10/5 WC Game vs Yankess

[a700hitter]

With all RP'ers, ERA means very little, and career numbers, too.

 

The recency effect pulls the most weight.

The problem is “recency” can end with immediacy with a reversion to his 5+ ERA streaks with EBH galore mixed in with a healthy helping of wild pitches. When he comes into a game I need a Xanax

Edited October 7, 2021 by a700hitter

[a700hitter]

Robles has been pitching amazingly well for over a month now. Seems like they made some little tweak that made him better. That's the way baseball is now.

I get that, but... He’s still a bum. And I have seen too much of his bumness over the years.

[moonslav59]

... and I did not say fire Cora this winter.

 

Quote Originally Posted by Old Red View Post

Look ifSale would have pitched yesterday, and got knocked around I would have said I was wrong, but he didn’t, and it worked out, which I’m glad. As for Cora who said anything about hating him. I read lots of negative Cora comments the past week, and more than one have said to fire him, so it’s not just me, but I have never said I hate Cora, and I don’t it’s strictly for his cheating. You like to over exaggerate just like with this short rest thing that is way over exaggerated. Throw 120 pitches, and then it will mean something.

 

So, this does not mean you want him fired?

[moonslav59]

The problem is “decency” can end with immediacy with a reversion to his 5+ ERA streaks with EBH galore mixed in with a healthy helping of wild pitches. When he comes into a game I need a Xanax

 

No doubt.

 

I was on pins and needles, too, but I'd have been stuck with needles and pins with almost anyone else.

[Thunder]

Last night was fun until I fell asleep in the 7th inning. It felt magical. Multiple instances during the regular season have felt magical as well. Curious to see how far this team can go. I'm experiencing my first Boston sports playoff season since I moved here, and I'm loving every second of it so far.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I don't understand why they didn't pitch around him.

 

Nate struck out Stanton in his second at bat on a high fastball; this was how the Sox got him out in the first half of the season. I was surprised/disappointed that catchers didn't target the same area his last two trips. Instead, Stanton got lower pitches he could extend on... maybe Braiser and Whitlock just missed their spots.

[Old Red]

Quote Originally Posted by Old Red View Post

Look ifSale would have pitched yesterday, and got knocked around I would have said I was wrong, but he didn’t, and it worked out, which I’m glad. As for Cora who said anything about hating him. I read lots of negative Cora comments the past week, and more than one have said to fire him, so it’s not just me, but I have never said I hate Cora, and I don’t it’s strictly for his cheating. You like to over exaggerate just like with this short rest thing that is way over exaggerated. Throw 120 pitches, and then it will mean something.

 

So, this does not mean you want him fired?

 

How many times are we going to beat this Cora thing to death? I’ve already said I wouldn’t have hired him back in the first place, and I said why. I also said I liked Cora, and he’s good in the clubhouse, and the players like him, but you said about firing him this winter, and if I was firing him i wouldn’t wait to this winter, and like this previous post said there were lots of negative Cora comments, and more than one said to fire him. Nice guy, but I just don’t think that good of game manager.

[Old Red]

You said "hopefully he is gone after this year". That's pretty close.

 

He didn't panic last night, just the opposite. The easy thing would have been to leave Eovaldi in like the fans wanted.

 

Cora has stones, is what he has.

 

And Stanton hit a rocket off Eovaldi in the first. He's been red-hot for a while.

 

No the easy thing to do was to take him out, which he did, and if he had stones he would have left him in. Stanton was hitting rockets off everyone, and that included Bra, who just had a day off, but had thrown tons of pitches the last week, and Whitlock too. Before Cora took EO out Judge hit a little dribbler to SS, and had only thrown 70 pitches. Even at that point I would rather have had EO pitch to Stanton than Bra, who almost gave up a 2 run homer, or Whitlock who did give up a homer to him. If Stanton drive had been a homer off Bra, or Judge hadn’t been thrown out at the plate it could have been a different game, and a different turnout. Most on here last night said to leave EO, and I agreed 100%.

[Slasher9]

WTFCora!

[moonslav59]

How many times are we going to beat this Cora thing to death? I’ve already said I wouldn’t have hired him back in the first place, and I said why. I also said I liked Cora, and he’s good in the clubhouse, and the players like him, but you said about firing him this winter, and if I was firing him i wouldn’t wait to this winter, and like this previous post said there were lots of negative Cora comments, and more than one said to fire him. Nice guy, but I just don’t think that good of game manager.

 

I'm not beating a dead horse. You basically said, it's "not just me" who wants him fired, this winter, then just said "I did not say fire Cora, this winter."

 

You said two seeming opposite things, so I asked. If I misrepresented your opinion(s), I'm sorry.

 

I also asked you a few times, if you still wanted him gone after this season, and you never relied, so it's not like I keep asking you something you've already answered.

 

I'm fine with you having a different opinion, but I just wanted to see if your opinion had changed. I'm still not sure, after today's statement.

[moonslav59]

Nate struck out Stanton in his second at bat on a high fastball; this was how the Sox got him out in the first half of the season. I was surprised/disappointed that catchers didn't target the same area his last two trips. Instead, Stanton got lower pitches he could extend on... maybe Braiser and Whitlock just missed their spots.

 

In the game thread, I brought up how nice it was for a Sox pitcher to finally go hard up and in on Stanton. I felt he needed that, all year.

 

When you do that the down and aways usually work better.

[Bellhorn04]

WTFCora!

 

You have it backwards.

 

It's FTWCora!

[Slasher9]

You have it backwards.

 

It's FTWCora!

 

today he has earned it. FTWCora! it is.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not beating a dead horse. You basically said, it's "not just me" who wants him fired, this winter, then just said "I did not say fire Cora, this winter."

 

He also said "hopefully he is gone after this year."

 

So yeah, he has said he wants him fired.

[Old Red]

I'm not beating a dead horse. You basically said, it's "not just me" who wants him fired, this winter, then just said "I did not say fire Cora, this winter."

 

You said two seeming opposite things, so I asked. If I misrepresented your opinion(s), I'm sorry.

 

I also asked you a few times, if you still wanted him gone after this season, and you never relied, so it's not like I keep asking you something you've already answered.

 

I'm fine with you having a different opinion, but I just wanted to see if your opinion had changed. I'm still not sure, after today's statement.

 

Read my comment again about firing Cora. I said more than one have said to fire him it’s not just me. It said Nothing about winter time. You keep saying winter. If I was going to fire Cora do you think last nights game would change my mind. It wouldn’t, and neither would it if the Sox won the whole thing. Having said all that he’s here now, and I don’t see him going anywhere, and I’m fine with that, but it doesn’t change my opinion on the cheating thing.

[Maxbialystock]

How many times are we going to beat this Cora thing to death? I’ve already said I wouldn’t have hired him back in the first place, and I said why. I also said I liked Cora, and he’s good in the clubhouse, and the players like him, but you said about firing him this winter, and if I was firing him i wouldn’t wait to this winter, and like this previous post said there were lots of negative Cora comments, and more than one said to fire him. Nice guy, but I just don’t think that good of game manager.

 

You wander around, but I think your final statement, "Nice guy, but I just don't think that good of a game manager," is definitive. You would fire him in a heartbeat because you can't tolerate a cheater (stealing signals) and think Cora is, well, too dumb to make the right calls during a game.

 

I don't like cheaters either, but also think the Commissioner has the final say on the penalty. As for smarts, like most others, I think Cora's pre-game and in-game decisions are the primary reason the Sox exceeded expectations this year. You on the other hand were talksox's leading advocate to start Sale instead of Houck last Saturday.

 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but please don't now try to shuffle away from it. Own it--if you dare.

[moonslav59]

Read my comment again about firing Cora. I said more than one have said to fire him it’s not just me. It said Nothing about winter time. You keep saying winter. If I was going to fire Cora do you think last nights game would change my mind. It wouldn’t, and neither would it if the Sox won the whole thing. Having said all that he’s here now, and I don’t see him going anywhere, and I’m fine with that, but it doesn’t change my opinion on the cheating thing.

 

No. You said you did not want to fire him right now, so that means the offseason- commonly referred to as "winter," but I guess it could be fall. Wow, you got me!

 

BTW, I wasn't referring to changing your mind after last night's game: Mr. technical. I asked you several days ago, just to see if you really meant what you said.

 

You avoided answering, nit-picked about semantics, and then today, denied you wanted him fired.

 

Own up, dude.

 

I'm fine with your opinion, but just be consistent and own up to it.

 

[moonslav59]

He also said "hopefully he is gone after this year."

 

So yeah, he has said he wants him fired.

 

I'm about to give up on this guy.

 

He's all over the map.

[Old Red]

You wander around, but I think your final statement, "Nice guy, but I just don't think that good of a game manager," is definitive. You would fire him in a heartbeat because you can't tolerate a cheater (stealing signals) and think Cora is, well, too dumb to make the right calls during a game.

 

I don't like cheaters either, but also think the Commissioner has the final say on the penalty. As for smarts, like most others, I think Cora's pre-game and in-game decisions are the primary reason the Sox exceeded expectations this year. You on the other hand were talksox's leading advocate to start Sale instead of Houck last Saturday.

 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but please don't now try to shuffle away from it. Own it--if you dare.

 

There are all kinds of managers, and coaches in all sports that aren’t good game day managers, or coaches but still win, because the have the players to do it. You don’t have to be a good game day manager, or coach to get players to go out, and play for you. Somebody else on here said I hated Cora, and now you say I think Cora is dumb. Exaggeration, and untrue at its finest. Yes I did say start Sale last Sat, and we will never know what would have happened, but we do know what happened Sun that Sale sucked, so I’m not backing away from anything. Everyone keeps talking like this was just a normal everyday stealing of signs, but it wasn’t. Hooking wires to players chest took it to a whole another level. Like you said I have my opinion, and you have yours, but like saying I hate Cora your saying I think Cora is dumb is vastly over exaggerated, and wrong.

[Maxbialystock]

No the easy thing to do was to take him out, which he did, and if he had stones he would have left him in. Stanton was hitting rockets off everyone, and that included Bra, who just had a day off, but had thrown tons of pitches the last week, and Whitlock too. Before Cora took EO out Judge hit a little dribbler to SS, and had only thrown 70 pitches. Even at that point I would rather have had EO pitch to Stanton than Bra, who almost gave up a 2 run homer, or Whitlock who did give up a homer to him. If Stanton drive had been a homer off Bra, or Judge hadn’t been thrown out at the plate it could have been a different game, and a different turnout. Most on here last night said to leave EO, and I agreed 100%.

 

Easy and hard aren't the right words. Smart and not smart are better.

 

Here's the smart side. Third time through the lineup is tough on any starter and something Eovaldi mentioned after the game. And guess what? Eovaldi's third time through the Yankees lineup last night started with Rizzo, who hit a dinger after earlier grounding out and striking out against Eovaldi. Also on Cora's mind might have been the fact that last time against the Yankees they scored 7 runs in 2.2 innings vs. Eovaldi. Also, next up was Stanton, who nailed the 2d or 3d pitch off Eovaldi his first time up--so hard that the Yankees announcer mistakenly said it was a dinger (but it turned out to be a single when Stanton typically lollygagged his way to first base). As for Brasier, Cora might have been aware that he hadn't given up a run in his previous 7 appearances, including two outings and 3.2 innings vs. the Yankees.

 

Not so smart is attacking Cora when the Sox won the game 6-2 and the only Yankee runs were off solo dingers given up by the two best Sox pitchers in the game, Eovaldi and Whitlock.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Maxbialystock

[Old Red]

I'm about to give up on this guy.

 

He's all over the map.

 

You make it sound like not wanting Cora to be the manager of the Boston Red Sox would be the crime of the century. I got news for you it is not.once again over analyzing at it’s finest.

[Maxbialystock]

There are all kinds of managers, and coaches in all sports that aren’t good game day managers, or coaches but still win, because the have the players to do it. You don’t have to be a good game day manager, or coach to get players to go out, and play for you. Somebody else on here said I hated Cora, and now you say I think Cora is dumb. Exaggeration, and untrue at its finest. Yes I did say start Sale last Sat, and we will never know what would have happened, but we do know what happened Sun that Sale sucked, so I’m not backing away from anything. Everyone keeps talking like this was just a normal everyday stealing of signs, but it wasn’t. Hooking wires to players chest took it to a whole another level. Like you said I have my opinion, and you have yours, but like saying I hate Cora your saying I think Cora is dumb is vastly over exaggerated, and wrong.

 

I did say dumb, but I based that on your words, "I don't think that good of a game manager." Only dumb managers can't make good in game decisions. Or have you never heard of Grady Hatton, who was fired for not pulling Pedro in the final game of the 2003 ALCS? Worth discussing too is Terry Francona, who was a pretty smart in-game manager and managed the Sox to two WS wins while ending the 86 year drought. He didn't get fired for bad in-game decisions, but for getting a little lax with 2011 Sox who faded badly in September and were later discovered to have been drinking beer during games. Later, he did a good job managing the Guardians.

 

Your comment on Sale is just silly. This year beyond question he needs a minimum of five days between starts. More importantly, however--and you absolutely refuse to address this simple fact--there was no need to start him on Saturday when there was another game to play on Sunday.

 

Also, and I have to say this, why do you keep criticizing Cora for his in game and pre game decisions for games the Sox actually won?

 

I have not said you hate Cora, but your comments about the sign-stealing suggest you do. I did say you think he is dumb, but that's because you seem to find it impossible to say that he made a good pre game or in game decision.

[Old Red]

Easy and hard aren't the right words. Smart and not smart are better.

 

Here's the smart side. Third time through the lineup is tough on any starter and something Eovaldi mentioned after the game. And guess what? Eovaldi's third time through the Yankees lineup last night started with Rizzo, who hit a dinger after earlier grounding out and striking out against Eovaldi. Also on Cora's mind might have been the fact that last time against the Yankees they scored 7 runs in 2.2 innings vs. Eovaldi. Also, next up was Stanton, who nailed the 2d or 3d pitch off Eovaldi his first time up--so hard that the Yankees announcer mistakenly said it was a dinger (but it turned out to be a single when Stanton typically lollygagged his way to first base). As for Brasier, Cora might have been aware that he hadn't given up a run in his previous 7 appearances, including two outings and 3.2 innings vs. the Yankees.

 

Not so smart is attacking Cora when the Sox won the game 6-2 and the only Yankee runs were off solo dingers given up by the two best Sox pitchers in the game, Eovaldi and Whitlock.

 

You make it sound I was the only one saying to leave EO in last night, and I wasn’t. You guys are good going back, and looking at things, so go back, and look at how many said to leave him in. I guess guys have to pitch a perfect game to be allowed to stay in, and that is why Rizzo hit the home run, because it was his 3rd AB. Must have been why Judge hit that little dribbler to Bogey on his 3rd AB. Was was the excuse for Bra giving up that shot of the wall to Stanton on his first time facing him, or Whitlock giving up the homer on his fist time facing him. Pitchers are going to give up hits, and homers no matter how many times they batter. The last time EO faced the Yankees had nothing to do with last nights game, so like I said about everyone commenting last night said to leave EO in, so I guess they must all be wrong too.

[Bellhorn04]

I get that, but... He’s still a bum. And I have seen too much of his bumness over the years.

 

Personally I would say his career numbers are "mediocre".

 

You must have seen him pitch in some Mets games, did you?

Edited October 6, 2021 by Bellhorn04

[Old Red]

I did say dumb, but I based that on your words, "I don't think that good of a game manager." Only dumb managers can't make good in game decisions. Or have you never heard of Grady Hatton, who was fired for not pulling Pedro in the final game of the 2003 ALCS? Worth discussing too is Terry Francona, who was a pretty smart in-game manager and managed the Sox to two WS wins while ending the 86 year drought. He didn't get fired for bad in-game decisions, but for getting a little lax with 2011 Sox who faded badly in September and were later discovered to have been drinking beer during games. Later, he did a good job managing the Guardians.

 

Your comment on Sale is just silly. This year beyond question he needs a minimum of five days between starts. More importantly, however--and you absolutely refuse to address this simple fact--there was no need to start him on Saturday when there was another game to play on Sunday.

 

Also, and I have to say this, why do you keep criticizing Cora for his in game and pre game decisions for games the Sox actually won?

 

I have not said you hate Cora, but your comments about the sign-stealing suggest you do. I did say you think he is dumb, but that's because you seem to find it impossible to say that he made a good pre game or in game decision.

 

You said dumb based on my words, so I guess by your words Cora is a total Genius, which he is not.wWho is Grady Hatton?? Also I do not criticize Sale for his in game, or pre game anything. Your reasoning for the dumb comments make no sense at all, because I don’t think he’s a good manager. No Sale did not have to Start Saturday, but I thought he was a better option that Houck who had been banished to the pen, and giving him another days rest turned out real well.

[a700hitter]

Personally I would say his career numbers are "mediocre".

 

You must have seen him pitch in some Mets games, did you?

i have seen him in some brutal stretches with the Mets

[moonslav59]

You make it sound like not wanting Cora to be the manager of the Boston Red Sox would be the crime of the century. I got news for you it is not.once again over analyzing at it’s finest.

 

Now, who is putting words in others’ mouths?

 

Who is going on and on?

 

I said I was wrong about implying and saying you hate Cora, but you keep bringing it up like I’m still saying or thinking you said that. You didn’t. I’m sorry for saying you did.

 

I disagree with your opinion but am far from thinking it’s a crime let alone of the century.

 

Why not actually respond to what I said and asked?

 

You gave two opposite opinions on bringing Cora back and then denied it.

[Old Red]

Now, who is putting words in others’ mouths?

 

Who is going on and on?

 

I said I was wrong about implying and saying you hate Cora, but you keep bringing it up like I’m still saying or thinking you said that. You didn’t. I’m sorry for saying you did.

 

I disagree with your opinion but am far from thinking it’s a crime let alone of the century.

 

Why not actually respond to what I said and asked?

 

You gave two opposite opinions on bringing Cora back and then denied it.

 

Why do you care so much if I would fire Cora, or not. I have already answered that. Now while I have said I wouldn’t have hired him back in the first place I said he’s here now, and not going anywhere, and I’m fine with that. I’m not bring up the hate comment to you, but because as you know according to another I think Cora is dumb it gets brought up in the response, so nothing directed towards you.

[Old Red]

Easy and hard aren't the right words. Smart and not smart are better.

 

Here's the smart side. Third time through the lineup is tough on any starter and something Eovaldi mentioned after the game. And guess what? Eovaldi's third time through the Yankees lineup last night started with Rizzo, who hit a dinger after earlier grounding out and striking out against Eovaldi. Also on Cora's mind might have been the fact that last time against the Yankees they scored 7 runs in 2.2 innings vs. Eovaldi. Also, next up was Stanton, who nailed the 2d or 3d pitch off Eovaldi his first time up--so hard that the Yankees announcer mistakenly said it was a dinger (but it turned out to be a single when Stanton typically lollygagged his way to first base). As for Brasier, Cora might have been aware that he hadn't given up a run in his previous 7 appearances, including two outings and 3.2 innings vs. the Yankees.

 

Not so smart is attacking Cora when the Sox won the game 6-2 and the only Yankee runs were off solo dingers given up by the two best Sox pitchers in the game, Eovaldi and Whitlock.

 

If Stanton’s shot off Bra had been a few feet higher, and tied up the game would you have thought it was a good move then to take Nate out?

[moonslav59]

Why do you care so much if I would fire Cora, or not. I have already answered that. Now while I have said I wouldn’t have hired him back in the first place I said he’s here now, and not going anywhere, and I’m fine with that. I’m not bring up the hate comment to you, but because as you know according to another I think Cora is dumb it gets brought up in the response, so nothing directed towards you.

 

You answered two ways. I wanted to know which one you want. I still am not sure, but you are right: why should I care?