Sox signing Wacha

[notin]

Someone really really really dislikes the Wacha signing. Haha.

 

I can admit it doesn’t make my nostrils quiver…

[Tedballgame]

Per WEEI:

 

Just look at the game log for Wacha throughout 2021 and you will find what he was talking about.

 

In the righty's last seven regular season appearances (6 of which were starts), he 2.88 ERA and .167 batting average against. The difference? Well, go back to April and you would have found a pitcher who threw his cutter 150 times (his most prevalent pitch) while offering just 15 curveballs. In September, the cutter was used a total of 10 times with Wacha breaking out his bender for 49 pitches.

 

Let's hope the Sox get the 2.88 ERA Wacha. That would help the rotation.

[notin]

Per WEEI:

 

Just look at the game log for Wacha throughout 2021 and you will find what he was talking about.

 

In the righty's last seven regular season appearances (6 of which were starts), he 2.88 ERA and .167 batting average against. The difference? Well, go back to April and you would have found a pitcher who threw his cutter 150 times (his most prevalent pitch) while offering just 15 curveballs. In September, the cutter was used a total of 10 times with Wacha breaking out his bender for 49 pitches.

 

Let's hope the Sox get the 2.88 ERA Wacha. That would help the rotation.

 

 

Helpful. But not going to get me to uproot my family, move back to Massachusetts and purchase season tickets…

[moonslav59]

Moon, I used OMG because Old Red did.....

 

OK, but you have gone on and on about those of us preferring to keep Houck and Whitlock in the pen, assuming we add a quality starter or two.

 

You've said I'm a fence-sitter, and maybe I am on Whitlock, but a lot depends on who Bloom signs next.

 

I really like Houck as an 80-100 IP RP'er with many high leverage innings. I know he's young enough, and I think he's good enough to be a decent to good starter- maybe even great, but he's really struggled the 3rd time facing batters. The sample size is small, so these numbers are not the only story, but they are frightening, to me:

 

Houck Career:

.485 1st PA as SP (144 PAs against)/.535 as RP (39 PA)

.618 2nd PA as SP (134 PAs)/ .000 as RP (just 3 PA)

1.081 3rd PA as SP (just 27 PAs)

 

FYI:

Whitlock as a RP'er:

.645 1st PA (285 PAs against)

 

If we trade for someone like Montas, I want both in the pen.

 

If we sign a second Wacha, I'd want Whitlock in the pen, but I doubt it happens, if we sign another SP'er. We'll have...

 

Eovaldi

Sale

Pivetta

SP added

Wacha

Seabold/Winckowski/Crawford/Bello

 

.321 2nd PA (13 PA)

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

Per WEEI:

 

Just look at the game log for Wacha throughout 2021 and you will find what he was talking about.

 

In the righty's last seven regular season appearances (6 of which were starts), he 2.88 ERA and .167 batting average against. The difference? Well, go back to April and you would have found a pitcher who threw his cutter 150 times (his most prevalent pitch) while offering just 15 curveballs. In September, the cutter was used a total of 10 times with Wacha breaking out his bender for 49 pitches.

 

Let's hope the Sox get the 2.88 ERA Wacha. That would help the rotation.

 

If this are analytics, it won't work.

[Bellhorn04]

Oooh I know!! I know!!

 

Neither team!

 

The Astros won the ALCS this year….

 

D'oh! ALDS.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

D'oh! ALDS.

 

Well, the team that didn't win that had their Manager of the Year start three rookies in a row against a pretty good offense...

 

Something to ponder about the improved, end-of-year Wacha, who relied more on breaking stuff: his ERA came on the AL's second-best team in Defensive Efficiency. Wacha's new club was last in the majors in '21 (I know it's only November, but where are the better fielders coming from again?).

[Old Red]

Exactly! What does Wacha’s last season have to do with2022?

 

We can’t use any history to judge anything.

 

Maybe the O’s win 100 games!

 

Last season! When was the last time Whack a was any good? So now he’s just gonna turn things around, because he is in Boston? History is who you are, and not what you are gonna be. All the hope in the world won’t make Whack a any better.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe Wacha will be 2022's Pivetta. Pivetta was a lot better than expected this year. That's the way baseball is.

 

The bottom line is, you're not going to get a guaranteed stud starter for $7 million.

 

It costs $77 million just to get you E-Rod, who had a 4.74 ERA this year.

[Old Red]

Exactly! What does Wacha’s last season have to do with2022?

 

We can’t use any history to judge anything.

 

Maybe the O’s win 100 games!

 

Moon. Why did the Sox sign Sale? Was it because he had a history of being a good pitcher??

[Bellhorn04]

Moon. Why did the Sox sign Sale? Was it because he had a history of being a good pitcher??

 

Of course. He was also very expensive for that reason.

[Old Red]

Of course. He was also very expensive for that reason.

 

That’s my point that you judge by past history.

[Bellhorn04]

That’s my point that you judge by past history.

 

Right, but the other point is, for $7 million, you're going to get a guy with weaker numbers. He's $7 million for a reason. Bloom has shown he can find some undervalued players, so why not have a little trust that he has done his due diligence and thinks it's a worthwhile play?

[Hugh2]

Moon. Why did the Sox sign Sale? Was it because he had a history of being a good pitcher??

 

That's a massively inappropriate comparison. Sale is your #1 starting pitcher, Wacha is presumably #5 or possibly the swingman. You also gave up multiple top prospects for 1 year of control in him, one of which being the #1 prospect in all of baseball. Wacha......get 7 million dollars for one year. You're not signing him to be a front end starter.

 

Investing hundreds of millions and top prospects demands a track record while taking a chance on a guy who your scouts think can turn it around for ONE year is apples and oranges. Hell, one isn't even a fruit, or food, it's like apples and rocks.

[dgalehouse]

Yeah no one understands why people might have faith in Bloom! I mean, a lot of people predicted last years team would win 75 games!! And damnit, they were all right! And would have been even more right if the Sox didn’t with those 17 other games!! And those 7 postseason games!!

 

Bloom should have earned some credibility last year. Just because he didn’t win a ring doesn’t mean he didn’t do a good job and show he knows what he’s doing…

Actually, I think the Wacha deal might work out well. He has shown that he can be good. So, I have some hope here. I just get a kick out of how some devoted Bloom fans seem to take it personally whenever someone criticizes anything Chaim does or doesn't do.

[notin]

Right, but the other point is, for $7 million, you're going to get a guy with weaker numbers. He's $7 million for a reason. Bloom has shown he can find some undervalued players, so why not have a little trust that he has done his due diligence and thinks it's a worthwhile play?

 

 

Well, it was $7mill to get him to take a one year deal. He might have been asking for 2 years $10mill. Is he a better value as a $5mill AAV pitcher that you have to take a bigger gamble on?

[notin]

Actually, I think the Wacha deal might work out well. He has shown that he can be good. So, I have some hope here. I just get a kick out of how some devoted Bloom fans seem to take it personally whenever someone criticizes anything Chaim does or doesn't do.

 

Well, it’s not that. It’s that you openly criticize anyone who praises Bloom at all…

[notin]

So like Gausman, Scherzer is apparently on the cusp.

 

Scherzer is a little more predictable in that he will clearly just take the most money. He has to. He really has no choice.

 

Apparently Scherzer is one of 8 players on the Executive Board of the MLBPA. This is the very board that delivers the message to players to take as much money as possible so as to increase the value of their peers. It would be hypocritical in a big way if Scherzer took a lesser offer for whatever reason after being part of an organization that criticizes players for doing the same thing.

 

The only other free agent on this board is Marcus Semien, I believe. So when it comes to Scherzer and Semien, the signing strategy is very simple - most money. There will be no bargains or hometown discounts or “better chances to win”…

[Old Red]

Actually, I think the Wacha deal might work out well. He has shown that he can be good. So, I have some hope here. I just get a kick out of how some devoted Bloom fans seem to take it personally whenever someone criticizes anything Chaim does or doesn't do.

 

Rays signed Kluber for $8M/1. So Kluber, or Whack a?

[Old Red]

That's a massively inappropriate comparison. Sale is your #1 starting pitcher, Wacha is presumably #5 or possibly the swingman. You also gave up multiple top prospects for 1 year of control in him, one of which being the #1 prospect in all of baseball. Wacha......get 7 million dollars for one year. You're not signing him to be a front end starter.

 

Investing hundreds of millions and top prospects demands a track record while taking a chance on a guy who your scouts think can turn it around for ONE year is apples and oranges. Hell, one isn't even a fruit, or food, it's like apples and rocks.

 

Your right about that. Whack a is a rock.

[Old Red]

That's a massively inappropriate comparison. Sale is your #1 starting pitcher, Wacha is presumably #5 or possibly the swingman. You also gave up multiple top prospects for 1 year of control in him, one of which being the #1 prospect in all of baseball. Wacha......get 7 million dollars for one year. You're not signing him to be a front end starter.

 

Investing hundreds of millions and top prospects demands a track record while taking a chance on a guy who your scouts think can turn it around for ONE year is apples and oranges. Hell, one isn't even a fruit, or food, it's like apples and rocks.

 

I get what you are saying, but Moon says you can’t use history to judge Anything, and I don’t think that is true.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I get what you are saying, but Moon says you can’t use history to judge Anything, and I don’t think that is true.

 

Those who keep repeating it condemn us not to fogedaboudit.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So like Gausman, Scherzer is apparently on the cusp.

 

Scherzer is a little more predictable in that he will clearly just take the most money. He has to. He really has no choice.

 

Apparently Scherzer is one of 8 players on the Executive Board of the MLBPA. This is the very board that delivers the message to players to take as much money as possible so as to increase the value of their peers. It would be hypocritical in a big way if Scherzer took a lesser offer for whatever reason after being part of an organization that criticizes players for doing the same thing.

 

The only other free agent on this board is Marcus Semien, I believe. So when it comes to Scherzer and Semien, the signing strategy is very simple - most money. There will be no bargains or hometown discounts or “better chances to win”…

 

I seem to recall reports at the trade deadline that Scherzer wanted to go the West Coast -- where he went and thrived. If LA offers him $50M for two years, would Max instead sign with NY for $51? I dunno, but I never thought he'd be a realistic candidate for Bloom because of both cost and age.

 

As for Semien, his "most money" goal rules out Boston for sure. Maybe that explains why the Sox are one of three finalists for Baez -- as rumored today. The other clubs are the Tigers and Mets...

 

Detroit is reportedly in on Baez because they don't want to spend $300M on Correa or Seager. But if Boston really wanted him, think of the pitch: "Would you rather play with the Mets -- who just signed three other position players; the Tigers -- to play behind ERod; or the Red Sox -- where you can reunite with Alex Cora? Which team is closest to the World Series?"

[Old Red]

Actually, I think the Wacha deal might work out well. He has shown that he can be good. So, I have some hope here. I just get a kick out of how some devoted Bloom fans seem to take it personally whenever someone criticizes anything Chaim does or doesn't do.

 

Agree on the Bloom analysis. He hasn’t done anything great in Boston, and he hasn’t done anything bad. Criticize when he does bad, and praise when he does something good is the way it should be.

[Bellhorn04]

Agree on the Bloom analysis. He hasn’t done anything great in Boston, and he hasn’t done anything bad. Criticize when he does bad, and praise when he does something good is the way it should be.

 

Making it to the 6th game of the ALCS in your second season when you haven't been able to spend much, or trade much, is pretty good, IMHO.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Bellhorn04

[Old Red]

Making it to the 6th game of the ALCS in your second season when you haven't been able to spend much is pretty good, IMHO.

 

That’s why Bloom is here to do what he can with the small allowance JH is giving him. Theo, or Dombrowski would not work like this.

[Bellhorn04]

That’s why Bloom is here to do what he can with the small allowance JH is giving him. Theo, or Dombrowski would not work like this.

 

Bloom will get his chance to spend. Henry's not a penny-pincher, he's just doesn't want to toss money down the drain as we have done sometimes.

[Old Red]

Bloom will get his chance to spend. Henry's not a penny-pincher, he's just doesn't want to toss money down the drain as we have done sometimes.

 

JH is not the big spender he used to be. He’s got to many other endeavors going on then he used to have.

[Bellhorn04]

JH is not the big spender he used to be. He’s got to many other endeavors going on then he used to have.

 

We'll see. The Sox had the highest payrolls in the game in 2018 and 2019. Not so long ago. I think JH really wanted to re-set.

 

Personally I think JH is a very smart dude. And he knows Red Sox Nation will not abide going cheap for long.

 

Keep the faith, man. There are good times to come.

[Old Red]

We'll see. The Sox had the highest payrolls in the game in 2018 and 2019. Not so long ago. I think JH really wanted to re-set.

 

Personally I think JH is a very smart dude. And he knows Red Sox Nation will not abide going cheap for long.

 

Keep the faith, man. There are good times to come.

 

I’ve had the faith for 60+ years, and I haven’t given up yet.