a discount with his first extension. For that, I'd be willing to pay him a little more than I would otherwise be willing to pay him. I wouldn't do $30M/8 though.

[Kimmi]

Even a player like Manny Delcarmen shouldn't have to give a hometown discount.

 

If a player is expecting a long term extension prior to free agency, then by all means, he should be expected to give a home team discount.

[Kimmi]

Exactly.

 

A “hometown discount” is really a contract where the players takes less money to avoid other risks before free agency…

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

[notin]

Just because Bogey would choose to opt out of his last three years of his contract that he would be vastly underpaid in does not mean that staying in Boston is still not his #1 priority. He has a big chance to make more money, and I don’t fault him for that, and I’m sure his number 1 option would be to make that money in Boston. He hasn’t even opted out yet, and your talking about is all his actions, and inactions.

 

First of all, in your own post you admit that Boston isn’t his top priority and money is. I agree and hey, it’s his career. I’ve left jobs for more money, too, and I don’t consider it trailblazing.

 

But Bogaerts isn’t “vastly” underpaid. He is a bit underpaid, but his $20mill AAV is not far behind the only two shortstops within his fWAR neighborhood - Semien ($25mill) and Story ($23mill).

 

It looked to me like X’s only goal right now is to see if the Sox blow him away. Maybe that’s why he never made a counteroffer - he didn’t have a number in mind for what it would take. Even Devers - a full year further away - made an informal counter (“about $100 million short.”). It’s a bit vague but it gives Bloom something to work with.

 

This is a business transaction that fans want to make personal so they can blame someone. Each side has a goal of getting the highes or lowest extreme. The Sox, with Story on board, have all the leverage right now. When X opts out, he will gain more leverage by having other teams to talk to.

 

And if he doesn’t talk to Boston, sure his agent might say the offer was “insulting” or whatever. But really it will be because Boston didn’t make other offers or didn’t increase the years.

 

And really, it is the years that are the problem. Xander might be able to get a better AAV than $22.5mill, but not by much. His ceiling as I’ve said all along is probably closer to $25mill.

 

But I also would be surprised if X wanted to be a free agent again at 33….

[moonslav59]

First of all, in your own post you admit that Boston isn’t his top priority and money is. I agree and hey, it’s his career. I’ve left jobs for more money, too, and I don’t consider it trailblazing.

 

But Bogaerts isn’t “vastly” underpaid. He is a bit underpaid, but his $20mill AAV is not far behind the only two shortstops within his fWAR neighborhood - Semien ($25mill) and Story ($23mill).

 

It looked to me like X’s only goal right now is to see if the Sox blow him away. Maybe that’s why he never made a counteroffer - he didn’t have a number in mind for what it would take. Even Devers - a full year further away - made an informal counter (“about $100 million short.”). It’s a bit vague but it gives Bloom something to work with.

 

This is a business transaction that fans want to make personal so they can blame someone. Each side has a goal of getting the highes or lowest extreme. The Sox, with Story on board, have all the leverage right now. When X opts out, he will gain more leverage by having other teams to talk to.

 

And if he doesn’t talk to Boston, sure his agent might say the offer was “insulting” or whatever. But really it will be because Boston didn’t make other offers or didn’t increase the years.

 

And really, it is the years that are the problem. Xander might be able to get a better AAV than $22.5mill, but not by much. His ceiling as I’ve said all along is probably closer to $25mill.

 

But I also would be surprised if X wanted to be a free agent again at 33….

 

To me, it’s more about the 8+ years he will want than the dollars, and I think there is zero chance we offer him even 7 years.

[notin]

To me, it’s more about the 8+ years he will want than the dollars, and I think there is zero chance we offer him even 7 years.

 

Since he didn’t counter, we don’t know what he wanted. But I would imagine the 4 years was the bigger disappointment than the $22.5 mill AAV. That AAV is probably in the range he should be expecting….

[Old Red]

First of all, in your own post you admit that Boston isn’t his top priority and money is. I agree and hey, it’s his career. I’ve left jobs for more money, too, and I don’t consider it trailblazing.

 

But Bogaerts isn’t “vastly” underpaid. He is a bit underpaid, but his $20mill AAV is not far behind the only two shortstops within his fWAR neighborhood - Semien ($25mill) and Story ($23mill).

 

It looked to me like X’s only goal right now is to see if the Sox blow him away. Maybe that’s why he never made a counteroffer - he didn’t have a number in mind for what it would take. Even Devers - a full year further away - made an informal counter (“about $100 million short.”). It’s a bit vague but it gives Bloom something to work with.

 

This is a business transaction that fans want to make personal so they can blame someone. Each side has a goal of getting the highes or lowest extreme. The Sox, with Story on board, have all the leverage right now. When X opts out, he will gain more leverage by having other teams to talk to.

 

And if he doesn’t talk to Boston, sure his agent might say the offer was “insulting” or whatever. But really it will be because Boston didn’t make other offers or didn’t increase the years.

 

And really, it is the years that are the problem. Xander might be able to get a better AAV than $22.5mill, but not by much. His ceiling as I’ve said all along is probably closer to $25mill.

 

But I also would be surprised if X wanted to be a free agent again at 33….

 

First of all I did not say Boston was not Bogey’s first choice, and money is. I know how it works on here that if something isn’t worded just right to fit someone else opinions then the word police come out, and try to reword it for you to try, and tell you what you actually think. Hilarious, but nowhere near accurate. If these are facts being stated it would be one thing, but they are not, and just opinions. I know it wouldn’t fit your narrative if Bogey chose curtain number 2 instead of curtain number 1 as people sometimes do. I don’t care if Bogey signs somewhere else for more money, and even if he ends up in a Yankee uniform it would not change my OPINION that his first priority was to remain in Boston. It just my OPINION. When I said Bogey was vastly underpaid I was talking about total, and not about what his per year was. I’m sure he can get more than the $60M left on his contract from someone, and will, and would not be to financially sensible not to do it. Why would anyone make a counter offer to a ridiculously lowball offer that the Red Sox put out there? Come on man is that all you got? Once again these are just my opinions, and won’t change no matter how much you word analyze, and don’t like my opinions.

[Bellhorn04]

Since he didn’t counter, we don’t know what he wanted. But I would imagine the 4 years was the bigger disappointment than the $22.5 mill AAV. That AAV is probably in the range he should be expecting….

 

In incremental terms, all they offered was 1 year @ $30 mill.

[Old Red]

In incremental terms, all they offered was 1 year @ $30 mill.

 

Exactly, and it wasn’t even worth making a counter offer for a ridiculous lowball offer the Red Sox made with that 1 year add on. The Red Sox would have been better not to make the offer at all.

[notin]

In incremental terms, all they offered was 1 year @ $30 mill.

 

 

Ok but it still covered 4 years.

 

In terms of AAV, it was probably in range. But I have to think a team needs to offer 6 years minimum for X…

[notin]

Exactly, and it wasn’t even worth making a counter offer for a ridiculous lowball offer the Red Sox made with that 1 year add on. The Red Sox would have been better not to make the offer at all.

 

Of course it was worth countering. If X has a price that would keep him in Boston, why would he NOT let Boston know? Making them play his guessing game doesn’t make him sound very serious…

[moonslav59]

Of course it was worth countering. If X has a price that would keep him in Boston, why would he NOT let Boston know? Making them play his guessing game doesn’t make him sound very serious…

 

The Sox offer was far from serious. If it was, the joke is on them.

 

I wouldn’t counter either, or I’d counter with an equally absurd demand like$400M/10. If it’s all about posturing and return offers, that should be his starting point after that crap offer of $30/1.