A Realistic View at 2021: Part II

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

This is no disrespect on Bloom, I think he's done a great job, but the unexpected success of this team, so far, may have put a crimp in Bloom's plans for this season. I would have to think that Bloom is as surprised as the rest of us where the SOX are right now.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Chavis has been a train wreck in his latest major league stint: 3-for-25 (.120) with nine strikeouts. I suspect he gets demoted when Arroyo returns?

 

Let's say the Red Sox trade Jeter Downs, preferably for some kind of pitching upgrade. They would need Arroyo to hold down the 2b position for a couple of years until N.Yorke is ready, but Arroyo is only 26 years old (I thought he was older for some reason) and so he could be the starting 2b for a few years.

 

Moreover, since it is pretty safe to assume that Duran will be the starting CF in 2022, the Red Sox will have Hernandez and Arroyo for 2b in 2022. N.Yorke can hit--it won't take long for him to reach the majors and thus Jeter Downs is expendable.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Let's say the Red Sox upgrade the 1b position with a player like C.Santana, I'm trying to figure out Duran's role for the 2021 season.

 

Promote Duran, release D.Santana. Even though Duran does not have a starting job, he plays almost everyday. The Red Sox would have 5 starting spots for 6 players: Duran, Verdugo, Hernandez, Renfroe, Martinez, and Arroyo. The Red Sox would rest one of the 6 every game, rotating the rest so that all 6 players would start 5 out of 6 games.

 

Game 1 (Duran rests)

Santana 1b

Verdugo LF

Martinez DH

Bogaerts SS

Devers 3b

Renfroe RF

Hernandez CF

Vazquez C

Arroyo 2b

 

Game 2 (Verdugo rests)

Santana 1b

Duran LF

Martinez DH

Bogaerts SS

Devers 3b

Renfroe RF

Hernandez CF

Vazquez C

Arroyo 2b

 

Game 3 (Hernandez rests)

Santana 1b

Verdugo LF

Martinez DH

Bogaerts SS

Devers 3b

Renfroe RF

Duran CF

Vazquez C

Arroyo 2b

 

Game 4 (Renfroe rests)

Santana 1b

Verdugo RF

Martinez DH

Bogaerts SS

Devers 3b

Hernandez CF

Duran LF

Vazquez C

Arroyo 2b

 

Game 5 (Arroyo rests)

Santana 1b

Verdugo LF

Martinez DH

Bogaerts SS

Devers 3b

Renfroe RF

Duran CF

Herrnandez 2b

Vazquez C

 

Game 6 (Martinez rests)

Santana 1b

Verdugo LF

Bogaerts SS

Devers 3b

Renfroe RF

Duran DH

Hernandez CF

Vazquez C

Arroyo 2b

Edited July 5, 2021 by Fan_since_Boggs

[iortiz]

Let's say the Red Sox upgrade the 1b position with a player like C.Santana, I'm trying to figure out Duran's role for the 2021 season.

 

Promote Duran, release D.Santana. Even though Duran does not have a starting job, he plays almost everyday. The Red Sox would have 5 starting spots for 6 players: Duran, Verdugo, Hernandez, Renfroe, Martinez, and Arroyo. The Red Sox would rest one of the 6 every game, rotating the rest so that all 6 players would start 5 out of 6 games.

 

Game 1 (Duran rests)

Santana 1b

Verdugo LF

Martinez DH

Bogaerts SS

Devers 3b

Renfroe RF

Hernandez CF

Vazquez C

Arroyo 2b

 

Game 2 (Verdugo rests)

Santana 1b

Duran LF

Martinez DH

Bogaerts SS

Devers 3b

Renfroe RF

Hernandez CF

Vazquez C

Arroyo 2b

 

Game 3 (Hernandez rests)

Santana 1b

Verdugo LF

Martinez DH

Bogaerts SS

Devers 3b

Renfroe RF

Duran CF

Vazquez C

Arroyo 2b

 

Game 4 (Renfroe rests)

Santana 1b

Verdugo RF

Martinez DH

Bogaerts SS

Devers 3b

Hernandez CF

Duran LF

Vazquez C

Arroyo 2b

 

Game 5 (Arroyo rests)

Santana 1b

Verdugo LF

Martinez DH

Bogaerts SS

Devers 3b

Renfroe RF

Duran CF

Herrnandez 2b

Vazquez C

 

Game 6 (Martinez rests)

Santana 1b

Verdugo LF

Bogaerts SS

Devers 3b

Renfroe RF

Duran DH

Hernandez CF

Vazquez C

Arroyo 2b

 

Santana would be a huge addition and with Duran around this team could be even more dangerous.

 

Wonder what would the KCR ask for Santana?

[moonslav59]

Chavis has been a train wreck in his latest major league stint: 3-for-25 (.120) with nine strikeouts. I suspect he gets demoted when Arroyo returns?

 

Let's say the Red Sox trade Jeter Downs, preferably for some kind of pitching upgrade. They would need Arroyo to hold down the 2b position for a couple of years until N.Yorke is ready, but Arroyo is only 26 years old (I thought he was older for some reason) and so he could be the starting 2b for a few years.

 

Moreover, since it is pretty safe to assume that Duran will be the starting CF in 2022, the Red Sox will have Hernandez and Arroyo for 2b in 2022. N.Yorke can hit--it won't take long for him to reach the majors and thus Jeter Downs is expendable.

If Bogey opts out, Downs is our best chance at filling that slot from the system.

[Nick]

The WooSox withstood a late rally to win for the second straight day. The usual suspects led the offense, with Franchy Cordero going 3 for 4 with a double and a stolen base and Jarren Duran going 2 for 4 with a triple. Yairo Muñoz also had three hits, including a double, while Jeter Downs went 0 for 4.

 

Tanner Houck was sharp again as he continues to build back up from his injury, allowing one run on two hits over four innings. In 14 2/3 innings since coming off the injured list, he has an ERA of 3.07 with 19 strikeouts and three walks. Daniel Gossett allowed three runs in 4 1/3 innings out of the bullpen, though it could have been worse as he walked seven. Kaleb Ort got the final two outs, walking two and striking out two.

 

Not sure what more Coredo has to do. He's hitting .385 with ops of 1.120.

 

Kike can play 2B vs right handers and move Verdugo to center. I doubt he's ready to play 1B at major league level (pipe dream for 2021?).

Edited July 5, 2021 by Nick

[moonslav59]

Santana would be a huge addition and with Duran around this team could be even more dangerous.

 

Wonder what would the KCR ask for Santana?

 

Game 7, Santana sits. kike plays 1B.

[Maxbialystock]

WAR vs. Salary of 2021 Sox--

 

Devers 3.3/$4.575M

JDM 2.5/$19.35M

Verdugo 1.7/$650K

Renfroe 1.4/$3.1M

Vazquez 1.3/$6.25M

Rike Hernandez 1.9/$4.5M

Dalbec -1.0/$575K

Gonzalez .2/$3M

Arroyo 1.1/$582K

Cordero -.1/$571K

Santana -.5/$1.75M

Plawecki -.5/$1.6M

Chavis -.5/$.374K

Wong 0/$316K

Eovaldi 2.5/$17M

Pivetta 1.6/$614K

Whitlock 1.4/$571K

Barnes 1.3/$4.5M

Ottavino 1.0/$8.2M

Perez .8/$4.5M

Taylor .8/$581K

D. Hernandez .8/$578K

Sawamura .6/$1.2M

Workman .6/$710K

Valdez .2

Richards .1/$8.5K

ERodriguez .1/$8.3M

Houck .1

Rios 0

Andriese -.7/$1.85M

Brasier 0/$1.25M

Sale 0/$20M

David Price 0/$16M

Weber -.4/$3.067M

Benintendi 0/$2.8M

[oldtimer]

WAR vs. Salary of 2021 Sox--

 

Devers 3.3/$4.575M

JDM 2.5/$19.35M

Verdugo 1.7/$650K

Renfroe 1.4/$3.1M

Vazquez 1.3/$6.25M

Rike Hernandez 1.9/$4.5M

Dalbec -1.0/$575K

Gonzalez .2/$3M

Arroyo 1.1/$582K

Cordero -.1/$571K

Santana -.5/$1.75M

Plawecki -.5/$1.6M

Chavis -.5/$.374K

Wong 0/$316K

Eovaldi 2.5/$17M

Pivetta 1.6/$614K

Whitlock 1.4/$571K

Barnes 1.3/$4.5M

Ottavino 1.0/$8.2M

Perez .8/$4.5M

Taylor .8/$581K

D. Hernandez .8/$578K

Sawamura .6/$1.2M

Workman .6/$710K

Valdez .2

Richards .1/$8.5K

ERodriguez .1/$8.3M

Houck .1

Rios 0

Andriese -.7/$1.85M

Brasier 0/$1.25M

Sale 0/$20M

David Price 0/$16M

Weber -.4/$3.067M

Benintendi 0/$2.8M

 

Be an interesting comparison with the Yankees.

[notin]

Santana would be a huge addition and with Duran around this team could be even more dangerous.

 

Wonder what would the KCR ask for Santana?

 

No idea what KC would want, but BTV gives Santana a surplus value of 5.3. Comparable Sox players include Groome (4.3), Darwinzon (4.4), Whitlock (4.6), Renfroe (4.8), Seabold (6.0), and Yorke (6.8)…

[mvp 78]

If Bogey opts out, Downs is our best chance at filling that slot from the system.

 

He can play SS?

[moonslav59]

He can play SS?

 

Can Bogey?

 

All kidding aside, Downs is the starting SS at Worcester, so there is that.

[moonslav59]

No idea what KC would want, but BTV gives Santana a surplus value of 5.3. Comparable Sox players include Groome (4.3), Darwinzon (4.4), Whitlock (4.6), Renfroe (4.8), Seabold (6.0), and Yorke (6.8)…

 

Groome + Chavis=6.0

 

Santana + Duffy=4.1

 

Accepted

 

I think the money part keeps us under the tax limit.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

No idea what KC would want, but BTV gives Santana a surplus value of 5.3. Comparable Sox players include Groome (4.3), Darwinzon (4.4), Whitlock (4.6), Renfroe (4.8), Seabold (6.0), and Yorke (6.8)…

 

Do you know the values of Dalbec and Chris Murphy (a prospect on the rise)?

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Groome + Chavis=6.0

 

Santana + Duffy=4.1

 

Accepted

 

I think the money part keeps us under the tax limit.

 

This can't be right. If Santana has a value of 5.3, how can Santana and Duffy combined have a value of 4.1?

[moonslav59]

This can't be right. If Santana has a value of 5.3, how can Santana and Duffy combined have a value of 4.1?

 

Duffy has negative value due to his contract being worth more than he is.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Game 7, Santana sits. kike plays 1B.

I didn't kinow he could play first, but yeah, that would be 7 players for 6 starting spots, a nice way to give everyone a little rest while keeping Duran in the lineup.

 

Game 7 (Santana rests)

 

Duran CF

Verdugo LF

Martinez DH

Bogaerts SS

Devers 3b

Renfroe RF

Herrnandez 1b

Vazquez C

Arroyo 2b

[Maxbialystock]

You're telling me nothing I don't know. We're having a great season. We have top people in Bloom and Cora.

 

I was the first poster to argue that Whitlock was special. That he was being underutilized. Check it. He now pitches in high leverage situations.

 

You're smart guy, you think everything is great? Do you think our pitching right now is good enough to beat the Astros? How about Blue Jays? Our pitching may get by offensively impotent A's but I'm not sure it'll hold against top hitting ball clubs.

 

If you paid any attention, Workman was getting hammered last night and he was very lucky to get through his two innings.

 

My guess is Bloom is waiting for both Houck and Brasier at some point to get healthy enough to be called up.

 

But to pretend we have kick ass team because of our record is not comforting.

 

I've said often, I'm just asking for little tweak at the lower level of our 26 man roster.

 

Then, as I said, talk away. No disagreement this team has flaws even though: 1) the rotation is definitely looking better; 2) the bullpen has 7 relievers with WAR's ranging from +.6 to +1.3; and 3) the offense is 2d in MLB in runs scored and 3d in OPS. But this is definitely the month to make a move or two, and 1b is as good as any slot to fix.

[iortiz]

I didn't kinow he could play first, but yeah, that would be 7 players for 6 starting spots, a nice way to give everyone a little rest while keeping Duran in the lineup.

 

Game 7 (Santana rests)

 

Duran CF

Verdugo LF

Martinez DH

Bogaerts SS

Devers 3b

Renfroe RF

Herrnandez 1b

Vazquez C

Arroyo 2b

 

This lineup even without Santana looks pretty nasty and is what I’d put almost everyday.

 

With Carlos Santana there instead of Kike, this lineup would be simply ridiculous offensively.

 

Said that, trading for Santana, Dalbec could be dealt, which I’m not sure it is on Bloom’s plans.

[notin]

This can't be right. If Santana has a value of 5.3, how can Santana and Duffy combined have a value of 4.1?

 

Duffy has a value of -1.2, which happens when your remaining salary exceeds the value of your projected WAR…

[Larry Cook]

This lineup even without Santana looks pretty nasty and is what I’d put almost everyday.

 

With Carlos Santana there instead of Kike, this lineup would be simply ridiculous offensively.

 

Said that, trading for Santana, Dalbec could be dealt, which I’m not sure it is on Bloom’s plans.

 

Santana with an rbi tonight. He hit a change up about six inches off the outside part of the plate with a half swing.

 

Good news: is he got a hit and it scored a run.

 

Bad news: why was he even swinging at that pitch?

[moonslav59]

Santana with an rbi tonight. He hit a change up about six inches off the outside part of the plate with a half swing.

 

Good news: is he got a hit and it scored a run.

 

Bad news: why was he even swinging at that pitch?

 

Cause the dumb umps might call it a strike?

[Larry Cook]

Cause the dumb umps might call it a strike?

 

Good point. When is mlb going to outlaw umps that use the glavine strike zone?

[Fan_since_Boggs]

One thing about Ottavino: he isn't the youngest guy in the world, and, with the Yankees, he had a tendency to decline late in the season. I remember one year for the Yankees in which he was basically a non-factor in the playoffs. While he held on for the save last night against the Angels, Ottavino didn't look all that great.

 

At some point, the Red Sox might want to put him on the IL for some extra rest. In addition, it would be a good idea to trade for a high end relief arm just in case.

[Hugh2]

I didn't kinow he could play first, but yeah, that would be 7 players for 6 starting spots, a nice way to give everyone a little rest while keeping Duran in the lineup.

 

Game 7 (Santana rests)

 

Duran CF

Verdugo LF

Martinez DH

Bogaerts SS

Devers 3b

Renfroe RF

Herrnandez 1b

Vazquez C

Arroyo 2b

 

I'd be willing to place a gentlemans wager that theres no way Duran plays CF in Boston this year as long as either Verdugo or Kike are in the lineup. Verdugo is a much better fielder than Duran is right now.

[Bellhorn04]

I'd be willing to place a gentlemans wager that theres no way Duran plays CF in Boston this year as long as either Verdugo or Kike are in the lineup. Verdugo is a much better fielder than Duran is right now.

 

Kike is also a much better outfielder than Duran is right now, I believe.

[Bellhorn04]

More and more it looks like the one big need is another late inning reliever.

[moonslav59]

I'd be willing to place a gentlemans wager that theres no way Duran plays CF in Boston this year as long as either Verdugo or Kike are in the lineup. Verdugo is a much better fielder than Duran is right now.

He will in September.

 

If Arroyo or an OFer get hurt, he may earlier.

[moonslav59]

More and more it looks like the one big need is another late inning reliever.

 

Agreed.

 

I doubt we do anything at 1B since all these guys can play there:

 

Dalbec

Marwin

Kike

Santana

Cordero (maybe)

[mvp 78]

Agreed.

 

I doubt we do anything at 1B since all these guys can play there:

 

Dalbec

Marwin

Kike

Santana

Cordero (maybe)

 

Santana and Dalbec are the reason they need a 1b. Marwin is wasted at 1b and can’t hit. Kiké is the starting CF. Cordero is in AAA.