2020-2021 Offseason Thread

[mvp 78]

For example:

 

Boston trades Devers

 

Braves trade Riley (3B), Muller (LHP), Waters (OF)

 

Riley is ready to take over at 3B. Muller would be good starting depth to go along with Mata. Waters could start in CF this year.

 

Is it a package Bloom would like? IDK. But it's the type of deal I could see him making.

[moonslav59]

Yup. I'd be sad to see him go, but if some team wanted to overpay for him, it's time to go.

 

I can't see a team offering enough for me to be okay with trading Devers. I still think he is going to improve and maybe even vastly improve- both on O and D.

[notin]

For example:

 

Boston trades Devers

 

Braves trade Riley (3B), Muller (LHP), Waters (OF)

 

Riley is ready to take over at 3B. Muller would be good starting depth to go along with Mata. Waters could start in CF this year.

 

Is it a package Bloom would like? IDK. But it's the type of deal I could see him making.

 

But see all of the might wind up as average players. It's an overpay by some standards, but I would take my chances with Devers.

 

Now if maybe Ian Anderson found his way into that deal...

[mvp 78]

But see all of the might wind up as average players. It's an overpay by some standards, but I would take my chances with Devers.

 

Now if maybe Ian Anderson found his way into that deal...

 

I didn't want to go too crazy with a deal. I tried to make it look like a modest overpay.

[notin]

I didn't want to go too crazy with a deal. I tried to make it look like a modest overpay.

 

So no Ronald Acuna and Ozzie Albies?

[moonslav59]

For example:

 

Boston trades Devers

 

Braves trade Riley (3B), Muller (LHP), Waters (OF)

 

Riley is ready to take over at 3B. Muller would be good starting depth to go along with Mata. Waters could start in CF this year.

 

Is it a package Bloom would like? IDK. But it's the type of deal I could see him making.

 

The BTV site would not approve this trade, because they think the Sox would be getting too much for Devers (55.3). It would approve a deal without Riley (19.5) or Muller (12.5). Waters is rated as 37.5.

 

Add Beni (5.3) and Inciarte (-9.4) to the deal, and it is accepted.

 

It's actually not a bad deal. I must admit, I don't know much about Riley, but if the Braves are really looking for a 3Bman, it makes me wonder why his rating is 19.5.

 

I'd also be worried waters may not pan out like his rating suggests, but this trade would be interesting. (I'd try to get them to add Wright and maybe take back Pivetta.)

[harmony]

I can't see a team offering enough for me to be okay with trading Devers. I still think he is going to improve and maybe even vastly improve- both on O and D.

An improved Rafael Devers falls within the range of possible outcomes.

 

So is the career of Pablo Sandoval, who had slightly better numbers than Devers through their age 23 seasons.

 

Each option carries risk.

[vegasbob]

As previously suggested, the 2021 season parameters are far from settled . MLBPA and ownerships are both floating new proposals including a 154 game season, deferred ST and season start, travel restrictions on Blue Jay games in Canada, DH in NL, expanded playoffs, etc. There will be some serious waltzing around as the Covid vax programs gain minor momentum and Manfred looks for some cover.

 

I know MLBPA has previously rejected some ideas like the NL DH. That is a strange one since they use the DH in AL city games and it creates jobs for some guys who can no longer play full games, usually highly paid mature hitters. In the near 50 years of usage in the AL, I think it has been a great enhancement to the game . Ortiz would never have survived a couple of season back in the early 2000's without it, but now he is a likely HoF'er ( maybe 5 ballots in)

[moonslav59]

An improved Rafael Devers falls within the range of possible outcomes.

 

So is the career of Pablo Sandoval, who had slightly better numbers than Devers through their age 23 seasons.

 

Each option carries risk.

 

Devers was called up a year younger and had a shortened 2020 season to deal with.

 

Of course, there is always a risk a player never lives up to the projected prime year bell chart curve, as Pablito never did.

 

I'm putting my money of Devers to end up blowing Sandoval's career numbers sky-high.

[notin]

An improved Rafael Devers falls within the range of possible outcomes.

 

So is the career of Pablo Sandoval, who had slightly better numbers than Devers through their age 23 seasons.

 

Each option carries risk.

 

I assume waist size was one of those numbers...

[notin]

The BTV site would not approve this trade, because they think the Sox would be getting too much for Devers (55.3). It would approve a deal without Riley (19.5) or Muller (12.5). Waters is rated as 37.5.

 

 

That was the whole point - that they woud only deal Devers (or Vazquez, apparently) if they were getting back "too much". ..

[moonslav59]

That was the whole point - that they woud only deal Devers (or Vazquez, apparently) if they were getting back "too much". ..

 

In theory, with the Sox roster being so weak near the bottom 10-15 players on the 40 man roster, a one for four deal makes sense, especially if all 4 players have as much or more years of team control as Devers has, but it's always hard to agree to part with such a special talent as Devers.

 

It was hard enough resigning myself to the loss of Betts, and we could be looking at a Bogey opt out pretty soon.

 

I'm open to any trade ideas, but it doesn't mean I agree with all the value ratings the BTV site assigns. There are several Sox players I think are overvalued, like Chavis.

[mvp 78]

The BTV site would not approve this trade, because they think the Sox would be getting too much for Devers (55.3). It would approve a deal without Riley (19.5) or Muller (12.5). Waters is rated as 37.5.

 

Add Beni (5.3) and Inciarte (-9.4) to the deal, and it is accepted.

 

It's actually not a bad deal. I must admit, I don't know much about Riley, but if the Braves are really looking for a 3Bman, it makes me wonder why his rating is 19.5.

 

I'd also be worried waters may not pan out like his rating suggests, but this trade would be interesting. (I'd try to get them to add Wright and maybe take back Pivetta.)

 

I wasn't looking to get the trade to work out. I was trying to show a deal that was tilted in BOS favor.

[mvp 78]

As previously suggested, the 2021 season parameters are far from settled . MLBPA and ownerships are both floating new proposals including a 154 game season, deferred ST and season start, travel restrictions on Blue Jay games in Canada, DH in NL, expanded playoffs, etc. There will be some serious waltzing around as the Covid vax programs gain minor momentum and Manfred looks for some cover.

 

I know MLBPA has previously rejected some ideas like the NL DH. That is a strange one since they use the DH in AL city games and it creates jobs for some guys who can no longer play full games, usually highly paid mature hitters. In the near 50 years of usage in the AL, I think it has been a great enhancement to the game . Ortiz would never have survived a couple of season back in the early 2000's without it, but now he is a likely HoF'er ( maybe 5 ballots in)

 

The MLBPA turned down the DH rule because it was linked to increase playoff games where the players don't get enough of the pie.

[harmony]

I assume waist size was one of those numbers...

At the end of his age 23 season Pablo Sandoval reportedly weighed 278 pounds but weighed in at 240 pounds the following February:

 

https://www.mercurynews.com/2011/02/18/giants-notebook-pablo-sandoval-weighs-in-at-240-pounds/

 

Coming off his age 23 season, Rafael Devers weighs 240 pounds, according to Baseball Reference:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/deverra01.shtml

[mvp 78]

In theory, with the Sox roster being so weak near the bottom 10-15 players on the 40 man roster, a one for four deal makes sense, especially if all 4 players have as much or more years of team control as Devers has, but it's always hard to agree to part with such a special talent as Devers.

 

It was hard enough resigning myself to the loss of Betts, and we could be looking at a Bogey opt out pretty soon.

 

I'm open to any trade ideas, but it doesn't mean I agree with all the value ratings the BTV site assigns. There are several Sox players I think are overvalued, like Chavis.

 

Worrying about the bottom of the 40 man roster is a waste. It's more important to worry about the bottom of your 25 man roster.

[mvp 78]

At the end of his age 23 season Pablo Sandoval reportedly weighed 278 pounds but weighed in at 240 pounds the following February:

 

https://www.mercurynews.com/2011/02/18/giants-notebook-pablo-sandoval-weighs-in-at-240-pounds/

 

Coming off his age 23 season, Rafael Devers weighs 240 pounds, according to Baseball Reference:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/deverra01.shtml

 

Devers is also 2 inches taller. His legs seem much thicker than Pablo, who carried a lot of his weight in his midsection.

[moonslav59]

I wasn't looking to get the trade to work out. I was trying to show a deal that was tilted in BOS favor.

 

I get it.

 

The Braves might actually do that trade.

 

They have such a deep and strong 40 man roster that freeing up 3 slots allows them some roster flexibility.

[moonslav59]

Worrying about the bottom of the 40 man roster is a waste. It's more important to worry about the bottom of your 25 man roster.

 

Good point, but the #27-#40 guys are often your top 26 guys, next year or the year after.

 

I would also argue the bottom of our 26 man roster is weaker than usual, especially for a team spending in the top 5 in MLB.

[Bellhorn04]

Good point, but the #27-#40 guys are often your top 26 guys, next year or the year after.

 

I would also argue the bottom of our 26 man roster is weaker than usual, especially for a team spending in the top 5 in MLB.

 

And I doubt anyone would argue very strenuously against you.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

MLB.com with today's article on every team's "regret" trades

One MLB player each team would like back

WWW.MLB.COM

---

Every team has regrets. The Red Sox probably wish they didn’t want Larry Andersen so bad they were willing to trade Jeff Bagwell for him; the Cubs will hear the name “Ernie Broglio” in their ears forever; and hey, didn’t Babe Ruth used to play for the Red Sox? There’s

...

 

... gets the wheels turning. A lot of talent is exchanged in deals, but seldom does one team really fleece another by nabbing a future Hall of Famer -- especially if he's still only a prospect. Tatis Jr. was a steal, but other than that... Arozarena had a great month, but will he sustain success? Gleybar Torres tailed off a bit, but even if he rebounds, do any Cubs' fans regret their title?

 

In the past 30+ years, Smoltz and Bagwell are two traded prospects who made it to Cooperstown. Are there more? Or do teams, fan addicts, and trade simulator sites vastly overrate players who haven't even made it to the majors?

[notin]

MLB.com with today's article on every team's "regret" trades

One MLB player each team would like back

WWW.MLB.COM

---

Every team has regrets. The Red Sox probably wish they didn’t want Larry Andersen so bad they were willing to trade Jeff Bagwell for him; the Cubs will hear the name “Ernie Broglio” in their ears forever; and hey, didn’t Babe Ruth used to play for the Red Sox? There’s

...

 

... gets the wheels turning. A lot of talent is exchanged in deals, but seldom does one team really fleece another by nabbing a future Hall of Famer -- especially if he's still only a prospect. Tatis Jr. was a steal, but other than that... Arozarena had a great month, but will he sustain success? Gleybar Torres tailed off a bit, but even if he rebounds, do any Cubs' fans regret their title?

 

In the past 30+ years, Smoltz and Bagwell are two traded prospects who made it to Cooperstown. Are there more? Or do teams, fan addicts, and trade simulator sites vastly overrate players who haven't even made it to the majors?

 

An easy list to find disagreements with. Mike Yastrzemski over Jake Arrieta? Max Fried over Corey Kluber? And those two were spotted on first glance.

 

Also, Randy Johnson and Trevor Hoffman were essentially prospects when each was traded. The same can be said for that skinny kid Tommy LaSorda didn’t like. You know, Ramon’s brother...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

An easy list to find disagreements with. Mike Yastrzemski over Jake Arrieta? Max Fried over Corey Kluber? And those two were spotted on first glance.

 

Also, Randy Johnson and Trevor Hoffman were essentially prospects when each was traded. The same can be said for that skinny kid Tommy LaSorda didn’t like. You know, Ramon’s brother...

 

I was also thinking Andrew Miller, but he was a #6 overall pick who kept getting traded (four teams) before getting Cy Young votes and making All-Star teams... as a set-up man?

[harmony]

MLB.com with today's article on every team's "regret" trades

One MLB player each team would like back

WWW.MLB.COM

---

Every team has regrets. The Red Sox probably wish they didn’t want Larry Andersen so bad they were willing to trade Jeff Bagwell for him; the Cubs will hear the name “Ernie Broglio” in their ears forever; and hey, didn’t Babe Ruth used to play for the Red Sox? There’s

...

 

... gets the wheels turning. A lot of talent is exchanged in deals, but seldom does one team really fleece another by nabbing a future Hall of Famer -- especially if he's still only a prospect. Tatis Jr. was a steal, but other than that... Arozarena had a great month, but will he sustain success? Gleybar Torres tailed off a bit, but even if he rebounds, do any Cubs' fans regret their title?

 

In the past 30+ years, Smoltz and Bagwell are two traded prospects who made it to Cooperstown. Are there more? Or do teams, fan addicts, and trade simulator sites vastly overrate players who haven't even made it to the majors?

The column suggests the Seattle Mariners would like to take back their trade of Ketel Marte to Arizona.

 

After that trade the Diamondbacks got 16.8 bWAR: 14.1 bWAR from Marte, 2.9 bWAR from Taijuan Walker and -0.2 from Zac Curtis.

 

The Mariners got 17.3 bWAR: 10.6 bWAR from Mitch Haniger and 6.7 from Jean Segura (who was later included in a trade for Gold Glove winner J.P. Crawford, who has posted 2.8 bWAR at a fraction of the cost). The M's even got 0.4 bWAR from Walker over five 2020 starts in his return to Seattle as a free agent.

Edited February 2, 2021 by harmony

[notin]

I was also thinking Andrew Miller, but he was a #6 overall pick who kept getting traded (four teams) before getting Cy Young votes and making All-Star teams... as a set-up man?

 

There’s also that Schilling guy, who certainly has the track record to be in Cooperstown...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

There’s also that Schilling guy, who certainly has the track record to be in Cooperstown...

 

He's another that took time to develop, and with different teams than the one who first traded for him. It reinforces the difficulty of the sport, and why very few are instant stars the moment they debut... and why trading prospects for "sure things" provides more immediate hope (and fun) for rabid fanbases and impatient franchises.

 

I doubt there are many Cardinals fans bemoaning the addition of Arenado or the loss of the minor leaguers it took to get him.

[Bellhorn04]

He's another that took time to develop, and with different teams than the one who first traded for him. It reinforces the difficulty of the sport, and why very few are instant stars the moment they debut... and why trading prospects for "sure things" provides more immediate hope (and fun) for rabid fanbases and impatient franchises.

 

I doubt there are many Cardinals fans bemoaning the addition of Arenado or the loss of the minor leaguers it took to get him.

 

This was a nice salary dump acquisition by the Cards. They didn't give up any premier prospects. So I'm sure there are no moaning Cards fans.

 

If they gave up a blue chipper it might be a different story.

[notin]

He's another that took time to develop, and with different teams than the one who first traded for him. It reinforces the difficulty of the sport, and why very few are instant stars the moment they debut... and why trading prospects for "sure things" provides more immediate hope (and fun) for rabid fanbases and impatient franchises.

 

I doubt there are many Cardinals fans bemoaning the addition of Arenado or the loss of the minor leaguers it took to get him.

 

 

But those “sure things” get expensive fast. And the only way to keep the ones you have is to make sure you have a few semi-capable minimum wage players on hand. And the more “sure things” you take on, the tougher it gets to keep your own.

 

No one wanted to see Betts go, except possibly Betts. And for all the talk about his extension with LA being a foregone conclusion from Day One, it still took the largest contract in MLB history to keep him there. And that’s what it took to keep him someplace where he was already HAPPY!!

 

But because the Dodgers had Seager and Bellinger and Buehler and Gonsolin and found some scrap heap gems in Muncy and Taylor, and they had a stream of minor league arms, they had a lot better positioned to afford Betts. At least for now. We’ll see if it enables them to hold on to Bellinger...

[Bellhorn04]

He's another that took time to develop, and with different teams than the one who first traded for him. It reinforces the difficulty of the sport, and why very few are instant stars the moment they debut... and why trading prospects for "sure things" provides more immediate hope (and fun) for rabid fanbases and impatient franchises.

 

I doubt there are many Cardinals fans bemoaning the addition of Arenado or the loss of the minor leaguers it took to get him.

 

And you know what fans are like. They're okay with trading prospects until/unless the prospects turn out to be stars with other teams. Then they're screaming bloody murder.

[Bellhorn04]

No one wanted to see Betts go, except possibly Betts. And for all the talk about his extension with LA being a foregone conclusion from Day One, it still took the largest contract in MLB history to keep him there. And that’s what it took to keep him someplace where he was already HAPPY!!

 

I never thought it was a foregone conclusion. I thought it was a legitimate risk. We'll never know how it would have played out without a pandemic.

 

Also, as you know, while technically it's the largest contract in history, with the deferrals the present value is lower than a few others.