Who should the Sox have play CF on opening day?

[moonslav59]

No, it's Xander.

 

If Sale wasn't hurt, I'd say he was, but it's close.

 

Some might say JD is the "leader," but I wouldn't say "franchise" for him.

 

Devers is just coming into his own, and I could see him becoming the franchise player as soon as this year.

 

I have no issue calling Bogey the franchise player, but I don't think he is clearly "the man," and he wasn't that guy, when we had Betts.

 

If this was football, and I had to slap a franchise tag on a player, it would be Devers, but that's not really a good way to look at it.

[Bellhorn04]

It's all just for funsies anyway.

[mvp 78]

If Sale wasn't hurt, I'd say he was, but it's close.

 

Some might say JD is the "leader," but I wouldn't say "franchise" for him.

 

Devers is just coming into his own, and I could see him becoming the franchise player as soon as this year.

 

I have no issue calling Bogey the franchise player, but I don't think he is clearly "the man," and he wasn't that guy, when we had Betts.

 

If this was football, and I had to slap a franchise tag on a player, it would be Devers, but that's not really a good way to look at it.

 

Nobody would say it's JD. On and Off the field, it's Xander and it's by a wide margin.

 

Just because you're the "best player" doesn't make you the face of the franchise. I think a good argument could be made that Pedroia was the face of the franchise from 2011 - 2017 even though Papi had the bigger moments..

[moonslav59]

Nobody would say it's JD. On and Off the field, it's Xander and it's by a wide margin.

 

Just because you're the "best player" doesn't make you the face of the franchise. I think a good argument could be made that Pedroia was the face of the franchise from 2011 - 2017 even though Papi had the bigger moments..

 

So who was the franchise player? Pedey or Papi? One could even argue VTek or Pedro.

 

I guess I don't see it as a "wide margin," but I can see how many would see it that way.

 

He plays everyday, unlike Sale- even when not injured.

 

I'll ask you this, is it possible Devers wins the title in the next year or two, assuming both are still here in 2022 and/or beyond?

[Bellhorn04]

Nobody would say it's JD. On and Off the field, it's Xander and it's by a wide margin.

 

Just because you're the "best player" doesn't make you the face of the franchise. I think a good argument could be made that Pedroia was the face of the franchise from 2011 - 2017 even though Papi had the bigger moments..

 

In my books, it would be Xander except for one thing: that damn opt-out hanging over our heads.

[mvp 78]

So who was the franchise player? Pedey or Papi? One could even argue VTek or Pedro.

 

I guess I don't see it as a "wide margin," but I can see how many would see it that way.

 

He plays everyday, unlike Sale- even when not injured.

 

I'll ask you this, is it possible Devers wins the title in the next year or two, assuming both are still here in 2022 and/or beyond?

 

Clemens 86 - 96

Nomar 97 - 98

Pedro 99 - 04

Papi/Manny 05 - 08

Youk 09 - 10

Pedroia 11 - 17

Betts 18 - 19

Xander 20 - present

[mvp 78]

In my books, it would be Xander except for one thing: that damn opt-out hanging over our heads.

 

I think only us weirdos are worrying about it. Most Sox fans probably don't even know it exists.

[moonslav59]

Clemens 86 - 96

Nomar 97 - 98

Pedro 99 - 04

Papi/Manny 05 - 08

Youk 09 - 10

Pedroia 11 - 17

Betts 18 - 19

Xander 20 - present

 

I'd put it this way, and I go back farther (First name- my choice):

 

???>1974 Yaz

1975-1977 Yaz/Lynn/Burleson/Tiant (Fisk?)

1978-1979 Lynn/Burleson/Fisk/Rice/Evans

1980 Lynn/Rice/Fisk/Burleson/Evans

1981-1982 Rice/Evans

1983-1985 Boggs/Evans/Rice

1986-1991 Clemens (Boggs/Evans)

1992-1993 Clemens

1994-1996 Clemens (Valentin/Vaughn)

1997 Nomar

1998 Pedro-Nomar

1999-2003 Pedro

2004 Pedro (Ortiz/Schilling)

2005-2006 Ortiz (Manny)

2007 Ortiz (Beckett/Manny)

2008 Ortiz-Pedey (Manny/Youk)

2009-2010 Ortiz-Pedey (Youk)

2011 Pedey/Youk (Ortiz-Beltre-Lester)

2012 Pedey/Ortiz

2013 Ortiz (Boston Strong)- Pedey

2014-2015 Pedey/Ortiz

2016 Pedey/Ortiz (Betts/Bogey)

2017 Betts-Sale (Pedey/Bogey)

2018 Betts (Sale)

2019 Betts (Bogey/Devers)

2020 Bogey (Devers/Verdugo/Sale)

 

2021 Bogey-Devers-Verdugo-Sale

[Bellhorn04]

(Attempted notin impression)

 

So just a listing of best players, then...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Speaking of Face of the Franchise on a literal level: after Game Seven of the '04 ALCS, someone snuck around NYC and spray-painted a silhouette of Damon all over town.

[mvp 78]

(Attempted notin impression)

 

So just a listing of best players, then...

 

Here's my 5 faces of the franchise for '93:

 

Clemens/Cooper/Vaughn/Pena/Greenwell

 

Moon's list is Greenwell erasure. Prove me wrong.

[Bellhorn04]

Here's my 5 faces of the franchise for '93:

 

Clemens/Cooper/Vaughn/Pena/Greenwell

 

Moon's list is Greenwell erasure. Prove me wrong.

 

You fellas appear to have even more free time than me.

[moonslav59]

Here's my 5 faces of the franchise for '93:

 

Clemens/Cooper/Vaughn/Pena/Greenwell

 

Moon's list is Greenwell erasure. Prove me wrong.

 

Greenwell was never close to being "the face."

[moonslav59]

(Attempted notin impression)

 

So just a listing of best players, then...

 

Some years, there was just no clear cut "franchise player" or "face of the franchise."

 

Maybe cause we sucked and had no super stud- maybe because we had 2-3.

 

Players I listed in parenthesis were meant as close but not really in the mix. (I meant to explain the way I listed them.

 

Players like "Lynn/Rice/Burleson/Evans" all could be viewed as "the face," but the first one listed was my choice.

 

I listed multiple names so maybe others could remember back and say, "No, I'd say this guy was "the man."

[Bellhorn04]

Greenwell was never close to being "the face."

 

Fighting words. Excellent!

[moonslav59]

Fighting words. Excellent!

 

My ex brother-in-law had a great nickname for Mikey:

 

"I'll pock the ball up when it stops rolling" Greenwell. (He agree with me on Mike's horrific defense.)

 

What bugged me most about his defense was how he'd run back to the wall, slow down, then leap and crash into the wall- usually dropping the ball, instead of running quickly to get to the wall, stopping and then jumping straight up, thereby not having the crashing into the wall dislodging the ball from his glove. He never learned this. He also never learned to catch a high easy flyball while positioning himself for a good throw- although he wasn't bad at throwing out runners.

[moonslav59]

Fighting words. Excellent!

 

The guy could hit. End of story. Period.

[mvp 78]

Greenwell was never close to being "the face."

 

Closer than Valentin ever was.

[moonslav59]

Closer than Valentin ever was.

 

Got me.

 

I surrender.

[mvp 78]

Got me.

 

I surrender.

 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/505388389408044517/

 

This poster just proves my point.

[notin]

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/505388389408044517/

 

This poster just proves my point.

 

Ah but did Greenwwell ever get a movie role based on his hillbilly background?

 

 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1684927/characters/nm1309453?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t2

[mvp 78]

Ah but did Greenwwell ever get a movie role based on his hillbilly background?

 

 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1684927/characters/nm1309453?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t2

 

The original Boggs died after hitting his head on a table when trying to get some cowboy boots on. He was replaced with a clone.

[mvp 78]

MARGO ADAMS, THROWING HER CURVES

By Howard KurtzMarch 2, 1989

 

NEW YORK, MARCH 1 -- "Margo, over here!" "Margo, look over your left shoulder!" "How about crossing your legs, Margo?" Move over, Jessica Hahn. Hit the road, Donna Rice. Amid a battery of popping flashbulbs, Margo Adams, the former paramour of Boston Red Sox star Wade Boggs, made her public debut today at the Broadway offices of Penthouse magazine, for which she has just told all (and, in next month's issue, bares all). Appearing in the magazine's "Bimbo Room," so nicknamed for previous media sensations who have slept with rich and famous men, the dark-haired Adams, dressed in a pink polka-dot blouse and skirt that perfectly matched her fingernails, displayed a bright, bubbly style as she recounted her tales of locker room lust. Adams, for those with only a passing interest in either baseball or sex, burst into public view last summer with a $12 million lawsuit against Boggs, Boston's five-time batting champion. The suit was recently reduced to $500,000 when a California court ruled that Adams could not sue Boggs for emotional distress. Last weekend Boggs declared himself "ecstatic" over his partial victory in the lawsuit. "One thing has to be put in perspective," he said. "I did not commit a crime. It's not like I did drugs, or shot someone, or ended up in prison. You know, there are a lot of red-blooded American males out there ..." Today, the microphone belonged to Adams. And since this was an audience of grizzled sportswriters, the questions, as you would expect, were serious. "Where is the wildest place you've ever had sex?" one asked. Adams, 33, paused a beat and flashed a winning smile. "I know you'd just love me to say 'on the mound at the ballpark,' " she said. "And I'm not saying I would have said no. I think the wildest place we ever had sex was probably on the bathroom counter, and if that disappoints you, I'm sorry." Margo Adams did not disappoint her audience today. "What the hell, this is better than talking to Dwight Evans about his swing," a Boston Globe sportswriter declared. Adams says she made 64 road trips with the third baseman since the 1984 season, unbeknown to Boggs' wife Debbie and their two children. Adams says Boggs paid her $60,000 to $100,000 a year to be his companion. Among other things, she would buy and iron his clothes, since his sartorial taste was "kind of yucky." Through four seasons, Boggs would send her flowers and champagne and initiate erotic conversations over the phone, Adams said. She would serve him double-anchovy pizzas wearing a garter belt and stockings. But when the couple split up last year -- in part, Adams says, because she learned he was seeing other women -- Adams asked Boggs for $100,000 as a sort of severance payment. She had, after all, quit her job as an Anaheim, Calif., mortgage banker to tour the American League with him. Boggs at first denied the relationship and asked the FBI to investigate what he called an attempt at extortion. Adams went to court. The affair, which had been conducted in full view of Boggs' teammates, suddenly hit the sports pages. In the Penthouse piece, for which Adams was paid $100,000 -- a sum that could rise to $500,000 if the issue sells well -- Adams takes partial credit for Boggs' .356 career average, saying he hit better when she traveled with him. Sometimes, Adams said, Boggs would ask her not to wear panties to the game to help him break a slump. Adams described Boggs as a selfish player obsessed with his personal statistics. She also reported his disparaging remarks about some teammates, such as his comment that outfielder Jim Rice "thinks he's white." But it was her graphic descriptions of the sexual high jinks of other Red Sox players -- some of whom were said to have teamed up in me'nages a` trois, while others entertained girlfriends in the same hotels where their wives were staying -- that stunned the team's training camp in Winter Haven, Fla. Pitcher Dennis (Oil Can) Boyd even suggested that Boggs see a psychiatrist for what Boggs himself has described as his addiction to sex. Adams, poised and polished behind the lectern, said today that she had "great sex with Wade," but would hardly characterize it as his main obsession. "If he had a sex disease and thinks he was oversexed, I didn't get that sex," she said to hearty laughter. "Why didn't we spend more time in the room? Why did we go out every night with the guys? ... It wasn't me who said no to sex." Asked repeatedly what lessons she had learned, Adams spent much of her time blaming herself for the adulterous affair. "People say, 'Were you a victim of Wade?' No. When you date a married man, you make yourself a victim. Wade didn't break my heart -- I allowed that to happen ... "How could I ever have considered myself a smart girl? I mean, where was I? I must have been off on vacation during those four years, or my brain was somewhere else." Adams said she had placed her "faith and trust" in someone "who basically has to conduct his life as a liar and a cheat in order to carry on the relationship. What a stupid thing to do." But if she became Boggs' road mistress with both eyes open, why does he owe her anything? "I was a helpmate, a traveling companion, a lover, a girlfriend," she said, the words tumbling out in a torrent. "And I more than lived up to everything I promised Wade. And it breaks my heart that we couldn't part as friends. It shocked me that it happened that way." Adams said she never pressed Boggs to leave his wife and that it was she who broke off the affair, although her "biggest fear" was whether she would "be strong enough to really stay away from him." How, then, did Boggs betray her? Adams' answer came down to money. "When I asked for the $100,000, I thought that was one year's income" under their "oral contract," she said. Adams said she rejected an offer from rival Playboy because it was primarily interested in nude pictures of her, whereas Penthouse also liked her for her mind -- or at least agreed to devote two issues to her saga. "Playboy said, 'Your career will take off after this,' " Adams said. "Well, I'm a mortgage banker ... and that's not what I need in my career. I wanted the story to be told, along with the pictures. And they are fabulous -- I've seen them." Margo Adams seems to like ballplayers. Another lover, she said, was former Los Angeles Dodgers star Steve Garvey, with whom she says she has remained friends. But she also portrayed the baseball world as filled with immature men who spend night after night drinking in bars, distract themselves with a steady stream of groupies and brag about it afterward. Pressed to name names, Adams listed a half-dozen Red Sox players who she said behaved themselves -- Roger Clemens, Rich Gedman, Bruce Hurst, Dwight Evans, Bob Stanley and Marty Barrett -- and said people could draw their own conclusions about the rest. "They are unbelievably protected ... What I say is not going to change baseball. Everyone knows it's gone on for years," she said. The blue-eyed brunet suggested that reporters who cover the teams know far more than they convey to their readers. "I've never been able to understand the handicap sportswriters work under, when you see people come in at 3 and 4 o'clock in the morning with girls on each arm, and they make a couple of errors that day," she said. "Luckily for Wade, he is so focused and he is so good ... it doesn't affect him. I mean, you're looking at a man who was able to live two separate lives for four years."

[mvp 78]

Silver anniversary of bizarre Wade Boggs injury (6/9/11)

by Chris Jaffe

June 9, 2011

 

The 1986 season looked like it might be a historic one for Wade Boggs. He entered the year widely considered the best pure hitter in the game. He’d won batting titles in two of the previous three years—and this was back when batting average was still the undisputed king of how the public gauged a player’s offensive contributions.

 

But 1986 looked like the year Boggs might do the unthinkable: Attain the long-sought Holy Grail of a .400 batting average. George Brett had threatened to do it in 1980 but fell short, ending at .390. Ted Williams’ .406 in 1941 was still the last time anyone had achieved it.

 

As June began, Boggs was right there, hitting .404 on June 6. Sure, there was a lot of season left to play, but he’d also hit .402 from June 12 onward in 1985. That made it interesting. That month The Sporting News would run a cover story pondering if Boggs could hit .400 for the year.

 

Boggs slumped a little bit as June reached its second week, but then a bizarre incident helped derail his hopes: He took off his cowboy boots. Or, more precisely, he tried to take off his cowboy boots.

 

In a hotel in Toronto on June 9, 1986, Boggs tried to use his foot to pry off the cowboy boot from his other foot, only to have things go rather badly. Instead of losing his boot, he lost his balance and fell ribcage-first into the arm of a couch. Ooph. And just like that, the world-class hitter looked like a Keystone Cop. It would be purely funny, except Boggs felt like he could barely breathe after hitting the couch. He bruised his ribs badly and could barely take a deep breath.

 

He could only pinch hit in the next game (where he drew a walk). After playing all the next three games (with only two hits), Boggs had to leave a game early on June 15 because his ribs weren’t getting better. By this time, his average was down to .380, and he wound up missing six games. When Boggs finally came back, he wasn’t quite the same and ended the year with a .357 mark, nowhere near .400, but still enough to lead the league.

 

Injury or no injury, he wasn’t going to hit .400. His average was already down to .389 when he took his tumble, but it came right as talk about his chances to do it peaked. And the injury itself was so weird. That combination made it one of the most memorable baseball injuries of the era.

 

Here are other baseball events celebrating an anniversary or “day-versary” (an event that took place X-thousand days ago) occurring today. Here are some others, with the better ones in bold if you just want to skim.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Due to the paucity of quality defensive CFs, Bradley Jr. is going to cost more money than I would want to spend. Moreover, he isn't far off from experiencing some kind of significant defensive decline. He is getting older and slower.

 

I would go young and cheap in CF -- that is, Marcus Wilson competes against Jarren Duran in spring training and the guy who has the better spring wins the starting job and ninth spot in the order. The LF will be H.Renfroe, the RF will be A.Verdugo with JD Martinez as the DH (Benintendi will be traded). By going cheap in CF (rather than resign Bradley Jr, who will cost at least 10 mil per year?) the Red Sox will have more resources to invest in pitching.

 

In the worst scenario, Wilson and Duran can't handle the starting job, and the Red Sox make a trade at the deadline for a starting CF, assuming they are alive and well in the AL East at the time.

 

I like the idea of taking chances and going with young unproven players. You don't want to do that with every position, but doing that for one position doesn't strike me as an outrageous risk. You can sometimes find good players in guys who aren't top 50 prospects. If M.Wilson can provide the Red Sox with a .220 BA with 20 HR, and above average defense, that wouldn't be so terrible. He isn't Joe Dimaggio but maybe he will be good enough for the ninth spot in the order.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Fan_since_Boggs

[notin]

Due to the paucity of quality defensive CFs, Bradley Jr. is going to cost more money than I would want to spend. Moreover, he isn't far off from experiencing some kind of significant defensive decline. He is getting older and slower.

 

I would go young and cheap in CF -- that is, Marcus Wilson competes against Jarren Duran in spring training and the guy who has the better spring wins the starting job and ninth spot in the order. The LF will be H.Renfroe, the RF will be A.Verdugo with JD Martinez as the DH (Benintendi will be traded). By going cheap in CF (rather than resign Bradley Jr, who will cost at least 10 mil per year?) the Red Sox will have more resources to invest in pitching.

 

In the worst scenario, Wilson and Duran can't handle the starting job, and the Red Sox make a trade at the deadline for a starting CF, assuming they are alive and well in the AL East at the time.

 

I like the idea of taking chances and going with young unproven players. You don't want to do that with every position, but doing that for one position doesn't strike me as an outrageous risk. You can sometimes find good players in guys who aren't top 50 prospects. If M.Wilson can provide the Red Sox with a .220 BA with 20 HR, and above average defense, that wouldn't be so terrible. He isn't Joe Dimaggio but maybe he will be good enough for the ninth spot in the order.

 

What if Wilson doesn’t hit .220 with 20 HRs? What if he hit .140 with 5 HRs? The guy has never hit double digit HRs above A ball. Not sure MLB is where he gets his career high...

Edited January 12, 2021 by notin

[moonslav59]

If we can get Bauer and Springer on one year deals, I'm in!

 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/505388389408044517/

 

This poster just proves my point.

 

Okay, now I unsurrender.

[mvp 78]

CFers still available:

 

Jackie Bradley Jr. CF

Jarrod Dyson CF

Brett Gardner CF / LF

Brian Goodwin CF / LF

Billy Hamilton CF

Jon Jay CF / LF

Jake Marisnick CF

Haruki Nishikawa CF

Kevin Pillar CF / RF

Danny Santana CF / 1B

[moonslav59]

My choice is E-HERN!

[mvp 78]

My choice is E-HERN!

 

https://soxoutsider.substack.com/p/bostons-secret-centerfielder