2021 Spring Training Discussion

[jad]

I guess I follow this. Given the Mookie situation, getting rid of perhaps the best hitter on the team for a AA reliever makes perfect sense.

[Bellhorn04]

As for the current state of the Sox and how it relates to JD Martinez going forward, any rebuilding GM would be counting down the days to wipe a contract of such a one-dimensional player off the books. There was a sense the Red Sox were hoping for him to opt-out even before hiring Bloom...

 

Sure, and they were probably hoping Price opted out too.

 

We've said it many times, these big contracts typically only pay off for the team in the first half of the deal, and then become burdens in the second half.

 

We all liked JDM's contract when we signed him. I still think it was a fine signing. Instrumental to the 2018 title.

 

I'm not one of those who wants to see him moved. I'd like to see him stay and rake.

 

But a lot of fans jump ship on a player the minute they think the guy is declining.

[Nick]

I think less.

 

Largely because 1) there will need to be an AL team that thinks they have some post-season chances but lack a DH, which is the easiest position to fill, 2) even with some subsidization, JD's contract is still pretty expensive, especially since he is not going to opt out after this season, and 3) as he is not opting out, and the Sox get Sale back in 2022, if JD is hitting well enough to be considered actual valuable trade bait, then why wouldn't they keep him in the plans for 2022?

 

His opt out options were last two years. He's on our payroll for two more years.

[Bellhorn04]

His opt out options were last two years. He's on our payroll for two more years.

 

That's what I thought too. But notin's right, he has an opt out after this year as well.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

We all liked JDM's contract when we signed him. I still think it was a fine signing. Instrumental to the 2018 title.

 

I'm not one of those who wants to see him moved. I'd like to see him stay and rake.

 

But a lot of fans jump ship on a player the minute they think the guy is declining.

 

It was a good signing, especially for what turned out to be half of what JD and his agent were seeking. My point was about how vital he may be this year, and how modern GMs -- not fans -- would want to move him. Martinez was, in effect, a replacement in the batting order missing since Papi retired. But he turned out to be a difference-maker; his home run in the first inning of the '18 postseason meant that those playoffs were going to be different than the Sox' previous two quick exits.

[notin]

Sure, and they were probably hoping Price opted out too.

 

We've said it many times, these big contracts typically only pay off for the team in the first half of the deal, and then become burdens in the second half.

 

We all liked JDM's contract when we signed him. I still think it was a fine signing. Instrumental to the 2018 title.

 

I'm not one of those who wants to see him moved. I'd like to see him stay and rake.

 

But a lot of fans jump ship on a player the minute they think the guy is declining.

 

What helped us like JDM's contract, too, was it fell far, far short of the $300million Boras was asking for. It felt like a bargain the team could win with and not an albatross that would eventually drag the entire team down...

[notin]

It was a good signing, especially for what turned out to be half of what JD and his agent were seeking. My point was about how vital he may be this year, and how modern GMs -- not fans -- would want to move him. Martinez was, in effect, a replacement in the batting order missing since Papi retired. But he turned out to be a difference-maker; his home run in the first inning of the '18 postseason meant that those playoffs were going to be different than the Sox' previous two quick exits.

 

Well, you are talking about one GM specifically, and one who hasn't had a real season with a full strength roster to work with yet. He's in his second season running the team, and has yet to get a single inning out of Sale.

 

If JDM bounces back this year, then why not keep him for 2022? We all know they are getting an ace-caliber starter back without spending a penny. Barring extensions, the team might lose ERod, Barnes and Ottavino. all of whom will need to be repalced. Why add DH to that mix as well? Especially if you have to tie up money by sending it with JDM?

 

If he does not bounce back, no one will want him unless the Sox pretty much pay the bulk of the fare. So why not hold on to him for one last season? At worst, he becomes a placeholder for Triston Casas, allowing the Sox to play those nasty service time games...

[Nick]

That's what I thought too. But notin's right, he has an opt out after this year as well.

 

may opt out of contract after both 2019 ($2.5M buyout) and 2020 seasons (no buyout)

 

2021 and 2022 seasons become mutual options if Martinez has a Lisfranc injury or complication to his right foot causing him to be:

1) on the disabled list for 60 days or more in previous season, or

2) on the disabled list for 10 days or more in the previous season and 120 days or more in the two previous seasons combined, or

3) on the disabled list at the end of the previous season and found not able to play at the start of the next season

 

Not a big deal to me.....but I just go by Cot's.....accountant's reference book.

 

The guy that runs the site is a good guy......I actually e-mailed him few years ago for a minor correction. He thanked me.

[notin]

may opt out of contract after both 2019 ($2.5M buyout) and 2020 seasons (no buyout)

 

2021 and 2022 seasons become mutual options if Martinez has a Lisfranc injury or complication to his right foot causing him to be:

1) on the disabled list for 60 days or more in previous season, or

2) on the disabled list for 10 days or more in the previous season and 120 days or more in the two previous seasons combined, or

3) on the disabled list at the end of the previous season and found not able to play at the start of the next season

 

Not a big deal to me.....but I just go by Cot's.....accountant's reference book.

 

The guy that runs the site is a good guy......I actually e-mailed him few years ago for a minor correction. He thanked me.

 

See and sportrac has a different variant. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/boston-red-sox/j.d.-martinez-8690/

 

 

I do not think it matters, since there is no way in Fresno he is opting out...

[Bellhorn04]

Whitlock is having a nice little spring.

 

If Pivetta and Whitlock contribute this year, that's a couple of feathers in Chaim's cap...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Well, you are talking about one GM specifically, and one who hasn't had a real season with a full strength roster to work with yet. He's in his second season running the team, and has yet to get a single inning out of Sale.

 

If JDM bounces back this year, then why not keep him for 2022? We all know they are getting an ace-caliber starter back without spending a penny. Barring extensions, the team might lose ERod, Barnes and Ottavino. all of whom will need to be repalced. Why add DH to that mix as well? Especially if you have to tie up money by sending it with JDM?

 

If he does not bounce back, no one will want him unless the Sox pretty much pay the bulk of the fare. So why not hold on to him for one last season? At worst, he becomes a placeholder for Triston Casas, allowing the Sox to play those nasty service time games...

 

I think most fans would keep JD, especially if he hits 30 home runs again and strikes out less than Renfroe or Dalbec. I also think most GMs will be trying to be as creative as possible in freeing up the roster spot and DH position as soon as they can.

[a700hitter]

Sure, and they were probably hoping Price opted out too.

 

We've said it many times, these big contracts typically only pay off for the team in the first half of the deal, and then become burdens in the second half.

 

We all liked JDM's contract when we signed him. I still think it was a fine signing. Instrumental to the 2018 title.

 

I'm not one of those who wants to see him moved. I'd like to see him stay and rake.

 

But a lot of fans jump ship on a player the minute they think the guy is declining.

Overpaid players don’t opt out.

[Bellhorn04]

Overpaid players don’t opt out.

 

And the ones who do opt out often get overpaid in the next contract. Like Sabathia did.

[jacksonianmarch]

And the ones who do opt out often get overpaid in the next contract. Like Sabathia did.

 

ARod too. The opt outs are there to give the player freedom and security. An opt out is a huge problem for the team but I expect it will become far more standard as the years go by

[Nick]

Whitlock is having a nice little spring.

 

If Pivetta and Whitlock contribute this year, that's a couple of feathers in Chaim's cap...

 

Garrett Whitlock a lock for Boston Red Sox roster after posting 1.00 ERA in 9 spring innings: ‘We have a good one,’ Alex Cora says

 

Speaking of team control coup, Whitlock's six year service starts in couple of weeks.....3 years at less than $3M....accountants approve...I didn't realize he could be a starter

material in future...

Edited March 20, 2021 by Nick

[jacksonianmarch]

I always liked Whitlock. Projects more as a swing guy, but he will be your multi inning reliever

[oldtimer]

Well, you are talking about one GM specifically, and one who hasn't had a real season with a full strength roster to work with yet. He's in his second season running the team, and has yet to get a single inning out of Sale.

 

If JDM bounces back this year, then why not keep him for 2022? We all know they are getting an ace-caliber starter back without spending a penny. Barring extensions, the team might lose ERod, Barnes and Ottavino. all of whom will need to be repalced. Why add DH to that mix as well? Especially if you have to tie up money by sending it with JDM?

 

If he does not bounce back, no one will want him unless the Sox pretty much pay the bulk of the fare. So why not hold on to him for one last season? At worst, he becomes a placeholder for Triston Casas, allowing the Sox to play those nasty service time games...

 

The JDM situation may be one of the most important in determining how the Sox fare competitively in 2021 and 2022. What you say is true, if he has a solid year and helps the club then we need to keep him as it is unlikely that another club would step up at his pay level for 2022. If his season is a bust no one will want him and he will be with us through 2022 with his salary holding the club back. My guess is he will have a decent year but with diminished HR output.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The JDM situation may be one of the most important in determining how the Sox fare competitively in 2021 and 2022. What you say is true, if he has a solid year and helps the club then we need to keep him as it is unlikely that another club would step up at his pay level for 2022. If his season is a bust no one will want him and he will be with us through 2022 with his salary holding the club back. My guess is he will have a decent year but with diminished HR output.

 

I'm rooting for him. But not because of payroll. A dangerous, middle-of-the-order bat that wears down pitchers has such a positive effect on the batters hitting before and after him in the line-up. We think younger players like Devers, Verdugo and Bogaerts will be good; we can only hope JD will be, too...

[Kimmi]

Garrett Whitlock a lock for Boston Red Sox roster after posting 1.00 ERA in 9 spring innings: ‘We have a good one,’ Alex Cora says

 

Speaking of team control coup, Whitlock's six year service starts in couple of weeks.....3 years at less than $3M....accountants approve...I didn't realize he could be a starter

material in future...

 

Math teachers also approve.

 

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I think our pitching staff, both starting and relieving, is coming together pretty nicely. If they can stay healthy, which is a big if, they should be solid. I'm not talking about a lights out staff, but solid. They should be good enough to give our offense the chance to win a lot of games. Our depth looks so much better than it did last year.

[notin]

Math teachers also approve.

 

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I think our pitching staff, both starting and relieving, is coming together pretty nicely. If they can stay healthy, which is a big if, they should be solid. I'm not talking about a lights out staff, but solid. They should be good enough to give our offense the chance to win a lot of games. Our depth looks so much better than it did last year.

 

I like our staff now that it’s been Weber-Free since 2020...

[jacksonianmarch]

Lol, yep, your staff is gonna be a world beater.

[notin]

Lol, yep, your staff is gonna be a world beater.

 

Does your trash talk earn you syndication money? It’s the same repeats every year.

 

It might be better but the Yankees just refuse to back you up...

[Bellhorn04]

Lol, yep, your staff is gonna be a world beater.

 

I'll bet you miss Slasher being here.

[Nick]

Lol, yep, your staff is gonna be a world beater.

 

Can you just give us a little? We're trying to rebuild.

 

My team just got knocked out of NCAA after a very successful season.

 

Talk about feeling empty. You know the feeling.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Nick

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

We all know we shouldn't overrate the Red Sox' strong start in Florida... I mean, come on? Second in the Grapefruit League in wins... behind only the great Yankees! Now that pitching staff -- man, New York is gonna be lights out all season.

 

Wait, you mean Spring Training stats don't mean anything for ANY TEAM?

[jacksonianmarch]

ST stats are meaningless. For pitchers, I care about stuff. For hitters, it’s far more difficult. Thus far, the stuff for the Yanks starters has been stupid good. Hopefully it translates. For the Sox, we know who they are. For the Yanks, we know who they were and the biggest ?? is whether they can replicate their pasts

[Elktonnick]

I'm rooting for him. But not because of payroll. A dangerous, middle-of-the-order bat that wears down pitchers has such a positive effect on the batters hitting before and after him in the line-up. We think younger players like Devers, Verdugo and Bogaerts will be good; we can only hope JD will be, too...

 

For what it is worth, JDM isn't having a particularly good ST thus far.

[Larry Cook]

For what it is worth, JDM isn't having a particularly good ST thus far.

 

His bat speed looks ok, but his timing is way off.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

For what it is worth, JDM isn't having a particularly good ST thus far.

 

I've said it a few times. My concern is that I haven't seen any adjustments to the same pitches he keeps getting that have plagued him in the recent past. That doesn't mean he's not trying to adjust... most likely something is holding him back: muscular, skeletal, deteriorating vision -- veteran pros don't suddenly forget how to be good. But we'll never know, because employers and employees are smart enough to keep such info private so opponents won't exploit them even more.

[oldtimer]

For what it is worth, JDM isn't having a particularly good ST thus far.

 

So far, no HRs and few extra base hits.