Will JD Martinez pick up his player option for $19.35M?

[moonslav59]

Would last year's team have been better if they had Price instead of Richards and Perez?

 

This year's team, no.

 

Perez was our ace after 11 starts.

 

Richards was our top RP'er for a couple weeks.

 

Price would not have helped.

 

As for "last year?" Price didn't play, Richards was not here, and Perez basically sucked.

[moonslav59]

I can see that.

 

But who plays shortstop for us in 2022?

 

I just threw out one example: here's another.

 

Trade Bogey for someone like Urquidy and sign Baez to $20M x 4 or 5 yrs. That's cheaper than extending Bogey to $30M x 8.

[moonslav59]

Yes, but also his trade value may be relatively low since there are a lot of FA SS that are available right now.

 

I'm not so sure about that.

 

$20M for 1 year is less money and less long term risk than the top FA SSs will get.

 

Teams losing their stud SS will maybe want a replacement.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yes, but also his trade value may be relatively low since there are a lot of FA SS that are available right now.

 

This is a good point, and also brings up this question about not just his trade value, but his opportunities as a free agent a year from now: after all the big spenders have their new shortstops in place for 2022, how many other teams -- eager to pay the seven figures it will presumably take to sign X -- will see Bogaerts as a longterm answer at shortstop?

 

There may not be a lot of markets left for Bogie as a shortstop; as a hitter, yes, but career .290 batters and .812 OPS men aren't quite as valuable and Silver Sluggerish at other positions.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

What second 16M?

 

First half paid to Price. Second half paid to Perez and Richards. If Price was here, they still could have brought in Renfroe and Kiké.

 

If they still had Price instead of Perez and Richards, it would've cost twice as much; money that was subsequently used elsewhere.

[mvp 78]

True, but the flip side is most of them are expected to command top dollar. A team like Houston might not be able to accommodate Story or Baez with that they are offering Correa, but they are also the defending AL champions and need to address what is now a rather large hole in their lineup...

 

But it's either pay top dollar, or pay 20M plus give up a valuable piece to obtain Xander for only one season.

 

Sounds like FA may be the better bet in this situation.

[mvp 78]

This year's team, no.

 

Perez was our ace after 11 starts.

 

Richards was our top RP'er for a couple weeks.

 

Price would not have helped.

 

As for "last year?" Price didn't play, Richards was not here, and Perez basically sucked.

 

It's the offseason. Last year was 2021. 2020 was two seasons ago.

[mvp 78]

I just threw out one example: here's another.

 

Trade Bogey for someone like Urquidy and sign Baez to $20M x 4 or 5 yrs. That's cheaper than extending Bogey to $30M x 8.

 

It's cheaper, but Baez is a big downgrade from Bogey. You're paying the same amount, but getting less of a return.

[mvp 78]

I'm not so sure about that.

 

$20M for 1 year is less money and less long term risk than the top FA SSs will get.

 

Teams losing their stud SS will maybe want a replacement.

 

They are worried about losing a stud SS, but are happy to grab a one year rental?

[mvp 78]

If they still had Price instead of Perez and Richards, it would've cost twice as much; money that was subsequently used elsewhere.

 

How?

 

Sox in 2021 paid 16M directly to Price.

 

They used the other half to pay Richards and Perez.

 

There is no other amount remaining.

[notin]

They are worried about losing a stud SS, but are happy to grab a one year rental?

 

Hey, they almost won a title in 2021, anddid so without any allegations of cheating. Should they just wait until the next great Astro team can be assembled?

 

Don't forget - when LA acquired Betts, he was still technically a rental. They weren't able to extend him for a few months, and possibly helped out by a pandemic. But from the time the season was postponed until they extended Betts, the Dodgers were also facing the possibility of acquiring Betts and having him never suit up...

[moonslav59]

It's the offseason. Last year was 2021. 2020 was two seasons ago.

 

So, this season is 2022?

 

The English language is so messed up.

[moonslav59]

They are worried about losing a stud SS, but are happy to grab a one year rental?

 

Did I say "Happy?"

 

If the Astros lose Correa, will they be happier not replacing him at all?

[mvp 78]

So, this season is 2022?

 

The English language is so messed up.

 

It was pretty obvious which season I referenced to SINCE I SAID RICHARDS WAS ON THE PAYROLL.

[notin]

One factor against dealing Bogaerts might be the lack of suitors.

 

The Astros are a prime landing spot because they are losing a star shortstop but as defending AL Champions, have an immediate need to address this situation. The only other team in a similar position might be the Giants, who are losing Crawford.

 

The Dodgers are a possibility but have already executed Plan B by acquiring Trea Turner. The Mets might lose Baez, but they do have Lindor. The Rockies will lose Story, but they're not as likely to break the bank for a rental because there is a pretty good chance they are going to suck in 2022 just as much as they did in 2021.

[moonslav59]

It was pretty obvious which season I referenced to SINCE I SAID RICHARDS WAS ON THE PAYROLL.

 

Yes, and I answered that point, because I saw that.

[mvp 78]

Hey, they almost won a title in 2021, anddid so without any allegations of cheating. Should they just wait until the next great Astro team can be assembled?

 

Don't forget - when LA acquired Betts, he was still technically a rental. They weren't able to extend him for a few months, and possibly helped out by a pandemic. But from the time the season was postponed until they extended Betts, the Dodgers were also facing the possibility of acquiring Betts and having him never suit up...

 

Are they more likely to extend Xander during 2022 than they were with Correa in 2021?

[notin]

It's cheaper, but Baez is a big downgrade from Bogey. You're paying the same amount, but getting less of a return.

 

Well, he is also proposing Baez plus Urquidy in place of Bogaerts. The real problem is the assumption that Baez will settle for a 4 year/$80mill contract. I think both numbers are probably low...

[notin]

Are they more likely to extend Xander during 2022 than they were with Correa in 2021?

 

They're more likely to be able to afford Bogaerts for 2022 than they are to sign Correa or Story or Seager. They might be able to afford Baez. Brandon Crawford is coming off a terrific season and is probably closer to their price range, but are they better off with one year of 29yo Bogaert or committing multiple (possibly not cheap) years to 35yo Brandon Crawford?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

How?

 

Sox in 2021 paid 16M directly to Price.

 

They used the other half to pay Richards and Perez.

 

There is no other amount remaining.

 

Respectfully, I was replying to your question: "Would last year's team have been better if they had Price instead of Richards and Perez?"

 

Performances notwithstanding, I said no because of the literal cost alone. Again, if the Sox still had Price, they would've been on the hook to pay his entire '21 salary, which I believe was twice as much as they paid to Richards and Perez last year.

[mvp 78]

They're more likely to be able to afford Bogaerts for 2022 than they are to sign Correa or Story or Seager. They might be able to afford Baez. Brandon Crawford is coming off a terrific season and is probably closer to their price range, but are they better off with one year of 29yo Bogaert or committing multiple (possibly not cheap) years to 35yo Brandon Crawford?

 

Do we know what their price range is?

[Bellhorn04]

Respectfully, I was replying to your question: "Would last year's team have been better if they had Price instead of Richards and Perez?"

 

Performances notwithstanding, I said no because of the literal cost alone. Again, if the Sox still had Price, they would've been on the hook to pay his entire '21 salary, which I believe was twice as much as they paid to Richards and Perez last year.

 

We were already on the hook for 16 mill to Price, so it would have been an additional 15 mill.

[moonslav59]

One factor against dealing Bogaerts might be the lack of suitors.

 

The Astros are a prime landing spot because they are losing a star shortstop but as defending AL Champions, have an immediate need to address this situation. The only other team in a similar position might be the Giants, who are losing Crawford.

 

The Dodgers are a possibility but have already executed Plan B by acquiring Trea Turner. The Mets might lose Baez, but they do have Lindor. The Rockies will lose Story, but they're not as likely to break the bank for a rental because there is a pretty good chance they are going to suck in 2022 just as much as they did in 2021.

 

There might be other teams willing to trade for Bogey and his one year deal- perhaps in hopes of extending him.

 

I just find it kind of strange that if Bogey is as good as many here feel he is, myself included, nobody will give up anything of value for 1 year of him as a good rate of $20M.

[mvp 78]

There might be other teams willing to trade for Bogey and his one year deal- perhaps in hopes of extending him.

 

I just find it kind of strange that if Bogey is as good as many here feel he is, myself included, nobody will give up anything of value for 1 year of him as a good rate of $20M.

 

Because it's only for one year. It's like trading one year of a 4 fWAR guy for 4 years of a 1 fWAR guy.

[moonslav59]

BTV accepted Bogey, Duran and Dalbec to HOU for Garcia.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

We were already on the hook for 16 mill to Price, so it would have been an additional 15 mill.

 

2021 Salary numbers from bb-ref: Richards $8.5, Perez $4.5, though "values may not include every bonus the player received during a season." I had seen/heard Richards' was closer to 10, with Perez at 6.

[moonslav59]

Because it's only for one year. It's like trading one year of a 4 fWAR guy for 4 years of a 1 fWAR guy.

 

In theory, yes, but we got 5 years of Verdugo for 1 year of Betts- not to mention Wong, Downs and a ton of salary space (Betts for 1 year and half of Price for 3 years).

 

The part about trading Bogey is the same but to a lesser degree.

 

If we don't extend him at $28M x 7, assuming he takes that, we will, in theory, have that money to spend on other players PLUS that 1 WAR player for 4 years.

Edited November 12, 2021 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

2021 Salary numbers from bb-ref: Richards $8.5, Perez $4.5, though "values may not include every bonus the player received during a season." I had seen/heard Richards' was closer to 10, with Perez at 6.

 

Richards' total cost was $10 mill - $8.5 mill salary plus 1.5 mill buyout of option.

 

You do need to be an accountant to figure out some of this stuff.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Richards' total cost was $10 mill - $8.5 mill salary plus 1.5 mill buyout of option.

 

You do need to be an accountant to figure out some of this stuff.

 

I'm not even accountable to myself.

[Bellhorn04]

In theory, yes, but we got 5 years of Verdugo for 1 year of Betts- not to mention Wong, Downs and a ton of salary space (Betts for 1 year and half of Price for 3 years).

 

The part about trading Bogey is the same but to a lesser degree.

 

If we don't extend him at $28M x 7, assuming he takes that, we will, in theory, have that money to spend on other players PLUS that 1 WAR player for 4 years.

 

It's pretty much a lateral move. Would you rather have that 1 WAR player or the draft pick?