Beni traded to Royals

[notin]

If you're going to blow it up, blow it up....get rid of Boegarts, Devers, sell Sale, trade EROD. Hey, do it right.

 

That he has no dealt short time players like ERod, Vazquez and Bogaerts (if he decides to opt out) does make me think this is no fire sale. Benintendi looks like a definite case of selling low, but I don't think he would have been traded if his 2019 and 2020 were any better.

 

And it might not even be a case of selling low if Benintendi does not bounce back all that much. But that is up to Beni...

[moonslav59]

If you're going to blow it up, blow it up....get rid of Boegarts, Devers, sell Sale, trade EROD. Hey, do it right.

 

Maybe just start with the players with just 1-2 years of team control, whci could include Bogey due to his opt out.

 

I do not see our rebuild being a 3-5 year plan.

 

I'm looking at 2022 as being fairly competitive and 2023 as trying to be a top contender.

[notin]

Maybe just start with the players with just 1-2 years of team control, whci could include Bogey due to his opt out.

 

I do not see our rebuild being a 3-5 year plan.

 

I'm looking at 2022 as being fairly competitive and 2023 as trying to be a top contender.

 

They have too much money invested in Sale and are very reliant on him for a competitive window. The hope for 2021 is they are watchable and somewhat competitive, but 2022 should be business as usual...

[moonslav59]

They have too much money invested in Sale and are very reliant on him for a competitive window. The hope for 2021 is they are watchable and somewhat competitive, but 2022 should be business as usual...

 

Agreed. Sale stays- as does Devers.

 

If I had to project the next big name to be dealt away, I'd say Vaz.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Well, I'm going to simplify the 3 team deal......in my mind, Red Sox essentially traded Beni for 2 year control of Japanese reliever Sawamura ($$ works out about right). Red Sox also received Cordero and three players to be named later. Bloom wanted additional security in the pen. Bloom also wanted no part of wasting at bats for fast aging Beni. Beni was not in our future plan.

 

Ok, but if a guy still young enough to haven't reached his prime isn't part of the future, then what is the plan? Right now there is no core of regulars, a group that needs time to play together, develop into a contender, and grow on a fandom that identifies with familiar faces.

 

Please don't tell me the plan is to give playing time to Renfroe and Cordero, and just when they become fan favorites, maximum their value at the trade deadline by exchanging them for prospects...

[notin]

Agreed. Sale stays- as does Devers.

 

If I had to project the next big name to be dealt away, I'd say Vaz.

 

If the Sox are out of it in July, ERod and Barnes jump to close to the top if not the outright top. Pitching nets a better return in July than position players typically get...

[notin]

Ok, but if a guy still young enough to haven't reached his prime isn't part of the future, then what is the plan? Right now there is no core of regulars, a group that needs time to play together, develop into a contender, and grow on a fandom that identifies with familiar faces.

 

Please don't tell me the plan is to give playing time to Renfroe and Cordero, and just when they become fan favorites, maximum their value at the trade deadline by exchanging them for prospects...

 

Cordero has 3 years of control, so he probably is not trade fodder just yet. Renfroe might be, but he is going to have to make himself look like a worthwhile acquisition...

[harmony]

The trade undermines the credibility of Baseball Trade Values, which remains an entertaining website.

 

According to BTV, Kansas City gave up Khalil Lee and Franchy Cordero, with a combined surplus value of $12.8 million, for Andrew Benintendi's surplus value of $4.6 million, plus $2.8 million in cash (a combined value of $7.4 million). The disparity widens because the Royals reportedly remain on the hook for two players to be named headed to Boston.

 

The Royals likely valued Benintendi more than BTV did.

 

The New York Mets, on the other hand, received the $9.3 million surplus value of Lee while so far surrendering only the $300,000 surplus value of Josh Winckowski. That $9 million difference could bode well for the Red Sox as the Mets could send the Sox a significant piece as the player to be named.

 

Or not.

 

Certainly a trade worthy of analysis.

[notin]

The trade undermines the credibility of Baseball Trade Values, which remains an entertaining website.

 

According to BTV, Kansas City gave up Khalil Lee and Franchy Cordero, with a combined surplus value of $12.8 million, for Andrew Benintendi's surplus value of $4.6 million, plus $2.8 million in cash (a combined value of $7.4 million). The disparity widens because the Royals reportedly remain on the hook for two players to be named headed to Boston.

 

The Royals likely valued Benintendi more than BTV did.

 

The New York Mets, on the other hand, received the $9.3 million surplus value of Lee while so far surrendering only the $300,000 surplus value of Josh Winckowski. That $9 million difference could bode well for the Red Sox as the Mets could send the Sox a significant piece as the player to be named.

 

Or not.

 

Certainly a trade worthy of analysis.

 

Also possible they valued Lee a lot less than BTV does.

 

With 3 PTBNL's, the trade is far from complete. And it is very unlikely KC sends a player with a negative value to even out the BTV score.

 

The best reason I can think of for so may PTBNLs is the Sox are trying to gauge what prospects from each team they want (and KC and NYM were willing to give up), but due to the cancellation of last year's minor league seasons, the scouting data is a bit outdated. So they will see what goes on with their select names by August before determining who is coming back...

[mvp 78]

The trade undermines the credibility of Baseball Trade Values, which remains an entertaining website.

 

According to BTV, Kansas City gave up Khalil Lee and Franchy Cordero, with a combined surplus value of $12.8 million, for Andrew Benintendi's surplus value of $4.6 million, plus $2.8 million in cash (a combined value of $7.4 million). The disparity widens because the Royals reportedly remain on the hook for two players to be named headed to Boston.

 

The Royals likely valued Benintendi more than BTV did.

 

The New York Mets, on the other hand, received the $9.3 million surplus value of Lee while so far surrendering only the $300,000 surplus value of Josh Winckowski. That $9 million difference could bode well for the Red Sox as the Mets could send the Sox a significant piece as the player to be named.

 

Or not.

 

Certainly a trade worthy of analysis.

 

If only Bloom had checked BTV we wouldn't be in this mess.

[moonslav59]

If the Sox are out of it in July, ERod and Barnes jump to close to the top if not the outright top. Pitching nets a better return in July than position players typically get...

 

100%. Vaz might be next on the list after all the one year players have been shopped.

 

Bogey is the tough call.

[jad]

Ok, but if a guy still young enough to haven't reached his prime isn't part of the future, then what is the plan? Right now there is no core of regulars, a group that needs time to play together, develop into a contender, and grow on a fandom that identifies with familiar faces.

 

Please don't tell me the plan is to give playing time to Renfroe and Cordero, and just when they become fan favorites, maximum their value at the trade deadline by exchanging them for prospects...

 

Exactly. Bloom/Henry are more concerned with, say, 'making their mark' on a team than producing something that fans might actually want to follow. Now, to complete the plan, I assume Vaz and Boggaerts go for a few International league players, and Bloom will finally have created 'his' team.

 

It's really a shame the RS don't have the financial resources, and obviously don't have a strong enough fan base or a popular enough venue to be competitive.

[moonslav59]

Also possible they valued Lee a lot less than BTV does.

 

With 3 PTBNL's, the trade is far from complete. And it is very unlikely KC sends a player with a negative value to even out the BTV score.

 

The best reason I can think of for so may PTBNLs is the Sox are trying to gauge what prospects from each team they want (and KC and NYM were willing to give up), but due to the cancellation of last year's minor league seasons, the scouting data is a bit outdated. So they will see what goes on with their select names by August before determining who is coming back...

 

Had the Royals sent Duffy to the Mets, it would all have come out pretty even, assuming the Sox get some value from the 3 PTBNLs.

 

Had we gone by BTV, we'd have just trade Beni for Lee and 2 PTBNLs and got a big plus rating.

[moonslav59]

Exactly. Bloom/Henry are more concerned with, say, 'making their mark' on a team than producing something that fans might actually want to follow. Now, to complete the plan, I assume Vaz and Boggaerts go for a few International league players, and Bloom will finally have created 'his' team.

 

I never bought into that kind of thinking.

 

Had Bloom liked Beni and/or not been looking beyond 2022, Beni would still be here.

[notin]

I never bought into that kind of thinking.

 

Had Bloom liked Beni and/or not been looking beyond 2022, Beni would still be here.

 

Some Sox fans might have reached the “He traded one guy so he’s clearly trading EVERYONE” mentality...

[jad]

So the RS have essentially cut ties with their past, getting rid of the majority of players that are part of that past. ALSO part of that past, however, are the thousands and thousands of fans who have supported them, in many cases, for decades. If our admittedly sentimental attachment to particular players doesn't count, then what does? When you see kids going to the ball-park, they don't spend their time studying dWAR or FanGraphs or "options"--they wear jerseys with names of actual human players. And when I am casually listening to the radio during the summer (as I have for 60 years or so), when I no longer recognize which team is at bat, why wouldn't I just turn on some music instead?

[notin]

Exactly. Bloom/Henry are more concerned with, say, 'making their mark' on a team than producing something that fans might actually want to follow. Now, to complete the plan, I assume Vaz and Boggaerts go for a few International league players, and Bloom will finally have created 'his' team.

 

It's really a shame the RS don't have the financial resources, and obviously don't have a strong enough fan base or a popular enough venue to be competitive.

 

Are you kidding?

 

So you don’t see the hypocrisy in including Henry? Fairly certain him and his 4 World Series rings count as “making his mark” on this franchise. Not to mention the several billion he’s spent on payroll over the years.

 

But they traded an outfielder coming off a season where he had a .442 OPS!! Clearly everyone must go!

[a700hitter]

It's really a shame the RS don't have the financial resources, and obviously don't have a strong enough fan base or a popular enough venue to be competitive.

if they go through a 3 year period of futility that we went through with Ben, this could be a self fulfilling prophecy. The three last place finishes under Ben would have caused lasting damage to the franchise had it not been for the Championship in the middle of all that failure.

 

Before Ben, the Red Sox had not marketed season tickets for many years. Many people dumped their tickets and opened up season ticket sales again. That is when I got my tickets. Bloom has the luxury of rebuilding during COVID so he isn’t losing ticket sales. However, he is destroying interest in the team. If fans disengage, you have a problem.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Exactly. Bloom/Henry are more concerned with, say, 'making their mark' on a team than producing something that fans might actually want to follow. Now, to complete the plan, I assume Vaz and Boggaerts go for a few International league players, and Bloom will finally have created 'his' team.

 

It's really a shame the RS don't have the financial resources, and obviously don't have a strong enough fan base or a popular enough venue to be competitive.

 

The question is: how much patience will current ownership give Bloom for his team to show improvement in the standings and therefore, the turnstiles. That the latter haven't spun in a year does provide an added grace period. It's worth noting, though, that this ownership hasn't shown much patience in the past 20 years, as Bloom is GM/Chief Officer #4...

[TylerD]

Sadness. I can’t wear his shirt anymore

[mvp 78]

So the RS have essentially cut ties with their past, getting rid of the majority of players that are part of that past. ALSO part of that past, however, are the thousands and thousands of fans who have supported them, in many cases, for decades. If our admittedly sentimental attachment to particular players doesn't count, then what does? When you see kids going to the ball-park, they don't spend their time studying dWAR or FanGraphs or "options"--they wear jerseys with names of actual human players. And when I am casually listening to the radio during the summer (as I have for 60 years or so), when I no longer recognize which team is at bat, why wouldn't I just turn on some music instead?

 

The first thing I asked my son this AM was "name a Red Sox baseball player." He said "Andrew Benintendi."

 

It's like the Seinfeld gag, you aren't rooting for players or a team, you are rooting for a uniform.

[mvp 78]

The question is: how much patience will current ownership give Bloom for his team to show improvement in the standings and therefore, the turnstiles. That the latter haven't spun in a year does provide an added grace period. It's worth noting, though, that this ownership hasn't shown much patience in the past 20 years, as Bloom is GM/Chief Officer #4...

 

I'm sure there's lots of leeway. You don't gut payroll with a former TB guy and expect to be the Dodgers the next year. Even another last place finish is probably not a concern to Henry as long as there is a plan to get the Sox back into contention year in and year out.

[mvp 78]

The problem is that Henry made a deal with the devil when he hired DD. He brought in DD for the ring, got the ring and got the baggage that goes along with it. When you line up Theo, Ben, DD and Bloom, the odd man out is DD. His roster construction is antithetical to how the Sox had been previously built.

[Bellhorn04]

The first thing I asked my son this AM was "name a Red Sox baseball player." He said "Andrew Benintendi."

 

It's like the Seinfeld gag, you aren't rooting for players or a team, you are rooting for a uniform.

 

Jerry took it a step further and said we're rooting for laundry LOL

 

Generally speaking, it's been that way for a long time now.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

When you see kids going to the ball-park, they don't spend their time studying dWAR or FanGraphs or "options"--they wear jerseys with names of actual human players.

 

What -- you haven't seen kids wearing the new jerseys, where the team lists Years Of Control in parenthesis under player names? I was just watching two kids trading baseball cards the other day, and one was celebrating he got an Ozzie Albies because he's under contract for five more years, with a team option or buyout in 2026!

[notin]

What -- you haven't seen kids wearing the new jerseys, where the team lists Years Of Control in parenthesis under player names? I was just watching two kids trading baseball cards the other day, and one was celebrating he got an Ozzie Albies because he's under contract for five more years, with a team option or buyout in 2026!

 

And when the team comes in last place with one of the highest payrolls in the league and everyone is losing interest, do the people footing the bills find consolation in how many people are wearing jerseys?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And when the team comes in last place with one of the highest payrolls in the league and everyone is losing interest, do the people footing the bills find consolation in how many people are wearing jerseys?

 

Hopefully, we won't find out again this year.

[notin]

if they go through a 3 year period of futility that we went through with Ben, this could be a self fulfilling prophecy. The three last place finishes under Ben would have caused lasting damage to the franchise had it not been for the Championship in the middle of all that failure.

 

Before Ben, the Red Sox had not marketed season tickets for many years. Many people dumped their tickets and opened up season ticket sales again. That is when I got my tickets. Bloom has the luxury of rebuilding during COVID so he isn’t losing ticket sales. However, he is destroying interest in the team. If fans disengage, you have a problem.

 

The Sox traded an outfielder in Benintendi who had a career OPS+ of 107 and acquired an outfielder in Renfroe with a career OPS+ of 106. And that is destroying the team?

 

Not to mention, in those two deals he also added another MLB outfielder and 4 prospects and did so without adding anything to the budget.

 

How again are these bad moves?

[notin]

Hopefully, we won't find out again this year.

 

If the Sox come in last this year, it will be due to massive injuries. Have you seen what Baltimore is trying to pass off as an MLB roster?

[moonslav59]

Some Sox fans might have reached the “He traded one guy so he’s clearly trading EVERYONE” mentality...

 

Well, in a sense, some may view us at a point where we're at the tail end stage of trading everyone away, if you count letting FS go.

 

Here are the PA & IP leaders of the 2018 team:

 

PA

661 Beni

649 JD

614 Betts

580 Bogey

535 JBJ

502 Nunez

490 Devers

459 Moreland

367 Holt

288 Leon

269 Vaz

207 Swihart

195 HRam

165 Pearce

143 Kinsler

73 Lin, 38 Travis, 27 Philips, 13 Pedey

 

IP

191 Porcello

176 Price

158 Sale (will not be on opening day roster)

130 ERod

99 Johnson

85 Velazquez

74 Pomeranz

66 Kelly

62 Kimbrel

62 Barnes (last year of control)

60 Hembree

54 Eovaldi

54 Wright

41 Workman

34 Brasier

24 Thornburg

22 Poyner, 17 Cuevas, 15 Walden, 14 C Smith