A Realistic View at 2022: Part I

[notin]

But is it too much to ask that the 26-28 man roster just carry one late-inning defensive replacement for the outfield, like most contenders do?

 

Like who?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Like who?

 

Without looking at the free agent list for this winter, there will probably be at least some guys available that signed one-year contracts last winter. However, I can't imagine JBJ, due another $11 mil for '22, would be considered by Bloom unless the Brewers attached a legit prospect to a salary dump. But what if?

 

Btw, I don't think Bradley is all washed up as a MLB player, even with his horrid '21 numbers. The first year adjusting to a new league, seeing a majority of pitchers for the first time, is tough for anyone. JBJ may not bat .283 again like he did last summer, but if he lands back in the AL, maybe he won't hit .165, either. He's always in shape, and I expect him to be a high quality fly chaser for another half decade (his dWAR this season is actually his highest in five years).

[mvp 78]

But is it too much to ask that the 26-28 man roster just carry one late-inning defensive replacement for the outfield, like most contenders do?

 

Was supposed to be Marwin.

[mvp 78]

Like who?

 

Blue Jays - Jarrod Dyson

[notin]

Without looking at the free agent list for this winter, there will probably be at least some guys available that signed one-year contracts last winter. However, I can't imagine JBJ, due another $11 mil for '22, would be considered by Bloom unless the Brewers attached a legit prospect to a salary dump. But what if?

 

Btw, I don't think Bradley is all washed up as a MLB player, even with his horrid '21 numbers. The first year adjusting to a new league, seeing a majority of pitchers for the first time, is tough for anyone. JBJ may not bat .283 again like he did last summer, but if he lands back in the AL, maybe he won't hit .165, either. He's always in shape, and I expect him to be a high quality fly chaser for another half decade (his dWAR this season is actually his highest in five years).

 

Actually I was wondering who all these defensive outfielders that contenders are using as late inning replacements are...

[notin]

Blue Jays - Jarrod Dyson

 

So.. one? And he was acquired off waivers less than 3 weeks ago...

[mvp 78]

So.. one? And he was acquired off waivers less than 3 weeks ago...

 

It was the only team I looked at. Have you never heard of a team having a defensive replacement for a stretch run or adding a guy that can steal bases?

 

The Sox have done it a bunch.

 

Off the top of my head:

 

Dave Roberts

Bobby Kielty

Mark Kotsay

Quintin Berry

 

2018 team didn't need OF replacements (Mookie, JBJ, Beni) so they went ahead an loaded up on IF guys like Pearce, Brandon Phillips and Ian Kinsler.

[mvp 78]

"Oh, so you just pulled Quintin Berry off the top of your head?!?"

 

Unfortunately for Mr Berry, he's at the top of my "remember a guy" pile. I don't know why he stands out as he wasn't a huge contributor.

[moonslav59]

It was the only team I looked at. Have you never heard of a team having a defensive replacement for a stretch run or adding a guy that can steal bases?

 

The Sox have done it a bunch.

 

Off the top of my head:

 

Dave Roberts

Bobby Kielty

Mark Kotsay

Quintin Berry

 

2018 team didn't need OF replacements (Mookie, JBJ, Beni) so they went ahead an loaded up on IF guys like Pearce, Brandon Phillips and Ian Kinsler.

 

We even added a defensive 1Bman a few times. Mientkiewicz was the most well know.

[mvp 78]

We even added a defensive 1Bman a few times. Mientkiewicz was the most well know.

 

Supplementing the bench is pretty typical for contending teams. Some posters just like to gaslight though.

[notin]

It was the only team I looked at. Have you never heard of a team having a defensive replacement for a stretch run or adding a guy that can steal bases?

 

The Sox have done it a bunch.

 

Off the top of my head:

 

Dave Roberts

Bobby Kielty

Mark Kotsay

Quintin Berry

 

2018 team didn't need OF replacements (Mookie, JBJ, Beni) so they went ahead an loaded up on IF guys like Pearce, Brandon Phillips and Ian Kinsler.

 

 

 

Once again, you're going to get a hernia if you keep moving those goal posts. 5Gold wanted the Sox to add a late inning defensive replacement OF, "like most contenders". I asked which ones have one. He made a very specific request, and IMO it was nowhere near as rife as he indicated.

 

The whole "stolen base specialist"/pinch runner is a different matter. (And Kielty was neither a defensive specialist not a stolen base specialist.)

 

 

Kotsay is the only player you listed who fits what 5Gold was asking about...

[notin]

We even added a defensive 1Bman a few times. Mientkiewicz was the most well know.

 

True. But also 100% irrelevant to the initial question...

[notin]

Supplementing the bench is pretty typical for contending teams. Some posters just like to gaslight though.

 

Exactly. And some don't recognize who is doing it...

[mvp 78]

Once again, you're going to get a hernia if you keep moving those goal posts. 5Gold wanted the Sox to add a late inning defensive replacement OF, "like most contenders". I asked which ones have one. He made a very specific request, and IMO it was nowhere near as rife as he indicated.

 

The whole "stolen base specialist"/pinch runner is a different matter. (And Kielty was neither a defensive specialist not a stolen base specialist.)

 

 

Kotsay is the only player you listed who fits what 5Gold was asking about...

 

Disagree.

 

Berry: https://cdn.fangraphs.com/players/quintin-berry/9414/game-log?position=OF&gds=&gde=&type=0&season=2013

 

Roberts: https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=roberda07&t=b&year=2004

 

Both were used quite often as defensive replacements. Kotsay might actually be the least applicable since he mainly became a starter once he came to BOS.

[notin]

Disagree.

 

Berry: https://cdn.fangraphs.com/players/quintin-berry/9414/game-log?position=OF&gds=&gde=&type=0&season=2013

 

Roberts: https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=roberda07&t=b&year=2004

 

Both were used quite often as defensive replacements. Kotsay might actually be the least applicable since he mainly became a starter once he came to BOS.

 

 

Roberts did play a lot defensively.

 

Berry played 9 games in the field, mostly because he came in as a pinch runner. He started one of those games late in the year after everything was wrapped up. But in two of his other games, the Sox won by a combined score of 35-9. That’s not so much being a late inning defensive replacement as giving starters a rest in a blowout win.

 

Anyway, the initial postulate was “most contenders” have a late inning defensive replacement outfielder. Is that really true? Or does one contending team using one 17 years ago fulfill the requirement of “most”?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The problem with parsing words in the debate about late-inning defensive posts is not that most contenders go out and acquire a specialist at the deadline, but that most good teams already have good fielders in their lineups or on the bench that they can use accordingly. This Boston roster is full of bad D -- and a lot of us knew it before the season even started, when we campaigned for better gloves.

[mvp 78]

Roberts did play a lot defensively.

 

Berry played 9 games in the field, mostly because he came in as a pinch runner. He started one of those games late in the year after everything was wrapped up. But in two of his other games, the Sox won by a combined score of 35-9. That’s not so much being a late inning defensive replacement as giving starters a rest in a blowout win.

 

Anyway, the initial postulate was “most contenders” have a late inning defensive replacement outfielder. Is that really true? Or does one contending team using one 17 years ago fulfill the requirement of “most”?

 

If we are weighing with scales, it's much closer to most contenders than "one 17 years ago."

[moonslav59]

The problem with parsing words in the debate about late-inning defensive posts is not that most contenders go out and acquire a specialist at the deadline, but that most good teams already have good fielders in their lineups or on the bench that they can use accordingly. This Boston roster is full of bad D -- and a lot of us knew it before the season even started, when we campaigned for better gloves.

 

I think Bloom & Cora expected...

 

Mawrin to hit well enough to be a net plus due to his plus defense.

 

Dalbec to learn 1B more quickly and at a higher level by now.

 

Arroyo to stay healthy (maybe not based on history)

 

Devers to improve as he nears prime.

 

Verdugo to be a plus over Beni in LF.

 

Kike to be close to what JBJ gave us in 2019-2020 and more importantly what was expected of JBJ's D in 2021.

 

We were not touching SS or C.

 

The Renfroe choice was clearly O over D, but I doubt they expected 11 errors.

[notin]

If we are weighing with scales, it's much closer to most contenders than "one 17 years ago."

 

I just don't see most contenders using the late inning defensive replacement outfielder.

 

THe only guy currently using one that I can think of is Tony LaRussa, who brings in Billy Hamilton for Eloy Jimenez late in games to protect a lead. But that's one team, and it's a team managed by the guy who pretty much started the "late inning defensive replacement" strategy some 45 years ago...

[notin]

The problem with parsing words in the debate about late-inning defensive posts is not that most contenders go out and acquire a specialist at the deadline, but that most good teams already have good fielders in their lineups or on the bench that they can use accordingly. This Boston roster is full of bad D -- and a lot of us knew it before the season even started, when we campaigned for better gloves.

 

The problem is that the two biggest culprits are probably Bogaerts and Devers. And they're also the two most important players in that lineup...

[Nick]

We all know what the issues are for current Sox team.

 

The team is pretty well set with exception of COVID guys.

 

Our bullpen appears to have stabilized.

 

Get ready for the playoff chase as the season winds down.

 

What we do this offseason will let us know what to expect from Bloom.

[moonslav59]

The problem is that the two biggest culprits are probably Bogaerts and Devers. And they're also the two most important players in that lineup...

 

Both can be moved to another position without losing their bats.

 

Bogey may opt out after 2022, so we may have a hole there, soon enough.

 

Vaz is not an important offensive player.

 

Renfroe could play LF.

 

A commitment could be made to play Kike in CF, almost exclusively by adding a good infield utility player.

[moonslav59]

We all know what the issues are for current Sox team.

 

The team is pretty well set with exception of COVID guys.

 

Our bullpen appears to have stabilized.

 

Get ready for the playoff chase as the season winds down.

 

What we do this offseason will let us know what to expect from Bloom.

 

Yes, very little can be done, right now without creating other weaknesses somewhere else.

 

I doubt we make major changes, this winter, either, but we can take a few steps, this year, and when Bogey opts out (or before) try and replace him with a great glove without losing much offense, at all. Yes, that will cost money, but so will keeping Bogey.

 

With Dalbec and casas at 1B, I doubt Devers changes position. The good thing is, he's still young enough to improve his D. He's younger than Dalbec and Duran.

[notin]

Yes, very little can be done, right now without creating other weaknesses somewhere else.

 

I doubt we make major changes, this winter, either, but we can take a few steps, this year, and when Bogey opts out (or before) try and replace him with a great glove without losing much offense, at all. Yes, that will cost money, but so will keeping Bogey.

 

With Dalbec and casas at 1B, I doubt Devers changes position. The good thing is, he's still young enough to improve his D. He's younger than Dalbec and Duran.

 

I think this offseason will not be much in the way of position players.

 

I think Bogaerts will stick around and is a very likely opt out candidate. But his 2022 season will be spent in boston as a shortstop. Bloom could deal him, but then he is the the GM who traded Betts, Benintendi and Bogaerts for Verdugo, Franchy Cordero and what? It would need to be a blockbuster.

 

Devers is not moving.

 

Hopefully the Sox flip Renfroe to LF and Verdugo to RF. Maybe they will look into acquiring a CF. Maybe they go with Duran.

 

I am not hopeful that Schwarber will be back, but I do want it to happen...

[moonslav59]

I think this offseason will not be much in the way of position players.

 

I think Bogaerts will stick around and is a very likely opt out candidate. But his 2022 season will be spent in boston as a shortstop. Bloom could deal him, but then he is the the GM who traded Betts, Benintendi and Bogaerts for Verdugo, Franchy Cordero and what? It would need to be a blockbuster.

 

Devers is not moving.

 

Hopefully the Sox flip Renfroe to LF and Verdugo to RF. Maybe they will look into acquiring a CF. Maybe they go with Duran.

 

I am not hopeful that Schwarber will be back, but I do want it to happen...

 

No love for Kike in CF?

 

(Maybe they extend him.)

 

I do think Bloom will look into trading Bogey, but it can't be for prospects, unless he signs Correa or Story.

 

Devers is not moving. He has shown he can play good D, so we'll have to work on why he isn't more consistent and focused.

 

Dalbec and Casas will be our 1Bmen for the next few years.

 

I have to wonder why Verdugo and Renfroe aren't flipped, now. They both have played the other corner enough to not be a major shock.

 

We may trade one of them, especially if we keep Schwarber, but I won't be surprised to see the same OF again with Kike playing more CF, than 2021. As of today, Kike has played:

 

47% of CF innings

27% 2B

3% SS

 

I'm hoping, in 2022, it's more like

80% CF

15% 2B

 

Vaz may be the top candidate for trade and replacement of all our players, but I know many here like his D.

 

[notin]

No love for Kike in CF?

 

(Maybe they extend him.)

 

I do think Bloom will look into trading Bogey, but it can't be for prospects, unless he signs Correa or Story.

 

Devers is not moving. He has shown he can play good D, so we'll have to work on why he isn't more consistent and focused.

 

Dalbec and Casas will be our 1Bmen for the next few years.

 

I have to wonder why Verdugo and Renfroe aren't flipped, now. They both have played the other corner enough to not be a major shock.

 

We may trade one of them, especially if we keep Schwarber, but I won't be surprised to see the same OF again with Kike playing more CF, than 2021. As of today, Kike has played:

 

47% of CF innings

27% 2B

3% SS

 

I'm hoping, in 2022, it's more like

80% CF

15% 2B

 

Vaz may be the top candidate for trade and replacement of all our players, but I know many here like his D.

 

 

They make keep Kike at 2b. While he is their best defensive CF, he’s probably also their best defensive 2b. Downs isn’t knocking on the door for 2022. But Duran is already up.

 

I do like a Kike at 2b/Verdugo in CF/Renfroe in RF/Schwarber in LF lineup offensively, but it will have glaring issues preventing runs…

[moonslav59]

They make keep Kike at 2b. While he is their best defensive CF, he’s probably also their best defensive 2b. Downs isn’t knocking on the door for 2022. But Duran is already up.

 

I do like a Kike at 2b/Verdugo in CF/Renfroe in RF/Schwarber in LF lineup offensively, but it will have glaring issues preventing runs…

 

No love for Christian IL Arroyo?

Edited September 15, 2021 by moonslav59

[notin]

No lobe for Christian IL Arroyo?

 

He can resume his regular role on the IL…

[moonslav59]

Instead of paying Schwarber and Bogey, we could sign a plus O- plus D SS like Baez, Story or Correa, trade Bogey or move him to 2B and then spend anything left on pitching and more pitching.

[Nick]

He can resume his regular role on the IL…

 

Well done, notin.