Red Sox trade Hunter Renfroe in trade involving Jackie Bradley Jr

[moonslav59]

Remember when many of us were considering a QO for Eovaldi?

[Bellhorn04]

Remember when many of us were considering a QO for Eovaldi?

 

If Wacha was still on the shelf, there'd be little support for a QO for him either.

[moonslav59]

If Wacha was still on the shelf, there'd be little support for a QO for him either.

 

..or, if he'd have comeback and looked shaky, like Nate did.

[Bellhorn04]

..or, if he'd have comeback and looked shaky, like Nate did.

 

Yep. With pitchers of their age and erratic histories, the Recency Effect is off the charts.

[Bellhorn04]

And IF Nate comes back and looks good in a few starts, a QO for him might came back into the conversation.

[moonslav59]

And IF Nate comes back and looks good in a few starts, a QO for him might came back into the conversation.

 

I seriously doubt it, although both Nate and Wacha have had injury issues for much of their careers.

 

It's more likely neither get a QO.

[moonslav59]

Yep. With pitchers of their age and erratic histories, the Recency Effect is off the charts.

 

Like Carlos Rodon, who will likely opt out.

 

A QO offer is not a bad idea for Wacha.

[Hugh2]

And IF Nate comes back and looks good in a few starts, a QO for him might came back into the conversation.

 

The thing about giving out QO's is even if it inflates the payroll it makes it very easy to reset the following year. Looking at a Devers extension the year after that might hold a lot of value.

[Hugh2]

I seriously doubt it, although both Nate and Wacha have had injury issues for much of their careers.

 

It's more likely neither get a QO.

 

At this point, what pitcher doesn't have some kind of injury history? It feels like everyone either has an injury or they're healthy and then you sign them and they get injured. Which is weird given how starting pitchers are throwing less innings now a days. I miss the days of old where work horses went 240 innings plus on the regular and pitched full careers.

[Hugh2]

I doubt we ever see someone pitch 332 innings and start 39 games like Nolan Ryan did back in the day. You have to think some of these guys are capable of it (not that, maybe 250/32) for many seasons but the new norm is to baby pitchers. And it doesn't seem to be resulting in a reduction of injuries at all. I could be wrong here.

[Bellhorn04]

I doubt we ever see someone pitch 332 innings and start 39 games like Nolan Ryan did back in the day. You have to think some of these guys are capable of it (not that, maybe 250/32) for many seasons but the new norm is to baby pitchers. And it doesn't seem to be resulting in a reduction of injuries at all. I could be wrong here.

 

In my opinion Ryan was just a freak of nature. The closest you will find in the current generation is Verlander, and even he finally needed TJS.

 

I still think of Billy Martin and his 1980 Oakland A's starting rotation. Billy rode them hard, and they all ended up having short careers.

 

Today's pitchers are throwing harder than ever and probably spinning the ball harder than ever too. The toll on their arms is self-evident. You're right that the babying doesn't seem to help. Not sure anything would.

[moonslav59]

Verlander is the only pitcher to crack 250 IP since 2008 (Sabathia), and he only did it once at 251 IP in 2011.

 

Since 2000:

266 Roy Halladay '03

260 Randy Johnson '02

259 Curt Schilling '02

257 Curt Schilling '01

 

The most since 2015:

233 Kershaw '15

232 Keuchel '15

230 Price '16 BOS

229 Arrieta '15

228 Scherzer '15 & '16

228 Verlander '16

227 Sale '16 CWS

227 Bumgarner '16

223 Verlander '19 MOST since 2016!

 

Zach Wheeler led MLB in IP with 213 in 2021

[Hugh2]

In my opinion Ryan was just a freak of nature. The closest you will find in the current generation is Verlander, and even he finally needed TJS.

 

I still think of Billy Martin and his 1980 Oakland A's starting rotation. Billy rode them hard, and they all ended up having short careers.

 

Today's pitchers are throwing harder than ever and probably spinning the ball harder than ever too. The toll on their arms is self-evident. You're right that the babying doesn't seem to help. Not sure anything would.

 

Oh absoltely, he's the extreme example. But overall, the days of the 200 inning pitcher are over.

[moonslav59]

Oh absoltely, he's the extreme example. But overall, the days of the 200 inning pitcher are over.

 

Yes, it looks like maybe 1-3 a year will just barely go over 200 IP.

 

It's been a steady decline for decades.

[moonslav59]

Agreed, but JBJ has a $12M option for 2023 with an absurd $8M buyout. I know 2023 is not "long term" either, but with these tight budgets we've been seeing, this is a head-scratcher.

 

The "head scratcher" comment took on a life of it's own- back in the day....

[mvp 78]

@EdHand89

Jackie Bradley Jr has been DFA'd by the Kansas City Royals. He was slashing .133/.188/.210 with one home run over 113 PA. His admittedly useful 0.5 dWAR did not do nearly enough to overshadow his offensive flaws. Might be the end of the road for an overall solid career.

[Old Red]

@EdHand89

Jackie Bradley Jr has been DFA'd by the Kansas City Royals. He was slashing .133/.188/.210 with one home run over 113 PA. His admittedly useful 0.5 dWAR did not do nearly enough to overshadow his offensive flaws. Might be the end of the road for an overall solid career.

 

Aren’t the Red Sox still paying him?

[dgalehouse]

Everyone reaches the end of the line sooner or later. Always have memories of so many great plays he made in centerfield.

[mvp 78]

Aren’t the Red Sox still paying him?

 

No, the only former players (pre-23) they are paying are Barnes (through 25), Hosmer, Manny (through 26) and Pedroia (until the sun explodes).

[moonslav59]

No, the only former players (pre-23) they are paying are Barnes (through 25), Hosmer, Manny (through 26) and Pedroia (until the sun explodes).

 

How much are we paying Hosmer?

[Bellhorn04]

@EdHand89

Jackie Bradley Jr has been DFA'd by the Kansas City Royals. He was slashing .133/.188/.210 with one home run over 113 PA. His admittedly useful 0.5 dWAR did not do nearly enough to overshadow his offensive flaws. Might be the end of the road for an overall solid career.

 

See, BA is still a thing.

[Bellhorn04]

How much are we paying Hosmer?

 

Don't even go down that rabbit hole.

[notin]

See, BA is still a thing.

 

Then why did they cite 4 other stats in that post?

[Old Red]

Then why did they cite 4 other stats in that post?

 

Different strokes for different folks.

[Nick]

Maybe Bloom can pick up JBJ to shore up our defense.

 

Get Marwin too.

[mvp 78]

See, BA is still a thing.

 

So is his 398 OPS if you have a microscope.

[Old Red]

So is his 398 OPS if you have a microscope.

 

I don’t think most would need one when it comes to JBJ.

[moonslav59]

Don't even go down that rabbit hole.

 

At the time of the trade, they said just min wage, but now the numbers vary from site to site.

 

Basically, whatever we are paying him plus Groome got us Ferguson & Rosier.