trade deadline

[moonslav59]

Who is going to tell Sale not the max out? What you say is very logical.

 

So do you get as many innings as possible in the minors thinking that will lessen his chance of hurting himself if he does 'push' little harder once he gets to the majors?

 

What's the history of pitchers attempting to return and blowing his arm again? Anyone?

 

Nick, I was agreeing with you, and yes, nobody can tell Sale not to be fierce.

 

My point is he is more likely to go overboard in MLB than the minors and that is something the team controls. Like I said, at some point he will be ok to go all out. Does anyone know the exact date for that?

[Bellhorn04]

Nick, I was agreeing with you, and yes, nobody can tell Sale not to be fierce.

 

My point is he is more likely to go overboard in MLB than the minors and that is something the team controls. Like I said, at some point he will be ok to go all out. Does anyone know the exact date for that?

 

I expect they will just do a slow and steady ramp up in pitch counts. And obviously keep a sharp eye on him. Not sure there's much more to it than that.

[moonslav59]

I expect they will just do a slow and steady ramp up in pitch counts. And obviously keep a sharp eye on him. Not sure there's much more to it than that.

 

I agree.

 

The debate we were having is that Nick and I think, if he's pitching, why not let it be in the bigs, even if on a limited pitch count?

 

I think it's a good idea, but the danger might be that he overdoes it in the bigs where he would not do that in the minors, and maybe we should not bring him up until we think it's safe for him to go all out. (Not in terms of too many pitches but in throwing too hard.)

 

I'd say bring him up after this next minor league game in a limited role, at first. Dangers and all.

[Nick]

Switching topic to 1B

 

We always need to be mindful of what the organization is doing.....

 

They have worked out Cordero at 1B his last couple of weeks in the minors.

 

He is starting today at 1B against the Yankees.

 

Are we waiting on Arroyo to return? Waiting on a trade? Or are we hoping for a miracle with Cordero? He gets hot the second time around?

 

(I see that he struck out his first at bat.)

[Bellhorn04]

Switching topic to 1B

 

We always need to be mindful of what the organization is doing.....

 

They have worked out Cordero at 1B his last couple of weeks in the minors.

 

He is starting today at 1B against the Yankees.

 

Are we waiting on Arroyo to return? Waiting on a trade? Or are we hoping for a miracle with Cordero? He gets hot the second time around?

 

Waiting on Arroyo, trying all internal options, and likely exploring a trade.

[moonslav59]

When Arroyo returns, I think he plays 1B vs RHPs.

 

Dalbec plays 1B vs LHPs.

 

Arroyo plays 2B vs LHPs.

 

Kike plays OF vs LHPs. (Someone sits: Duran, Verdugo, Arroyo, Kike or even give Bogey a rest and play Arroyo at SS.)

[Nick]

When Arroyo returns, I think he plays 1B vs RHPs.

 

Dalbec plays 1B vs LHPs.

 

Arroyo plays 2B vs LHPs.

 

Kike plays OF vs LHPs. (Someone sits: Duran, Verdugo, Arroyo, Kike or even give Bogey a rest and play Arroyo at SS.)

 

That makes too much sense......really bummed Arroyo got hurt. He'll be that 'tough out' guy in my view. He was a first round pick after all.

[notin]

I do think your two statements are kind of contradictory though.

 

Your post about going over the luxury tax suggests that we should do whatever it takes to win this season because we don't know what will happen next season. Your post about Sale suggests that we should be more concerned about next season as opposed to how Sale might help us this season.

 

Not really contradictory.

 

There’s a difference between going in with te stuff you control (like payroll) vs the stuff you don’t (like health).

 

There’s also a difference between using Sale and counting on Sale, as he could take longer to get ready and/or might re-injure himself quickly…

[oldtimer]

That makes too much sense......really bummed Arroyo got hurt. He'll be that 'tough out' guy in my view. He was a first round pick after all.

 

Hamstrings take quite a while to heal. Up to 6 weeks depending on the severity. When they say strained, it still mean some tearing, just less. The bad ones can leave you black and blue from the knee up. I am a big Arroyo fan and would like him back, so hope he can recover quickly.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

When Arroyo returns, I think he plays 1B vs RHPs.

 

Dalbec plays 1B vs LHPs.

 

Arroyo plays 2B vs LHPs.

 

Kike plays OF vs LHPs. (Someone sits: Duran, Verdugo, Arroyo, Kike or even give Bogey a rest and play Arroyo at SS.)

 

Boy I don't know about that. I like Arroyo and want his bat in the lineup but Cora sounded upset with himself for playing him there and then watching him get hurt. I read his quote to mean he won't make that mistake again.

[moonslav59]

Boy I don't know about that. I like Arroyo and want his bat in the lineup but Cora sounded upset with himself for playing him there and then watching him get hurt. I read his quote to mean he won't make that mistake again.

 

Kike had about 90 innings at 1B. I was surprised they moved Arroyo.

 

Maybe Kike plays 1B, despite it being a waste of his defense.

[oldtimer]

Kike had about 90 innings at 1B. I was surprised they moved Arroyo.

 

Maybe Kike plays 1B, despite it being a waste of his defense.

I still think they trade for a first baseman. It would be a luxury to have Arroyo to fill in at 2nd and SS and Hernandez to take some outfield. The players will need rest and there is the injury issue to watch out for.

[moonslav59]

I still think they trade for a first baseman. It would be a luxury to have Arroyo to fill in at 2nd and SS and Hernandez to take some outfield. The players will need rest and there is the injury issue to watch out for.

 

I think we do, too. I don't think it will be a big name player. It might even be a platoon player.

 

I also would not be surprised to see Bloom pull a Rays move by trading Richards, Perez or Sawamura to cut salary and allow us to deal for a better pitcher and 1Bman.

 

We may end up with a roster squeeze when Sale and Sawamura are ready, and I'm not even looking at Andriese, Brasier and Seabold.

 

Sale

Eovaldi

ERod

Pivetta

Perez

Richards

 

Barnes

Ottavino

Whitlock

Houck

Taylor

DHern

 

That's 12 and all deserve to stay on the 26.

 

If we go with 13, it's Sawamura.

 

Bye bye to Andriese- DFA'd- no options

Bye by to Workman- DFA'd- no options

Bye bye to Valdez (demoted with 2 options)

Bye bye to Rios (demoted with one option)

 

No Brasier or Seabold

 

If we trade for a pitcher and go with 12 pitchers, what 2 pitchers go?

 

If we go with 13, one has to go (DHern demoted, really?)

 

We could be buyers and sellers.

 

Trade Richards, Perez or Sawamura and save some money. The return prospect might be unpromising.

 

Then use the money saved to trade for 2 salary dump players: P and 1B.

[Nick]

Sale in his third minor league start went for 64 pitches...his fastball toping out at 96 MPH (it hit 98 MPH). I wonder what the targeted goal is in terms of pitch count before he's up with the Sox?

[moonslav59]

Sale in his third minor league start went for 64 pitches...his fastball toping out at 96 MPH (it hit 98 MPH). I wonder what the targeted goal is in terms of pitch count before he's up with the Sox?

 

I'll take 64 from Sale over 84 from Perez or Richards.

 

Plus, it might be up to 75-85 after this next start.

 

Number of pitches by Richards and Perez, their last 5 starts:

 

Richards: 54, 94, 92, 85, 82

 

Perez: 67, 86, 79, 73, 62 (80 today)

 

My guess is 70-75 pitches from Sale gets us more IP than 80-85 by Perez or Richards.

Edited July 25, 2021 by moonslav59

[Nick]

I think we do, too. I don't think it will be a big name player. It might even be a platoon player.

 

I also would not be surprised to see Bloom pull a Rays move by trading Richards, Perez or Sawamura to cut salary and allow us to deal for a better pitcher and 1Bman.

 

We may end up with a roster squeeze when Sale and Sawamura are ready, and I'm not even looking at Andriese, Brasier and Seabold.

 

Sale

Eovaldi

ERod

Pivetta

Perez

Richards

 

Barnes

Ottavino

Whitlock

Houck

Taylor

DHern

 

That's 12 and all deserve to stay on the 26.

 

If we go with 13, it's Sawamura.

 

Bye bye to Andriese- DFA'd- no options

Bye by to Workman- DFA'd- no options

Bye bye to Valdez (demoted with 2 options)

Bye bye to Rios (demoted with one option)

 

No Brasier or Seabold

 

If we trade for a pitcher and go with 12 pitchers, what 2 pitchers go?

 

If we go with 13, one has to go (DHern demoted, really?)

 

We could be buyers and sellers.

 

Trade Richards, Perez or Sawamura and save some money. The return prospect might be unpromising.

 

Then use the money saved to trade for 2 salary dump players: P and 1B.

 

No way Darwinzon gets demoted. Sox sees him as able pitcher as long as he starts a clean inning so he can walk 2 batters and strike out 3.

 

Sawamura is very cheap, cost control guy for the Sox. Two years plus club option. I doubt he goes unless there's a good return.

 

Our cost for both Richards and Perez is their paychecks. We can trade them for PTBNL. Not sure if we get much for them other than taking on their salaries.

[Nick]

I'll take 64 from Sale over 84 from Perez or Richards.

 

Plus, it might be up to 75-85 after this next start.

 

If he's healthy tomorrow and after his next start, I don't see any point in having him pitch any longer in the minors.

[notin]

I think we do, too. I don't think it will be a big name player. It might even be a platoon player.

 

I also would not be surprised to see Bloom pull a Rays move by trading Richards, Perez or Sawamura to cut salary and allow us to deal for a better pitcher and 1Bman.

 

We may end up with a roster squeeze when Sale and Sawamura are ready, and I'm not even looking at Andriese, Brasier and Seabold.

 

Sale

Eovaldi

ERod

Pivetta

Perez

Richards

 

Barnes

Ottavino

Whitlock

Houck

Taylor

DHern

 

That's 12 and all deserve to stay on the 26.

 

If we go with 13, it's Sawamura.

 

Bye bye to Andriese- DFA'd- no options

Bye by to Workman- DFA'd- no options

Bye bye to Valdez (demoted with 2 options)

Bye bye to Rios (demoted with one option)

 

No Brasier or Seabold

 

If we trade for a pitcher and go with 12 pitchers, what 2 pitchers go?

 

If we go with 13, one has to go (DHern demoted, really?)

 

We could be buyers and sellers.

 

Trade Richards, Perez or Sawamura and save some money. The return prospect might be unpromising.

 

Then use the money saved to trade for 2 salary dump players: P and 1B.

 

Sticking with my Matt Beaty prediction at first. I’m on a roll after my clear victory picking the first 4 picks in the draft. (I’ve adopted the stance that I was right, but Pittsburgh, Texas, Detroit and Boston all got it wrong.)

[moonslav59]

No way Darwinzon gets demoted. Sox sees him as able pitcher as long as he starts a clean inning so he can walk 2 batters and strike out 3.

 

Sawamura is very cheap, cost control guy for the Sox. Two years plus club option. I doubt he goes unless there's a good return.

 

Our cost for both Richards and Perez is their paychecks. We can trade them for PTBNL. Not sure if we get much for them other than taking on their salaries.

 

YES! That's how I see it. We may even have to pitch in some cash to offset some of their salaries, but we'd still cut some salary. The return is not important.

 

The roster slot opened makes us not have to demote DHern or Sawamura.

 

We still end up adding a pitcher in another trade- a pitcher better than Richards or Perez.

 

Sale replaces Workman

 

New pitcher replaces Richards/Perez.

 

I only mentioned Sawamura, because I think he has trade value, and I'd rather have DHern than him.

[moonslav59]

If he's healthy tomorrow and after his next start, I don't see any point in having him pitch any longer in the minors.

 

Sale looked pretty good today, except for the 6 hits in 3.2IP (1 HR and 3 DBLs).

 

64 pitches

46 strikes

 

9 Ks out of 11 outs!

 

0 BBs

 

Maybe one more start might be best, but I still think he's better now, than Richards or Perez.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Jeter Downs, D.Feltman, and A.Scherff to the Marlins (Jeter will want Downs and the Marlins are somewhat thin in middle infield talent) for J.Aguilar and A.Bender.

 

The Red Sox lineup after the trade:

Hernandez 2b

Martinez DH

Devers 3b

Bogaerts SS

Aguilar 1b

Verdugo LF

Renfroe RF

Vazquez C

Duran CF

Edited July 25, 2021 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Bellhorn04]

Jeter Downs and D.Feltman to the Marlins (Jeter will want Downs and the Marlins are somewhat thin in middle infield talent) for J.Aguilar and A.Bender.

 

It would be pretty wild if they do trade Downs to Miami.

[Nick]

We may need an infielder while Arroyo, Marwin and Santana are on the IL. Reports are that they're not coming back any time soon.

[moonslav59]

I guess teams aren't waiting for the deadline.

 

Adam Frazier to SDP for 3 prospects, including their #5.

 

[sk7326]

Sale looked pretty good today, except for the 6 hits in 3.2IP (1 HR and 3 DBLs).

 

64 pitches

46 strikes

 

9 Ks out of 11 outs!

 

0 BBs

 

Maybe one more start might be best, but I still think he's better now, than Richards or Perez.

 

 

Strikeouts are there - and in these rehab starts always have to be careful at the box score ... we don't know what he was working on. But yeah he's going to be a great addition.

[Nick]

Strikeouts are there - and in these rehab starts always have to be careful at the box score ... we don't know what he was working on. But yeah he's going to be a great addition.

 

Good point.

[Kimmi]

Must be a stressful time for the players , especially those with families. You don't know where you are going to be in a week or less.

 

I hate the trade deadline. And the entire offseason. All of the rumors and speculation drive me crazy. I can't imagine what the players go through. It might not be so bad if you're on a losing team and you hear rumors about being traded to a contender, but it has to be awful to be on the flip side of that.

[Kimmi]

Sale in his third minor league start went for 64 pitches...his fastball toping out at 96 MPH (it hit 98 MPH). I wonder what the targeted goal is in terms of pitch count before he's up with the Sox?

 

If I'm not mistaken, Cora wants him to get up to about 80-85 pitches. Sale reached the desired number of pitches in last night's outing, but did not reach the desired number of innings in terms of getting up and down. It sounds like 2 more minor league starts for him before being called up.

[Kimmi]

No way Darwinzon gets demoted. Sox sees him as able pitcher as long as he starts a clean inning so he can walk 2 batters and strike out 3.

 

Sawamura is very cheap, cost control guy for the Sox. Two years plus club option. I doubt he goes unless there's a good return.

 

Our cost for both Richards and Perez is their paychecks. We can trade them for PTBNL. Not sure if we get much for them other than taking on their salaries.

 

I'm not sure why you want to trade our starting pitching for PTBNL. If we were out of contention, then sure, but not while we're in the midst of a playoff chase.

[notin]

I'm not sure why you want to trade our starting pitching for PTBNL. If we were out of contention, then sure, but not while we're in the midst of a playoff chase.

 

No kidding. The trade deadline is a time for contenders to increase pitching depth, not deplete it...