A Realistic View at 2022: Part I

[moonslav59]

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/costacos-baseball-poster-mike-417762283

 

He did have one of the greatest posters though.

 

Not a repeatable skill.

[mvp 78]

Not a repeatable skill.

 

He is an all time record holder though:

 

On September 2, 1996, Mike Greenwell of Boston had nine runs batted in during a ten inning game. This is the record for most runs batted in where one player accounted for ALL of a team's RBIs.

[Bellhorn04]

He is an all time record holder though:

 

On September 2, 1996, Mike Greenwell of Boston had nine runs batted in during a ten inning game. This is the record for most runs batted in where one player accounted for ALL of a team's RBIs.

 

Without looking, was it against Seattle?

[mvp 78]

Without looking, was it against Seattle?

 

King Domed.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Greenie didn't have puffed up muscles in the Michelin Man era, but superior bat speed generated MLB power. I liked him because he got visibly angry when he failed; it's easy to appreciate pros who at least look like they care as much as fans. Line drive hitter, lifetime Red Sox player.

 

Twelve-year career: a negative dWAR but .318/.837, 19 HRs, 99 RBI. Wait, that's Hall of Famer Kirby Puckett...

 

Here's Mike Greenwell: negative dWAR and .303/.831, 17 HRs, 93 RBI. His lefty swing reminded me more of Mattingly: 14 years, .307/.830, 20 HRs, 100 RBI.

[Maxbialystock]

There is value to Leon. There just isn't 1.50 saved ERA value.

 

He was a positive fWAR guy from 16-18. He had value then. Now, he has much less value because his bat is crap and his defense has taken a step back.

 

To me it makes no sense at all to say that catchers don't make a difference in how well pitchers pitch.

 

I do agree CERA is an imperfect stat and that in some games pitchers are irretrievably horrible and in other games so good anyone could catch them.

 

But in between those extremes, in maybe 2/3 of games, the pitcher on the mound is doing OK but doesn't have his best stuff or best control--or he's the kind of pitcher who doesn't normally have great stuff or command. And that's where a good pitcher's catcher can really help in what pitches he calls for, how he frames pitches, etc.

 

Yesterday--how's this for a ridiculously small data point?--we saw Houck do pretty well with Vazquez behind the plate, but Whitlock and Taylor just give the game away in relief, mostly because of walks. Could Vazquez have done something more than he did to straighten those guys out? Probably not, but the thought lingers.

 

In the second game Plawecki caught Eovaldi, who went 5, giving up 2 runs (both solo dingers), and then Perez and Sawamura who, unlike Whitlock and Taylor, pitched a pretty clean 6th--1 hit, no walks, no runs--compared to Whitlock/Taylor's disastrous 5th when they got 1 out while giving up 3 runs, 3 walks, and 3 hits.

[moonslav59]

Greenie didn't have puffed up muscles in the Michelin Man era, but superior bat speed generated MLB power. I liked him because he got visibly angry when he failed; it's easy to appreciate pros who at least look like they care as much as fans. Line drive hitter, lifetime Red Sox player.

 

Twelve-year career: a negative dWAR but .318/.837, 19 HRs, 99 RBI. Wait, that's Hall of Famer Kirby Puckett...

 

Here's Mike Greenwell: negative dWAR and .303/.831, 17 HRs, 93 RBI. His lefty swing reminded me more of Mattingly: 14 years, .307/.830, 20 HRs, 100 RBI.

 

That's weird, because the guys who bust up the dugout after a K kinda bugged me.

 

Like Trot Nixon.

 

(Cue: Nixon love stories.)

[mvp 78]

Greenie didn't have puffed up muscles in the Michelin Man era, but superior bat speed generated MLB power. I liked him because he got visibly angry when he failed; it's easy to appreciate pros who at least look like they care as much as fans. Line drive hitter, lifetime Red Sox player.

 

Twelve-year career: a negative dWAR but .318/.837, 19 HRs, 99 RBI. Wait, that's Hall of Famer Kirby Puckett...

 

Here's Mike Greenwell: negative dWAR and .303/.831, 17 HRs, 93 RBI. His lefty swing reminded me more of Mattingly: 14 years, .307/.830, 20 HRs, 100 RBI.

 

Mattingly 124 WRC+

Puckett 122 WRC+

Greenwell 120 WRC+

 

Puckett is overrated should not be a HOFer. JAWS has him similar to Johnny Damon.

[mvp 78]

That's weird, because the guys who bust up the dugout after a K kinda bugged me.

 

Like Trot Nixon.

 

(Cue: Nixon love stories.)

 

Papi.

[mvp 78]

Trot:

 

2001 - 2004 884 OPS, 130 WRC+

 

I'd say that's pretty good.

[mvp 78]

Drew:

 

2007 - 2010 853 OPS, 123 WRC+

[mvp 78]

Greenwell:

 

1987 - 1990 872 OPS, 135 WRC+

[harmony]

He is an all time record holder though:

 

On September 2, 1996, Mike Greenwell of Boston had nine runs batted in during a ten inning game. This is the record for most runs batted in where one player accounted for ALL of a team's RBIs.

Mike Greenwell was batting eighth in the Red Sox lineup that evening:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SEA/SEA199609020.shtml

 

The winning pitcher for the Red Sox was none other than Heathcliff Slocumb. Seattle fans would not be surprised that Bobby Ayala and Norm Charlton each had a blown save.

Edited August 18, 2021 by harmony

[mvp 78]

Mike Greenwell was batting eighth in the Red Sox lineup that evening:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SEA/SEA199609020.shtml

 

The winning pitcher for the Red Sox was none other than Heathcliff Slocumb. Seattle fans would not be surprised that Bobby Ayala and Norm Charlton each had a blown save.

 

That Sox lineup!

 

Bragg

Frye

Valentin

Mo

Jefferson

O'Leary

Naehring

Greenwell

 

Only mistake was starting Haselman over Stanley.

 

Any Rudy Pemberton game is a win in my book.

[moonslav59]

Papi.

 

Papi never bugged me, even when he smashed the phone off the wall.

 

I guess it does all just come down to whether I like the guy or not.

 

You caught me.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Speaking of SOX hitters and RH ones at that, who was the better hitter? Jim Rice or Manny?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Papi never bugged me, even when he smashed the phone off the wall.

 

I guess it does all just come down to whether I like the guy or not.

 

You caught me.

 

I don't remember Greenwell tantrums, but swearing and teeth-gnashing when he didn't deliver at the plate or on the field. I can relate to those reactions more than nonchalance or worse, grinning derisively when an ump makes a bad call.

[moonslav59]

Speaking of SOX hitters and RH ones at that, who was the better hitter? Jim Rice or Manny?

 

Manny was the best RH’d hitter I have ever seen.

 

Rice was awesome, too.

[moonslav59]

I don't remember Greenwell tantrums, but swearing and teeth-gnashing when he didn't deliver at the plate or on the field. I can relate to those reactions more than nonchalance or worse, grinning derisively when an ump makes a bad call.

 

I loved Manny’s nonchalance approach at the plate, although he really worked super hard on hitting behind the scenes.

 

The nonchalance on defense never endeared me.

[Kimmi]

Bad juju thread.

 

But carry on.

[mvp 78]

Bad juju thread.

 

But carry on.

 

^^^

 

I was going to make the offseason thread as a joke, but realized that even if I'm down on the Sox I can't put it out there in the universe.

[moonslav59]

Bad juju thread.

 

But carry on.

 

Too much talk of 2022 in the 2021 thread.

 

It's not like we started losing after the thread was created. That began beforehand.

[mvp 78]

Too much talk of 2022 in the 2021 thread.

 

It's not like we started losing after the thread was created. That began beforehand.

 

It was and is bad juju.

[moonslav59]

It was and is bad juju.

 

Juju is not a repeatable skill, nor is mojo.

[mvp 78]

Juju is not a repeatable skill, nor is mojo.

 

Interesting...

 

I’m on the road, but this is urgency time.

 

I’ve seemed to morph into a one win and done thread starter.

 

The magic returns, tonight.

 

Keep the mojo risin'!

[moonslav59]

Interesting...

 

I have single-handedly proven mojo is no repeatable.

Edited August 19, 2021 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

I have single-handedly proven mojo is no repeatable.

 

Things that are repeatable do not necessarily repeat ad infinitum.

 

I'm hating the term 'repeatable skill' more all the time.

[User Name]

Things that are repeatable do not necessarily repeat ad infinitum.

 

I'm hating the term 'repeatable skill' more all the time.

 

It's still right in the context you hate it in, unfortunately. Things that are correct don't stop being correct because we don't like them.

 

Example, I hate the idea that Gerrit Cole is still elite even when not allowed to cheat with sticky stuff, but it's true.

[jad]

That's weird, because the guys who bust up the dugout after a K kinda bugged me.

 

Like Trot Nixon.

 

(Cue: Nixon love stories.)

 

The worst offender was Youkilis. Until Manny offered to beat the crap out of him for it. (The only thing I regret about Manny's career was that he was denied the opportunity to do that.)

[Bellhorn04]

It's still right in the context you hate it in, unfortunately. Things that are correct don't stop being correct because we don't like them.

 

'Repeatable skill' is a term made up by some baseball stat nerds. I really don't have to respect it.