Who should the Sox have play CF on opening day?

[moonslav59]

I'm more OK with Sawamura, dspite his being a compelte mystery to me. At least he was brought in to address pitching.

 

Gonzalez is just a bench bat. Is he really even any better than Yairo Munoz?

 

JBJ would likely just cost $3M more than Marwin on the 2021 tax line.

 

Yes, I can see Munoz being better than Marwin, as well as Chavis and Arroyo.

 

2018-2020

.733 Munoz (555 PAs)

.728 Chavis (540)

.719 Arroyo (170)

.713 Marwin (1214)

 

[moonslav59]

I'm totally OK with it. AAV of $1.5 million. Why would anyone not be OK with it?

 

I was thinking Sawamura got $3M x 2 not $3M/2. My bad.

 

[moonslav59]

If they are close to contention, why would they be sellers unless the return was really good? I don't think a trade of Barnes moves the meter either way.

 

If they are good, holding onto ERod for the rest of the season doesn't ruin your outlook. I wouldn't start dumping a bunch of prospects to get a reliever. I don't think they'd do that anyway.

 

If we are over the tax line at the deadline and have to decide to stay over or get under, they may decide to become buyers. I don't mean trading promising prospects for RP'ers, but they could get salary dump players for next to nothing. The extra 2021 tax would be slkight as their contracts would be pro-rated, and being over the line by $1M or $19M doesn't change the reset clock.

 

My point is that if we look to be WC contenders but not ring contenders, I'd hope we'd become a seller not a buyer, but that would be hard for fans to swallow. Harder than not signing JBJ, now.

[mvp 78]

Yes.

 

How much of Marwin's offensice track record was helped out by garbage can thumping? Since leaving Houston, his OPS+ is 87. Munoz' is 98.

 

So yes, Munoz could leap him this year, if you don't think he already has.

 

Now as a switch hitter, Gonzalez does provide a LHH bat for the bench, which some talking heads have called a need for this team. In that regard, as little faith as I have in Marwin, I will concede hit hits left-handed better than Munoz probably would...

 

Marwin 2017:

 

881 Home OPS

932 Away OPS

[mvp 78]

And I do think Munoz has a place on this team, whereas Chavis does not.

[mvp 78]

If we are over the tax line at the deadline and have to decide to stay over or get under, they may decide to become buyers. I don't mean trading promising prospects for RP'ers, but they could get salary dump players for next to nothing. The extra 2021 tax would be slkight as their contracts would be pro-rated, and being over the line by $1M or $19M doesn't change the reset clock.

 

My point is that if we look to be WC contenders but not ring contenders, I'd hope we'd become a seller not a buyer, but that would be hard for fans to swallow. Harder than not signing JBJ, now.

 

If they become sellers, who would they deal aside from ERod and Barnes?

[moonslav59]

And I do think Munoz has a place on this team, whereas Chavis does not.

 

Chavis deserves one last look, but I agree.

[moonslav59]

If they become sellers, who would they deal aside from ERod and Barnes?

 

Ottavino is a FA after this year, too. Marwin, as well.

 

I'd look at the FAs after 2022 class and maybe trade someone who does not look to be part of the longer term (no interest in extending or who looks to be declining).

 

FAs after 2022

JD

Eovaldi

Richards (2022 option)

Vaz (2022 option)

EHern

Perez (2022 option)

 

I'm not saying "firesale," but maybe just enough to get under the tax line and set the reset clock ahead another year.

 

[mvp 78]

Chavis deserves one last look, but I agree.

 

I prefer Munoz only because of his athleticism and ability to play multiple positions. Chavis doesn't impress me in the field.

[mvp 78]

Ottavino is a FA after this year, too. Marwin, as well.

 

I'd look at the FAs after 2022 class and maybe trade someone who does not look to be part of the longer term (no interest in extending or who looks to be declining).

 

FAs after 2022

JD

Eovaldi

Richards (2022 option)

Vaz (2022 option)

EHern

Perez (2022 option)

 

I'm not saying "firesale," but maybe just enough to get under the tax line and set the reset clock ahead another year.

 

 

If they are 5 games out and things aren't going great with Sale, you probably deal whatever isn't nailed down. If Sale is pitching again and the Sox are starting to turn it around, they should roll the dice and stick it out.

[mvp 78]

@ChrisCotillo

J.D. Martinez said Jackie Bradley Jr. told him he has a couple offers and is waiting for a team to "take the next step" so he can sign.

[moonslav59]

I prefer Munoz only because of his athleticism and ability to play multiple positions. Chavis doesn't impress me in the field.

 

I've never been impressed with Chavis, but I do think he needs one more look. If he fails, this year, trade or DFA him and add Munoz to the 40 man roster.

[moonslav59]

@ChrisCotillo

J.D. Martinez said Jackie Bradley Jr. told him he has a couple offers and is waiting for a team to "take the next step" so he can sign.

 

Next step= up offer?

[mvp 78]

Next step= up offer?

 

Maybe finalize an offer? Add a year? IDK.

[Elktonnick]

That was my thinking. Seems like 2/12 makes sense. We also don't know if JBJ has turned down other offers or what else has been on the table. Seems like 2/12 would be far below his asking price. Also, it's cheap enough dollars where it doesn't really impact the team much if Duran/Francy/Verdugo become the opening day starters next season.

 

Ballplayers today are mercenaries. They go where they can get the best money. It is quite obvious that JBJ's market is not where he thought it would be. The red sox if they decide to sign JBJ should do so at his market price. I just don't think JBJ's market is at 12 for 2. Maybe it should be higher but I do not think it is. If the Red Sox are the only bidders then of course they shouldn't bid against themselves. If they can get him for less than 6 for one year then they should do so. JBJ would not hesitate to sign with another club for more money if he could. To me a ballplayer's value is determined by his market value.

[moonslav59]

Ballplayers today are mercenaries. They go where they can get the best money. It is quite obvious that JBJ's market is not where he thought it would be. The red sox if they decide to sign JBJ should do so at his market price. I just don't think JBJ's market is at 12 for 2. Maybe it should be higher but I do not think it is. If the Red Sox are the only bidders then of course they shouldn't bid against themselves. If they can get him for less than 6 for one year then they should do so. JBJ would not hesitate to sign with another club for more money if he could. To me a ballplayer's value is determined by his market value.

 

Maybe his mindset is influenced by the fact that we paid him $11M, last year when we didn't have to. Going from $11M/1 to $6M x 2 seems steep, but I agree, The market is what sets the price- not the player or agent.

 

He's not going to sit out 2021, so what's the top offer, right now?

 

If it's $6M/1 or $10M/2, I'd be on the fence.

 

(I never expected it would come close to this, especially after seeing what Pillar got ($5M).

[Elktonnick]

Maybe his mindset is influenced by the fact that we paid him $11M, last year when we didn't have to. Going from $11M/1 to $6M x 2 seems steep, but I agree, The market is what sets the price- not the player or agent.

 

He's not going to sit out 2021, so what's the top offer, right now?

 

If it's $6M/1 or $10M/2, I'd be on the fence.

 

(I never expected it would come close to this, especially after seeing what Pillar got ($5M).

 

I certainly agree. The bigger point is that Boston because of the media hype always over valued JBJ compared to the rest of baseball.

[mvp 78]

Maybe his mindset is influenced by the fact that we paid him $11M, last year when we didn't have to. Going from $11M/1 to $6M x 2 seems steep, but I agree, The market is what sets the price- not the player or agent.

 

He's not going to sit out 2021, so what's the top offer, right now?

 

If it's $6M/1 or $10M/2, I'd be on the fence.

 

(I never expected it would come close to this, especially after seeing what Pillar got ($5M).

 

Should have nontendered him last year!

[mvp 78]

I certainly agree. The bigger point is that Boston because of the media hype always over valued JBJ compared to the rest of baseball.

 

But the Stros and Mets were seen as bigger suitors. What happened?

[harmony]

Maybe his mindset is influenced by the fact that we paid him $11M, last year when we didn't have to. Going from $11M/1 to $6M x 2 seems steep, but I agree, The market is what sets the price- not the player or agent.

Just as the front office does not set the price.

[moonslav59]

I certainly agree. The bigger point is that Boston because of the media hype always over valued JBJ compared to the rest of baseball.

 

They were tough on him, at times, as well.

 

Early on, the hype was very high.

[Bellhorn04]

Should have nontendered him last year!

 

Hahaha. I don't care that much either way, but it turned out to be not of much significance, especially with the pro-rating. For reasons only he knows, Bloom gave JBJ some very favorable treatment last year, including not trading him at the deadline.

[Bellhorn04]

Just as the front office does not set the price.

 

They do sometimes. Haven't you heard about all the needless overpays and bidding against themselves GM's do?

[moonslav59]

Hahaha. I don't care that much either way, but it turned out to be not of much significance, especially with the pro-rating. For reasons only he knows, Bloom gave JBJ some very favorable treatment last year, including not trading him at the deadline.

 

Wonder what the best offer was.

[harmony]

Hahaha. I don't care that much either way, but it turned out to be not of much significance, especially with the pro-rating. For reasons only he knows, Bloom gave JBJ some very favorable treatment last year, including not trading him at the deadline.

Was it a favor to Jackie Bradley Jr. to be stuck on a team out of the race with a 12-22 record?

[mvp 78]

Hahaha. I don't care that much either way, but it turned out to be not of much significance, especially with the pro-rating. For reasons only he knows, Bloom gave JBJ some very favorable treatment last year, including not trading him at the deadline.

 

Hoping for a discount in 2021?

[Elktonnick]

But the Stros and Mets were seen as bigger suitors. What happened?

 

You will have to ask them!

[mvp 78]

You will have to ask them!

 

They ghosted me.

[harmony]

It's not too late.

 

J.D. Martinez signed on February 26 three years ago.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martijd02.shtml#all_transactions_other

[notin]

Was it a favor to Jackie Bradley Jr. to be stuck on a team out of the race with a 12-22 record?

 

... and to pay him $11 million for it? Do not forget that part...