trade deadline

[Hugh2]

LOL.

 

It's what softy did.

 

I also remember he was absolutely obsessed with bashing players he thought were "soft" and for the longest time Jacoby Ellsbury was his primary target. We had to dump Jacoby and trade for Matt Kemp.

[Hugh2]

Not to toot my own horn here, well who am I kidding of course I am, my perspective of Schwarber staying in the OF so Bobby can stay at 1b is starting to look really good.

 

Of course, one could say he should just be DHing with his atrocious defense but I don't think you take a guy like JDM out of the lineup just because he's been cold.

[moonslav59]

I also remember he was absolutely obsessed with bashing players he thought were "soft" and for the longest time Jacoby Ellsbury was his primary target. We had to dump Jacoby and trade for Matt Kemp.

 

"Punch and Judy-hitter Jake.

[notin]

I also remember he was absolutely obsessed with bashing players he thought were "soft" and for the longest time Jacoby Ellsbury was his primary target. We had to dump Jacoby and trade for Matt Kemp.

 

Matt Kemp was a georom target, not softlaw. Softlaw did hate Ellsbury but fawned incessantly over Bradley. But when JBJ struggled early on, softie finally and mercifully just disappeared…

[moonslav59]

Not to toot my own horn here, well who am I kidding of course I am, my perspective of Schwarber staying in the OF so Bobby can stay at 1b is starting to look really good.

 

Of course, one could say he should just be DHing with his atrocious defense but I don't think you take a guy like JDM out of the lineup just because he's been cold.

 

I guess "cold" depends on the cherry-picked sample size. I can find...

 

.955 in his last 5 games (22 PAs).

 

I guess, for JD, .769 since July 8th (182 PAs) is "cold," but we are cheering Dalbec for approaching that number for the season.

 

.821 in his last 53 games (227 PAs)

[moonslav59]

Matt Kemp was a georom target, not softlaw. Softlaw did hate Ellsbury but fawned incessantly over Bradley. But when JBJ struggled early on, softie finally and mercifully just disappeared…

 

He also loved Coco Crisp and never forgave Theo for trading him not Jake.

[mvp 78]

I also remember he was absolutely obsessed with bashing players he thought were "soft" and for the longest time Jacoby Ellsbury was his primary target. We had to dump Jacoby and trade for Matt Kemp.

 

As jacko would often say "Ellsbury is made of glass." He stopped saying that when Ellsbury signed with the Yankees for some reason. I don't know why?

[mvp 78]

Not to toot my own horn here, well who am I kidding of course I am, my perspective of Schwarber staying in the OF so Bobby can stay at 1b is starting to look really good.

 

Of course, one could say he should just be DHing with his atrocious defense but I don't think you take a guy like JDM out of the lineup just because he's been cold.

 

Also, Schwarber didn't look very good at 1B.

[mvp 78]

He also loved Coco Crisp and never forgave Theo for trading him not Jake.

 

Coco was very good through 2013. They should have kept Coco and never signed Crawford.

 

CC 0.0 fWAR 2011, 130 games

Coco 2.0 fWAR 2011, 136 games

 

Coco had a 3.7 fWAR season in 2013

[moonslav59]

Coco was very good through 2013. They should have kept Coco and never signed Crawford.

 

CC 0.0 fWAR 2011, 130 games

Coco 2.0 fWAR 2011, 136 games

 

Coco had a 3.7 fWAR season in 2013

 

I loved Coco- especially his defense over the early version of Ellsbury. I expected more after his best 2 seasons before the trade and the fact that we got him pre-prime.

 

We should remember, Ellsbury greatly improved on his initial breaks on fly balls and the routes he took to get to them. He was a plus defender before he left Boston. He was iffy out of the gate.

[Bellhorn04]

I guess "cold" depends on the cherry-picked sample size. I can find...

 

.955 in his last 5 games (22 PAs).

 

I guess, for JD, .769 since July 8th (182 PAs) is "cold," but we are cheering Dalbec for approaching that number for the season.

 

.821 in his last 53 games (227 PAs)

 

JD makes 22 million a year and needs to OPS 900 to earn it.

 

Comps with Dalbec are 'specious', as Softlaw might say.

[mvp 78]

I loved Coco- especially his defense over the early version of Ellsbury. I expected more after his best 2 seasons before the trade and the fact that we got him pre-prime.

 

We should remember, Ellsbury greatly improved on his initial breaks on fly balls and the routes he took to get to them. He was a plus defender before he left Boston. He was iffy out of the gate.

 

Uh, he had a 21.6 UZR/150 in 2007, -1 DRS. Those numbers are vastly better than Duran. Duran just isn't good out there. I'm not sure he even shows promise.

[mvp 78]

JD makes 22 million a year and needs to OPS 900 to earn it.

 

Comps with Dalbec are 'specious', as Softlaw might say.

 

Yes, because you'd take that 20M+ and put it towards pitching instead of using it all on a DH, which should be the easiest position to fill. I think going forward, the Sox should NOT go for any DH only guys in FA. Cora likes a versatile lineup and having a guy like JD or Ortiz kinda limits what you can do on a day to day basis.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, because you'd take that 20M+ and put it towards pitching instead of using it all on a DH, which should be the easiest position to fill. I think going forward, the Sox should NOT go for any DH only guys in FA. Cora likes a versatile lineup and having a guy like JD or Ortiz kinda limits what you can do on a day to day basis.

 

OTOH Ortiz and JD are pretty special hitters who were very helpful in winning 4 rings.

[mvp 78]

OTOH Ortiz and JD are pretty special hitters who were very helpful in winning 4 rings.

 

How did Ortiz and JD fare in years when the starting pitching didn't quite have it?

[Bellhorn04]

How did Ortiz and JD fare in years when the starting pitching didn't quite have it?

 

I'm not sure that's a serious question, but for a couple of recent examples:

 

2019 JD OPS .939

2015 Ortiz OPS .913

 

So it would be a "they were not the problem" thing.

[moonslav59]

JD makes 22 million a year and needs to OPS 900 to earn it.

 

Comps with Dalbec are 'specious', as Softlaw might say.

 

LOL. Is it expected he never have a stretch of .769 hitting?

 

He may still end up near .900, or better yet, hit 1.200 in the playoffs.

[moonslav59]

Uh, he had a 21.6 UZR/150 in 2007, -1 DRS. Those numbers are vastly better than Duran. Duran just isn't good out there. I'm not sure he even shows promise.

 

I'm not sure, either. I just used Ellsbury as an example of someone who started out shaky on breaks and routes, and ended up being a plus, maybe thanks to his speed, but Duran has that, too.

 

So far, I agree, Duran has not looked good on D, but he barely has over 200 innings out there. I'm willing to cut him some slack.

 

He should only play LF until he shows he can do more.

[mvp 78]

I'm not sure that's a serious question, but for a couple of recent examples:

 

2019 JD OPS .939

2015 Ortiz OPS .913

 

So it would be a "they were not the problem" thing.

 

I meant less about individual statistics, but more of "what were they doing that October." When the Sox have pitched well, they've gone to the playoffs. When the Sox have pitched poorly, they've been medicore to also rans(2005, 2006, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015). If it wasn't for the pitching, Ortiz and JD would have never made it to the WS with the Sox.

 

2004: Schilling addition

2007: Beckett, Paplebon, Lester rookie year

2013: renaissance for Lester/Buch/Lackey and Kojimania

2018: Sale/Price/Eovaldi/Kimbrell

[moonslav59]

Yes, because you'd take that 20M+ and put it towards pitching instead of using it all on a DH, which should be the easiest position to fill. I think going forward, the Sox should NOT go for any DH only guys in FA. Cora likes a versatile lineup and having a guy like JD or Ortiz kinda limits what you can do on a day to day basis.

 

Is Schwarber a DH only guy, or is he good enough in LF to keep around.

[mvp 78]

Is Schwarber a DH only guy, or is he good enough in LF to keep around.

 

Part time LF? He was better when he was younger (2015-2018). He's still only 28, but plays the field like he's closer to mid 30's.

[moonslav59]

Ellsbury

 

DRS

 

First 4 years in BOS

-1

3

-15

1

 

Last 3 years in BOS

9

2

13

 

[moonslav59]

Part time LF? He was better when he was younger (2015-2018). He's still only 28, but plays the field like he's closer to mid 30's.

 

Agreed, and since he'd play half is games in Fenway's LF and 9 or so in RF at NYY, maybe the defense can be hidden a bit.

 

1B is highly questionable, but if Dalbec's defense does not improve at 1B, how much of a drop off can he be there?

 

With JD likely gone after 1 year, assuming no opt out, we'd have to live with poorer D for a year, then he DH's, but again, how much should we pay a DH-only guy?

 

Is Schwarber any better than JD on defense? He may also be an injury risk the more he plays D- just like JD.

[Maxbialystock]

I'm not sure, either. I just used Ellsbury as an example of someone who started out shaky on breaks and routes, and ended up being a plus, maybe thanks to his speed, but Duran has that, too.

 

So far, I agree, Duran has not looked good on D, but he barely has over 200 innings out there. I'm willing to cut him some slack.

 

He should only play LF until he shows he can do more.

 

And that's the rub, isn't it? Even with Kike out, the Sox are not desperate for outfielders--not since Duran locked up rookie of the month for August with an OPS over 1.200, 7 dingers and 21 rbi's. He's now a lock at 1b, and there is absolutely no way he cannot master that position defensively.

 

Cora, meanwhile, must get both Schwarber and JDM into the lineup, which means one of them gets LF on any given night. Indeed, when Kike returns, Cora will have too many outfielders: Kike, Renfroe, Verdugo, and JDM/Schwarber. Duran will be moved to pinchrunner/batboy.

[Bellhorn04]

I meant less about individual statistics, but more of "what were they doing that October." When the Sox have pitched well, they've gone to the playoffs. When the Sox have pitched poorly, they've been medicore to also rans(2005, 2006, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015). If it wasn't for the pitching, Ortiz and JD would have never made it to the WS with the Sox.

 

2004: Schilling addition

2007: Beckett, Paplebon, Lester rookie year

2013: renaissance for Lester/Buch/Lackey and Kojimania

2018: Sale/Price/Eovaldi/Kimbrell

 

Pitching is crucial, but it's a team game.

 

I don't think we would have gotten out of that 2004 ALCS without Ortiz...and so on.

 

I'm surprised you're going down this road.

[Maxbialystock]

About the trade deadline, the topic of this thread. I still think Bloom made the right moves, which essentially were minimal even though Schwarber's performance has by no means been minimal.

 

Too bad about not getting at least 3 great bullpen arms--because, thanks to covid, the demise or Barnes as closer, etc--that's probably what the Sox needed. One arm would not have sufficed.

 

Meanwhile, however, Richards has blossomed, and by my count Cora right now has three excellent long relievers in Whitlock, Richards, and Valdez, with Richards being an absolutely astounding surprise. Last night he was once again dazzling--3 innings, no runs--against a very tough Rays lineup.

 

So my question for all the boo birds--those who feel Bloom ain't doing his job--is who acquired those three superb long relievers? DD? No way. DD has never even visited a bargain basement.

[Bellhorn04]

About the trade deadline, the topic of this thread. I still think Bloom made the right moves, which essentially were minimal even though Schwarber's performance has by no means been minimal.

 

Too bad about not getting at least 3 great bullpen arms--because, thanks to covid, the demise or Barnes as closer, etc--that's probably what the Sox needed. One arm would not have sufficed.

 

Meanwhile, however, Richards has blossomed, and by my count Cora right now has three excellent long relievers in Whitlock, Richards, and Valdez, with Richards being an absolutely astounding surprise. Last night he was once again dazzling--3 innings, no runs--against a very tough Rays lineup.

 

So my question for all the boo birds--those who feel Bloom ain't doing his job--is who acquired those three superb long relievers? DD? No way. DD has never even visited a bargain basement.

 

Richards is making 10 million, so there's a bit of a flaw in the bargain long reliever thing.

[moonslav59]

Richards is making 10 million, so there's a bit of a flaw in the bargain long reliever thing.

 

Ottavino is not overpaid, IMO, but he's not bargain basement, either.

 

Neither is Perez or Barnes.

[mvp 78]

Pitching is crucial, but it's a team game.

 

I don't think we would have gotten out of that 2004 ALCS without Ortiz...and so on.

 

I'm surprised you're going down this road.

 

I agree, but it's clear that a bigger part of postseason success is due to the starting rotation. If they go cheaper on DH and spend on the rotation, I think you have a better chance of getting to the playoffs. I think you still need some big bats, but it doesn't have to be the traditional DH only types. If payroll isn't a consideration (like in the early Ortiz years and early JD years) then you have the luxury to go nuts at DH. Seems like the purse strings are a little tighter now.

[mvp 78]

Richards is making 10 million, so there's a bit of a flaw in the bargain long reliever thing.

 

He's the closer and makes the right amount of money for that position.