The 2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[Old Red]

I agree. $300 million is a pretty steep offer to float out there if you don’t mean it…

 

It appeased some fans.

[moonslav59]

Pure speculation based on nothing.

 

We already know that Mookie came close to accepting a previous offer for a lower amount, so there's nothing to suggest the Sox weren't bargaining in good faith.

 

"Pretend" was rather harsh.

 

I do think it was a legit offer, even though they knew he would not accept, which is typical of first offers.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox knew he wouldn’t sign for $300M, and Mookie knew the Sox weren’t going any higher, so call it what you want, but either way Mookie was getting out of Boston, and did,

 

The Sox may have gone slightly over $300M, but when the $420 came back, they knew the writing was on the wall.

[mvp 78]

We still litigate the Lester contract offer. I look forward to talking about Mookie for the next 10 years. It's going to go well and we will definitely come to a conclusion and sway people to all agree about what were the true intentions of Mookie, Mookie's mom and Red Sox Management.

[moonslav59]

It appeased some fans.

 

Like the final offer made to Lester, which I feel they hoped he'd never take.

[notin]

It appeased some fans.

 

$300 mill is pretty risky for PR purposes.

 

I have no reason to believe the offer wasn’t legitimate. I hold the FO accountable for maybe not negotiating further, but I find a $300 mill PR stunt ludicrous…

[notin]

Like the final offer made to Lester, which I feel they hoped he'd never take.

 

The Lester offer was a clear lowball. Different story altogether…

[Old Red]

$300 mill is pretty risky for PR purposes.

 

I have no reason to believe the offer wasn’t legitimate. I hold the FO accountable for maybe not negotiating further, but I find a $300 mill PR stunt ludicrous…

 

This is exactly what I meant that it appeased some fans.

[Bellhorn04]

The Red Sox knew he wouldn’t sign for $300M, and Mookie knew the Sox weren’t going any higher, so call it what you want, but either way Mookie was getting out of Boston, and did,

 

Total speculation based on nothing.

 

What's not speculation is that Mookie stated himself that he came very close to accepting an earlier extension offer (which was reported as $200 million for 8 years).

[Bellhorn04]

Like the final offer made to Lester, which I feel they hoped he'd never take.

 

Well, Theo kind of made sure of it by beating the Sox offer by $20 million...

[Old Red]

Total speculation based on nothing.

 

What's not speculation is that Mookie stated himself that he came very close to accepting an earlier extension offer (which was reported as $200 million for 8 years).

 

Pretty much everything on here is nothing, but speculation, and so is all these offers that was so called reported. I’m waiting now for the next big speculation offer to either Bogey, or Raffy.

[moonslav59]

The Lester offer was a clear lowball. Different story altogether…

 

I was talking about their final offer, once he became a FA.

[moonslav59]

$300 mill is pretty risky for PR purposes.

 

I have no reason to believe the offer wasn’t legitimate. I hold the FO accountable for maybe not negotiating further, but I find a $300 mill PR stunt ludicrous…

 

Were they afraid he'd take a $320M counteroffer?

 

We will likely never know.

[mvp 78]

Pretty much everything on here is nothing, but speculation, and so is all these offers that was so called reported. I’m waiting now for the next big speculation offer to either Bogey, or Raffy.

 

When Bogey and/or Raffy leave:

 

Poster 1: Sox didn't give him/them a competitive offer!

Poster 2: Sure they did!

Poster 3: They gave him/them an offer, but it wasn't a REAL offer. They knew he/they wouldn't take it. It was just for the fans.

Poster 2: It was the offer the best offer they wanted to make.

Poster 1: They should have given a more competitive offer.

Poster 4: But they couldn't! It would have messed up their budget.

Poster 5: And what would happen if there was an injury? Older players just break down. That's going to be about 3 years of a drain on the payroll. He'll/they'll only be worth if for the first 5 years.

Poster 6: Or not.

Mod: Poster 6 is now banned.

[mvp 78]

Total speculation based on nothing.

 

What's not speculation is that Mookie stated himself that he came very close to accepting an earlier extension offer (which was reported as $200 million for 8 years).

 

I thought you were worried about that horse lying there?

[Bellhorn04]

Were they afraid he'd take a $320M counteroffer?

 

Not sure what this means.

[Old Red]

When Bogey and/or Raffy leave:

 

Poster 1: Sox didn't give him/them a competitive offer!

Poster 2: Sure they did!

Poster 3: They gave him/them an offer, but it wasn't a REAL offer. They knew he/they wouldn't take it. It was just for the fans.

Poster 2: It was the offer the best offer they wanted to make.

Poster 1: They should have given a more competitive offer.

Poster 4: But they couldn't! It would have messed up their budget.

Poster 5: And what would happen if there was an injury? Older players just break down. That's going to be about 3 years of a drain on the payroll. He'll/they'll only be worth if for the first 5 years.

Poster 6: Or not.

Mod: Poster 6 is now banned.

 

And just when you think you know the answers they change the questions.

[Bellhorn04]

I thought you were worried about that horse lying there?

 

You're right, I beat dead horses too.

[moonslav59]

Not sure what this means.

 

Maybe they did not counter with $320, because they did not want to pay him that much. They felt the $300M offer was good enough to please the fans.

 

As related to the initial low-ball Lester offer, one of the biggest issues of contention was the lack of a counter offer until he reached free agency and it became clear Theo was not going to be outbid.

[Bellhorn04]

As related to the initial low-ball Lester offer, one of the biggest issues of contention was the lack of a counter offer until he reached free agency and it became clear Theo was not going to be outbid.

 

But if the reports are true, Lester was treating the Sox very much as a contender for his services. He even took the step of informing the Giants it was down to the Sox and the Cubs.

 

Theo had to pay a pretty hefty premium to close the deal.

[mvp 78]

And just when you think you know the answers they change the questions.

 

I just know we have the same few conversations that repeat over and over again. I'm not sure I've ever seen someone change their mind because of an argument on here.

[mvp 78]

You're right, I beat dead horses too.

 

It's better to do when they are dead than still living.

 

Today, all of our horses are out in the field and we don't know when they are coming back. Not much to talk about with all the tumbleweeds scooting by.

[mvp 78]

But if the reports are true, Lester was treating the Sox very much as a contender for his services. He even took the step of informing the Giants it was down to the Sox and the Cubs.

 

Theo had to pay a pretty hefty premium to close the deal.

 

Mookie never got to FA. We'd have a clearer answer (maybe) about this if that happened.

[mvp 78]

Mookie never got to FA. We'd have a clearer answer (maybe) about this if that happened.

 

Is this a better question? Would the Sox have been more inclined to give Mookie a higher offer in FA after the 2020 season?

 

1. Coming off a horrible year.

2. They had reset the lux tax penalties.

[Old Red]

Mookie never got to FA. We'd have a clearer answer (maybe) about this if that happened.

 

Mookie didn’t get to FA, because the Sox didn’t want to let him walk out the door, and get nothing for him. Knowing in my opinion that the Sox were not going to get Mookie to sign a new contract I would have traded Mookie after 2018, and possibly got more for him like some pitching.

[mvp 78]

Mookie didn’t get to FA, because the Sox didn’t want to let him walk out the door, and get nothing for him. Knowing in my opinion that the Sox were not going to get Mookie to sign a new contract I would have traded Mookie after 2018, and possibly got more for him like some pitching.

 

I meant if the Dodger traded for him and Mookie refused to sign a deal until the next offseason.

[mvp 78]

Here's a list of the Sox Minor League Free Agents:

 

RHP Jose Adames

C Roldani Baldwin (re-signed 2/2)

RHP Seth Blair

RHP Colten Brewer (gone)

RHP Matt Carasiti

LHP Enmanuel De Jesus (gone)

2B Chad De La Guerra

RHP Jose De Leon (gone)

RHP Jose Disla

RHP Jose Espada

RHP Raynel Espinal

OF Michael Gettys (re-signed)

LHP Stephen Gonsalves (I believe signed elsewhere)

RHP Daniel Gossett

RHP Zac Grotz

C Christopher Herrmann

SS Jose Iglesias

LHP Matt Kent (gone)

SS Jack Lopez (gone 2/9)

OF Tate Matheny

1B Joey Meneses (gone)

OF Johan Mieses (re-signed)

3B Yairo Munoz

1B Josh Ockimey (GONE 2/14)

LHP Tyler Olson

LHP Yorvin Pantoja

RHP Brad Peacock

C Jhonny Pereda (gone)

RHP Denyi Reyes (gone)

RHP Yacksel Rios (gone)

SS Jeremy Rivera

 

@josh_ock

Excited to announce that I’ve signed with the Philadelphia Phillies! Thrilled to have the opportunity to play for the organization of my hometown. Looking forward to this year ⚾️

[notin]

I meant if the Dodger traded for him and Mookie refused to sign a deal until the next offseason.

 

Mookie did make it sound like testing free agency was important to him. I suppose it’s possible his $400mill counteroffer was not a serious one, either. “Sure I’ll re-sign. For oh maybe half a billion. Or heck - make it $400million.” If we think teams make non-serious offers solely for PR purposes, why do we think players don’t? (And why would anyone think the offer to Lester was for PR only? It netted exactly 0 characters worth of positive ink.)

 

Maybe the pandemic heavily influenced Mookie’s decision more than we realize…

[notin]

@josh_ock

Excited to announce that I’ve signed with the Philadelphia Phillies! Thrilled to have the opportunity to play for the organization of my hometown. Looking forward to this year ⚾️

 

While I understand his enthusiasm and confidence, does anyone think he makes his MLB debut for his hometown team?

[S5Dewey]

While I understand his enthusiasm and confidence, does anyone think he makes his MLB debut for his hometown team?

 

I'm a little disappointed that he didn't catch on with the Sox. I've been following his career more closely than other minor leaguers since he was my seat-mate on a flight from Philadelphia to Ft. Myers when he was getting to start his rookie season.

 

Whether he makes his debut for the Phil's or not is beside the point. The Sox had made it plain that he didn't fit into their future plans and now he's had a chance to go 'home' and try his luck there. The landscape is littered with players who didn't quite make it and maybe Ockimey is going to be one of them but at least he's got a chance to go home and find out. Worse things than that have happened to a young man!