Red Sox Sign Enrique Hernandez

[a700hitter]

I think most fans want a big name signing. As I've posted before, if they are looking for Dombrowski type moves this year, they are going to be disappointed.

 

Kike offers not only a solution to who plays 2B, but he also provides depth at other positions.

 

My preference is still to not trade Beni. In fact, I would like to add another OFer to the mix. But having Kike would make it a little easier to trade him if the right deal comes along.

i think Kike is the other CF. I don’t think there will be another defensive CFer picked up.

[notin]

I will be more disappointed if Semien goes for around the same price.

 

So will Semien's agent...

[jad]

So let me understand: there are those here arguing that a guy marginally better than Holt is worth 10x his salary? But super-stars are simply a luxury Boston cannot afford?

[notin]

I will be more disappointed if Semien goes for around the same price.

 

Probably worth noting that per Chris Cotillo, Semien prefers “to sign as a shortstop.”

 

If he does get less or equal money, it’s probably not from somewhere where he will be playing another position. And it would likely be a last minute deal.

 

But this would put Bloom in the unwinnable position of having not waited long enough to make moves in order to appease a fan base that has spent most of the off-season complaining about his waiting to make moves...

[a700hitter]

So will Semien's agent...

Semien is competing with Andrelton Simmons and Didi Gregorius. I don’t think that will help his market.

[notin]

So let me understand: there are those here arguing that a guy marginally better than Holt is worth 10x his salary? But super-stars are simply a luxury Boston cannot afford?

 

Ten times his salary? Holt made $2.5 mill last year. Some sites list his 2021 salary at $750,000, but this is misleading. It’s not his salary, but Milwaukee’s buyout of a $5mill option.

 

Brock Holt, at 3 years older, is not going to be as cheap as you think...

[Bellhorn04]

So let me understand: there are those here arguing that a guy marginally better than Holt is worth 10x his salary? But super-stars are simply a luxury Boston cannot afford?

 

So let me understand: you're trying to make a connection between willing to pay Enrique Hernandez $14 million, and not being willing to pay Mookie Betts $400 million?

[notin]

Semien is competing with Andrelton Simmons and Didi Gregorius. I don’t think that will help his market.

 

And neither will signing a one year deal that puts him in next year free agent class of shortstops. But if he wants to play SS, then Boston was not a great option. The Dodgers were reportedly asking him about 3b, but he did not sign there.

 

His position demands might change over time. But we shall see. Philadelphia and Cincinnati both are in the SS market, and possibly the Yankees, too. So there might be enough chairs none of the three are left standing...

[a700hitter]

Ten times his salary? Holt made $2.5 mill last year. Some sites list his 2021 salary at $750,000, but this is misleading. It’s not his salary, but Milwaukee’s buyout of a $5mill option.

 

Brock Holt, at 3 years older, is not going to be as cheap as you think...

Realistically, Holt will get about one-quarter of what we signed Kike for 1 year.

[dgalehouse]

I don't have a problem with this move. While not what you would call a game changer, Hernandez is a versatile player who adds a little right handed pop to the lineup. That should play well at Fenway.

[mvp 78]

I think Kike is a nice addition. Maybe he's a little costlier than we would have liked, but it's a very short term deal, which is key. Kike's versatility was surely a huge factor. And we needed some help defensively.

 

I would still like to add a defensive CFer, but I am more comfortable with out OF situation now than I was before.

 

A starting pitcher is coming.

 

What I’m hoping for. ^^^^^^

[mvp 78]

a $12 million upgrade? I don’t think so. I would have rather redeployed some of that money to other needs. It’s an overpay IMO.

 

It is an overpay. He has a better chance of playing well than Brock. We’ll see how it goes.

[notin]

I don't have a problem with this move. While not what you would call a game changer, Hernandez is a versatile player who adds a little right handed pop to the lineup. That should play well at Fenway.

 

I also think his versatility makes him a fit in 2022 if Downs takes over 2b...

[notin]

Realistically, Holt will get about one-quarter of what we signed Kike for 1 year.

 

I’m more on board with a quarter than 10 times.

 

But will Holt do as well and at what point is the savings worth it? It’s not like the difference between the two would be enough to sign Ozuna...

[a700hitter]

I’m more on board with a quarter than 10 times.

 

But will Holt do as well and at what point is the savings worth it? It’s not like the difference between the two would be enough to sign Ozuna...

I think 10 times was hyperbole. We will not get Ozuna for the $12 million, but the extra $12 million could help landing a pitcher or Ozuna when added to the remaining budget.

[jad]

So let me understand: you're trying to make a connection between willing to pay Enrique Hernandez $14 million, and not being willing to pay Mookie Betts $400 million?

 

After long and deep reflection ... yes.

 

Because essentially, when I fire up a RS broadcast ... Curt Gowdy still does the radio, right? ... I want to hear about players I know and have followed. I don't feel any connection with a team run like a Fantasy Sports team, where players are not human beings but rather abstractions (a complex of statistics) who are basically interchangeable ... that is, the FLorida model, which Bloom represents. Of course I'd rather watch Brock Holt, or Mookie or JBJ than three players I've never heard of who are claimed ? to be better dollar values. (And given the attendance figures from Florida, I believe there are lots of fans who agree with me.)

 

In all fairness, those of you who study league and player statistics closely might not feel this, since you actually do 'know' those players in some sense. But the ordinary fan, who does not spend the time we do on this board, but who does occasionally throw down a few hundred bucks a year on tix, likely does not.

Edited January 23, 2021 by jad

[notin]

I think 10 times was hyperbole. We will not get Ozuna for the $12 million, but the extra $12 million could help landing a pitcher or Ozuna when added to the remaining budget.

 

Extra $12 mil?

 

The deal only counts as $7mill AAV towards the tax limit, which is what matters. And that will drop more depending on how much is deferred.

[Bellhorn04]

Of course I'd rather watch Brock Holt, or Mookie or JBJ than three players I've never heard of who are claimed ? to be better dollar values.

 

Sure, but nobody knew who Brock Holt was when we traded for him.

 

And Kike Hernandez is hardly a non-entity, having played in 58 postseason games with the Dodgers over the last 6 years.

[notin]

Sure, but nobody knew who Brock Holt was when we traded for him.

 

And Kike Hernandez is hardly a non-entity, having played in 58 postseason games with the Dodgers over the last 6 years.

 

Including a 3 HR game in the postseason against the Cubs...

[a700hitter]

Extra $12 mil?

 

The deal only counts as $7mill AAV towards the tax limit, which is what matters. And that will drop more depending on how much is deferred.

Yes, $12 million after a $2 million 1 year deal for Holt. That’s how I do math. Edited January 23, 2021 by a700hitter

[a700hitter]

Including a 3 HR game in the postseason against the Cubs...

And Holt hit for the Cycle against the Yankees in the postseason.

[moonslav59]

Hernandez actually played a lot the last few seasons.

 

Most games played by a Dodger since 2017:

 

506 Bellinger

475 Taylor

463 Hernandez

442 Pederson

410 Turner

 

(He placed 6th in PAs)

 

How about more recently? (2019-2020)

 

Hernandez placed 6th in games played (178) and 7th in PAs (608)with the Dodgers.

 

In Holt's peak time with the Sox (2014-2018) he placed:

 

Games

741 Bogey

644 Betts

634 JBJ

502 Holt

490 Pedey

439 Ortiz

429 HRam

 

He placed 5th in PAs at 1856.

 

[moonslav59]

It is an overpay. He has a better chance of playing well than Brock. We’ll see how it goes.

 

Plus, Holt was never viewed as someone you'd want to be your FT anything.

 

Kike can be viewed as a FT 2Bman or CF'er for us.

 

[harmony]

Including a 3 HR game in the postseason against the Cubs...

Enrique Hernandez, who posted 3.2 fWAR and 3.3 bWAR in 2018, stroked a two-run homer off Red Sox reliever Craig Kimbrel in the ninth inning of Game 4 of the 2018 World Series:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN201810270.shtml

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by harmony

[moonslav59]

Holt: 91 OPS+

Kiké: 98 OPS+

 

Kiké is an upgrade over Brock Holt.

 

How about defesne?

 

UZR/150

 

2B

+0.4 Holt (1784 innings)

-6.2 Hernandez (1263)

 

CF

+8.4 Hernandez (1109) This is JBJ territory!

-17.5 Holt (76 innings)

 

SS

+10.4 Hernandez (536)

+5.2 Holt (398)

 

3B

-6.3 Holt (1030)

-28.4 Hernandez (155)

 

OF

+12.0 Hernandez (2054)

+2.0 Holt (1465)

 

1B

+17.4 Hernandez (89)

-4.0 Holt (224)

 

DRS

 

OF

+21 Hernandez (2055 innings)

+16 Holt (1465)

 

2B

+18 Hernandez (1263)

+1 Holt (1784)

[jad]

Sure, but nobody knew who Brock Holt was when we traded for him.

 

And Kike Hernandez is hardly a non-entity, having played in 58 postseason games with the Dodgers over the last 6 years.

 

I really hope you're right (although you inadvertently promoted the argument here: Don't worry; Hernandez could be the next Brock Freaking Holt!)

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Plus, Holt was never viewed as someone you'd want to be your FT anything.

 

Kike can be viewed as a FT 2Bman or CF'er for us.

 

 

EHern was good enough to start at both second base and centerfield in World Series games the past few years for LA.

[a700hitter]

Plus, Holt was never viewed as someone you'd want to be your FT anything.

 

Kike can be viewed as a FT 2Bman or CF'er for us.

 

Kike has never been a full time anything either.

[moonslav59]

Kike has never been a full time anything either.

 

No, but that wasn't my point.

[Kimmi]

The criticism is that while Hernandez can play a lot of positions, he cannot pitch. And that is the Sox biggest need.

 

 

I don't mind the move. Hernandez was not my top choice for 2B, but he was on my list. But I would like to the Sox sign a starting pitcher, which would bump Tanner Houck or (better yet) Nathan Eovaldi back into the bullpen, thus fixing two holes at once. And I prefer that SP not be named Garrett Richards, as he will in time just create another hole no matter how he is used....

 

Of course the Sox need pitching. Signing Hernandez does not affect the plans to sign a pitcher.