trade deadline

[Bellhorn04]

Okay, but would you be bitching, now, if Kimbrel was acquired and doing well?

 

If he was acquired and sucked like he has?

 

Nobody expected Bloom to get Kimbrel, I don't think. We were hoping for a Bloom-esque under the radar type.

[moonslav59]

Nobody expected Bloom to get Kimbrel, I don't think. We were hoping for a Bloom-esque under the radar type.

 

Agreed, and he failed miserably at his attempt.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that RP'ers are a crapshoot- even better ones than "under-the-radar" types and I don't think it's fair to blast Bloom so hardly for failing at a craps.

 

I have to admit, he's missed on finding gems in the rough more than I expected. It shows how much the system is more important than the GM, as MVP has stated.

 

I think I'm also trying to look at the big picture and let smaller moves go more than some seem to do.

 

We went into this winter in total shambles. One can argue we are there, again, right now, but this is what Bloom had to work with. He had about $33-34M to spend and had these high need areas:

 

S1 until Sale returned- say Richards at $10M (MISSED)

(S2 & 3 were Eovaldi and the questionable ERod)

S4 Pivetta (acquired last summer)

S5 $6M Perez (MISSED, but only after his first 11+ starts were very good)

(S6 Houck was not a bloom addition)

 

R1 Barnes (Questionable as a closer- worked first half)

R2 Ottavino (cost almost $9M. I think a plus but close)

R3 Whitlock- a god send of a plus- major gem find.

R4 Taylor/R5 DHern- the same

R6 $1.9M Andreise a complete failure

R7 Valdez- the same

R8- Rios, Workman-Robles-Davis, Brice- MISSED

 

(C- Vaz the same) Added Plawecki, last year

1B- Replaced Chavis with Dalbec last summer- stuck with him

2B- Arroyo added, last year- Kike, last winter

(SS Bogey & 3B Devers- the same)

Utility: $3M Marwin a complete disaster. MISSED

LF- moved Verdugo from RF to LF

CF-$7M x 2 Kike- a big plus.

RF- $3.1M Renfroe- a big plus

(DH- JD-the same) Added Schwarber at the deadline: Plus

 

So, basically $33M to find 2 SP'ers, 3 RP'ers, a CF'er, a RF'er and a Utility Player, this winter, plus hope ERod & Eovaldi stayed healthy, Pivetta, Arroyo and Dalbec all held their own. One could argue their slots could have been considered "open," too.

 

To, me the fact that it is September and we are in the lead for a playoff slot with all that going on, last winter, Bloom not guessing right on a couple RP'ers at the deadline seems rather trivial, despite the fact that it looks like that was a major reason we imploded.

Edited September 1, 2021 by moonslav59

[mvp 78]

Nobody expected Bloom to get Kimbrel, I don't think. We were hoping for a Bloom-esque under the radar type.

 

Yes

[moonslav59]

Yes

 

You expected 2 under-the-radar RP'ers to both work out, when the success rate for better RP'ers is 50-50, at best, and it's all Bloom's fault he missed on both, badly.

 

I'm not doubting the significance of those two failures, even when weighed against the addition of Schwarber, but I guess I just think maybe expecting so much for so little is where the level of overall blame for the implosion is off a bit.

 

Here, trade Alex Scherff and bring us a ring.

 

[a700hitter]

I think what is disturbing is the sloppy play. Even players with limited skills learn to play the game the right way. This team has played stupid baseball, and lacked discipline on the field. It has shown itself to be poorly coached and not equal to the sum of its parts. If Henry expected this then he is not as smart as everyone thinks. And I for one doubt that is the case.

Henry and Co better do a rethink or Fenway Park tickets will be as easy to get as those for Camden Yards.

There is no excuse for the sloppy play and the coaching staff bears that responsibility.

[mvp 78]

You expected 2 under-the-radar RP'ers to both work out, when the success rate for better RP'ers is 50-50, at best, and it's all Bloom's fault he missed on both, badly.

 

I'm not doubting the significance of those two failures, even when weighed against the addition of Schwarber, but I guess I just think maybe expecting so much for so little is where the level of overall blame for the implosion is off a bit.

 

Here, trade Alex Scherff and bring us a ring.

 

 

Obviously they’d have to give up more than Scherff. Some of us were ok with that.

[moonslav59]

Obviously they’d have to give up more than Scherff. Some of us were ok with that.

 

I would have given up a few Alex Scherffs, but I still don't know any specific offers that were suggested.

 

I thought giving up Aldo was more than expected, and maybe trading him and Scherff plus other lesser pieces for a better RP'er or two would have worked better- maybe not.

 

I had the idea that we could trade some of our players that might be DFA'd for rule 5 players, but I'm sure other teams knew they just had to wait, and how much trade value did Potts, Rosario or even Arauz or a catcher (RHern or Wong) have?

 

Would you have traded Bleis, Howlett or Crawford? That might be who GMs insisted upon.

 

[moonslav59]

There is no excuse for the sloppy play and the coaching staff bears that responsibility.

 

How much should the players bear?

 

The GM for giving Cora a team with maybe 3 decent fielders?

[Elktonnick]

How much should the players bear?

 

The GM for giving Cora a team with maybe 3 decent fielders?

Your last sentence is a red herring. The team as it is constituted is playing STUPID baseball. The guys playing the dumbest are not the worst players. Vazquez, Bogaerts Verdugo Hernandez and Hunter Renfoe have all made more than their share of boneheaded plays since the ASB

[moonslav59]

Your last sentence is a red herring. The team as it is constituted is playing STUPID baseball. The guys playing the dumbest are not the worst players. Vazquez, Bogaerts Verdugo Hernandez and Hunter Renfoe have all made more than their share of boneheaded plays since the ASB

 

Bogey has the worst or near worst DRS of his era.

 

The others are okay. Renfroe is not good-not bad.

 

Don't get me started on Vaz.

[Elktonnick]

Bogey has the worst or near worst DRS of his era.

 

The others are okay. Renfroe is not good-not bad.

 

Don't get me started on Vaz.

 

Vaz was just voted the best defensive catcher according to OB who just announced it during tonight's game. You keep talking physical defensive metrics. What I am talking about is the mental aspects of the game. Base running hitting the cutoff man etc. They have when healthy sufficient talent to compete. Yes they could have better players but the point is they are not getting the best effort from the guys they got. There are playing dumb bad baseball at all aspects of the game, offense and defense. IMO their problem is more mental than physical. That starts with management and coaching. There is something wrong in the clubhouse

[moonslav59]

Vaz was just voted the best defensive catcher according to OB who just announced it during tonight's game. You keep talking physical defensive metrics. What I am talking about is the mental aspects of the game. Base running hitting the cutoff man etc. They have when healthy sufficient talent to compete. Yes they could have better players but the point is they are not getting the best effort from the guys they got. There are playing dumb bad baseball at all aspects of the game, offense and defense. IMO their problem is more mental than physical. That starts with management and coaching. There is something wrong in the clubhouse

 

I'm not denying poor coaching may be part of the problem.

 

As for Vaz, It's not just metrics and CERA. I watch every pitch of every game.

[a700hitter]

How much should the players bear?

 

The GM for giving Cora a team with maybe 3 decent fielders?

They should know how to run the bases and the fielding fundamentals of where to throw the ball and back up bases, get out of the way of runners, etc. Even at the MLB level, players make fundamental mistakes, but when it is rampant on a team, that goes on the coaching.

[moonslav59]

They should know how to run the bases and the fielding fundamentals of where to throw the ball and back up bases, get out of the way of runners, etc. Even at the MLB level, players make fundamental mistakes, but when it is rampant on a team, that goes on the coaching.

 

That makes total sense.

 

lol

[a700hitter]

That makes total sense.

 

lol

douche bag

[moonslav59]

You mean, it was meant to make sense?

[a700hitter]

You mean, it was meant to make sense?

Funny, for a douche bag, but still a douche bag.

[moonslav59]

It's not some kind of fluke. These guys weren't even good fielders before this year. They were and still are bozos in the field.

 

For someone who loves blaming Bloom, this is a perfect set-up, but instead it's Cora's fault for not turning clowns into fundamentally sound defenders overnight.

 

He had, what like a week with Munoz?.

 

Three weeks with Schwarber?

 

He was supposed to turn JD into a defender?

 

[a700hitter]

It's not some kind of fluke. These guys weren't even good fielders before this year. They were and still are bozos in the field.

 

For someone who loves blaming Bloom, this is a perfect set-up, but instead it's Cora's fault for not turning clowns into fundamentally sound defenders overnight.

 

He had, what like a week with Munoz?.

 

Three weeks with Schwarber?

 

He was supposed to turn JD into a defender?

 

And running into all the outs on the bases isn’t on the coaching staff either. Makes sense. LOL!

[moonslav59]

And running into all the outs on the bases isn’t on the coaching staff either. Makes sense. LOL!

 

Stawman master.

 

I never said coaches were blameless.

 

You said it goes on the coaching.

 

It's the players, coaching and the GM and the previous admin.

[a700hitter]

Stawman master.

 

I never said coaches were blameless.

 

You said it goes on the coaching.

 

It's the players, coaching and the GM and the previous admin.

so the coaches do get blame. And I never said that the players don’t get blame. That’s your mistake assuming otherwise.

[moonslav59]

so the coaches do get blame. And I never said that the players don’t get blame. That’s your mistake assuming otherwise.

 

You specifically said when it happens often, it's "on the coaching."

 

Yes, I know the difference between inference and assumption.

[a700hitter]

You specifically said when it happens often, it's "on the coaching."

 

Yes, I know the difference between inference and assumption.

The mistakes are on the players. Letting it continue without correction is on the coaches. Both bear responsibility. Is that too complicated for you?

[moonslav59]

The mistakes are on the players. Letting it continue without correction is on the coaches. Both bear responsibility. Is that too complicated for you?

 

No, I get your lame position very clearly. I didn't assume or mistake what you said and meant.

 

Yes, both bear responsibility. I'm glad you saw the light.

 

You honestly think Cora is doing or trying nothing or maybe just not doing enough? He's just "letting it happen?"

 

Like if he spent 24/7 with these guys on D, they'd be any better?

 

These guys suck on D. They always have. It might take years to turn them into just average.

 

Just blame Bloom. You are much better at that.

[a700hitter]

No, I get your lame position very clearly. I didn't assume or mistake what you said and meant.

 

Yes, both bear responsibility. I'm glad you saw the light.

 

You honestly think Cora is doing or trying nothing or maybe just not doing enough? He's just "letting it happen?"

 

Like if he spent 24/7 with these guys on D, they'd be any better?

 

These guys suck on D. They always have. It might take years to turn them into just average.

 

Just blame Bloom. You are much better at that.

You really are a dimwit. Read my post where I said that players still make mistakes at the MLB level. Buffoon.

 

Edit: and you are the master of moving goal posts. I never even implied that Cora wasn’t trying to correct the situation. The fact is that he has not corrected it.

Edited September 2, 2021 by a700hitter

[moonslav59]

You really are a dimwit. Read my post where I said that players still make mistakes at the MLB level. Buffoon.

 

You keep acting like if I just understood what you mean, I'd see your freaking wisdom.

 

I know exactly what you said and mean.

 

I disagree and think your position is silly. Call me a douche bag all you wish, but I know your position.

[a700hitter]

You keep acting like if I just understood what you mean, I'd see your freaking wisdom.

 

I know exactly what you said and mean.

 

I disagree and think your position is silly. Call me a douche bag all you wish, but I know your position.

You know jackshit.

[moonslav59]

You know jackshit.

 

Knowing your positions is no scholarly achievement.

[a700hitter]

Knowing your positions is no scholarly achievement.

Luckily, you don’t have any.

[moonslav59]

Talk about assumptions.