Why was Mookie traded, exactly?

[Bellhorn04]

The Marlins ownership demanded the sell-offs. (The long time returning to respectability was not all on DD. They didn't even try to get back for many years.)

 

The Tigers ownership demanded a win now philosophy.

 

I have to think Henry knew what DD was going to do, when he hired him, so to me, it's not all on DD and besides, DD brought us the best 3 year stretch in 90+ years of Red Sox history. Focusing on just the bad aspects of his era is well within your rights, but did you enjoy those 3 years? 2018 was a super team- super record- super playoffs.

 

I can totally sympathize with anyone who thinks the few years we're in the middle of suck, and they do. I can understand anyone thinking 2016 to 2018 does not outweigh the 2019-2021, but to me it was, and I can't see how anyone can feel so strongly that the balance is so out of whack as to never even mention the good side of DD's era.

 

(I also feel the same about those who so strongly bash the Ben era.)

 

You're fair.

[Bellhorn04]

Between Ben and DD, the only thing that either one of them ever did that I disliked a lot at the time was Ben's construction of the 2015 pitching staff.

[notin]

Between Ben and DD, the only thing that either one of them ever did that I disliked a lot at the time was Ben's construction of the 2015 pitching staff.

 

Rotation or bullpen?

 

His 2015 rotation challenged what we “know” about building pitching staffs, with it’s lack of ace talent. But many forget the World Series Champion that year had a rotation headlined by Edinson Volsquez...

[Bellhorn04]

Rotation or bullpen?

 

His 2015 rotation challenged what we “know” about building pitching staffs, with it’s lack of ace talent. But many forget the World Series Champion that year had a rotation headlined by Edinson Volsquez...

 

Yeah, you already schooled me a bit that it was the bullpen that was actually our problem that year.

 

It was just a gut reaction of horror on my part, going into the season with Porcello/Buchholz/Kelly/Miley/Masterson. I had very little confidence in any of them.

[notin]

Yeah, you already schooled me a bit that it was the bullpen that was actually our problem that year.

 

It was just a gut reaction of horror on my part, going into the season with Porcello/Buchholz/Kelly/Miley/Masterson. I had very little confidence in any of them.

 

At the start of that season, I did not hate that rotation. But I did question the "heavy groundball pitching staff" concept with out infield defense.

[Sox75]

Not to pick the scab....

 

https://dodgersway.com/2020/12/20/red-sox-already-lost-mookie-betts-trade-dodgers/

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Not to pick the scab....

 

https://dodgersway.com/2020/12/20/red-sox-already-lost-mookie-betts-trade-dodgers/

 

It's ok, not a lot of other Sox talk to talk about lately... except the signing of a hitter who batted .156 last summer.

 

Of course, this article was gleefully written on a Dodgers site. But it got me to wondering: was the LA outrage over the way the Cora-led Sox supposedly won the '18 World Series ever addressed with their new superstar?

 

We never once heard or read anything about the losers pointing fingers or asking for clarifications or explanations from Mr. B, once he changed sides... (maybe it was done in private, but some local or national reporter must have questioned the bowling elephant in the room).

[Bellhorn04]

It's ok, not a lot of other Sox talk to talk about lately... except the signing of a hitter who batted .156 last summer.

 

Of course, this article was gleefully written on a Dodgers site. But it got me to wondering: was the LA outrage over the way the Cora-led Sox supposedly won the '18 World Series ever addressed with their new superstar?

 

We never once heard or read anything about the losers pointing fingers or asking for clarifications or explanations from Mr. B, once he changed sides... (maybe it was done in private, but some local or national reporter must have questioned the bowling elephant in the room).

 

It's a non-issue. Manfred's report specifically stated that the Red Sox use of the video room for sign stealing only happened in the regular season. MLB actually had hall monitors in the video rooms during that postseason.

[Bellhorn04]

Not to pick the scab....

 

https://dodgersway.com/2020/12/20/red-sox-already-lost-mookie-betts-trade-dodgers/

 

I almost have to give credit to the guy who wrote this. That is some pro level gloating LOL

[mvp 78]

I almost have to give credit to the guy who wrote this. That is some pro level gloating LOL

 

That's definitely some kind of writing.

 

TalkSox does have a little history with Dodgers fans, but it's far too early to say who won/lost the trade. Dodgers had spent the past few years crying about losing in the playoffs, now they are riding high. The Dodgers will have their own piper to pay in a few years. If they only get one title out of the deal, it was probably worth it for them.

 

For the Sox, it was what it was. They didn't want to re-sign him. They got a decent return out of it. I'm not happy with the move, but it's the move that the boss wanted.

[notin]

I almost have to give credit to the guy who wrote this. That is some pro level gloating LOL

 

And the weird part was it was some stupid Sports Illustrated Player of the Year Award to finally get him to write it.

 

I’m picturing his internal struggle. “Do I publish that article where I say the Sox need to be embarrassed by the World Series? Not yet. How about after the Gold Glove? Or Silver Slugger? Or great season Graterol had? Or after coming in second line NL MVP? No, no, no and no. Too soon. Timing is everything here.”

 

“Betts won SI Player of the Year!! The time is now! Get that blog online!”

[mvp 78]

Anyway, Mookie was traded because the Sox didn't think they could re-sign him for the amount of money they wanted to pay.

 

/end thread

[jad]

Anyway, Mookie was traded because the Sox didn't think they could re-sign him for the amount of money they wanted to pay.

 

/end thread

 

Well yes. Except for that part: The way to win a World Series is to have the best players. The Dodgers were willing to pay to get the best players, the RS were not. /end thread

[Donnie Sadler was short]

Not to pick the scab....

 

https://dodgersway.com/2020/12/20/red-sox-already-lost-mookie-betts-trade-dodgers/

 

You call THAT a world series? 60 games? Hell JBJ can even put up decent numbers over only 60 games.

[Bellhorn04]

Well yes. Except for that part: The way to win a World Series is to have the best players. The Dodgers were willing to pay to get the best players, the RS were not. /end thread

 

mvp78's end thread was much better. Yours just re-opens the discussion.

[mvp 78]

Well yes. Except for that part: The way to win a World Series is to have the best players. The Dodgers were willing to pay to get the best players, the RS were not. /end thread

 

Remember all those years the Blue Jays "won" the offseason and then didn't even qualify for the playoffs?

[notin]

Well yes. Except for that part: The way to win a World Series is to have the best players. The Dodgers were willing to pay to get the best players, the RS were not. /end thread

 

No, the way to win a World Series is to have the best team.

 

The top 5 players by fWAR over the past 50 years only combined for 5 World Series rings in 108 seasons of MLB. And fWAR leader (Barry Bonds) in that time frame never one won.

 

The top 5 pitchers by fWAR over the past 50 years also only combined for 5 WS rings in 117 seasons. (Technically 6, but that would mean counting Ryan's 1969 WS ring, which was outside my range. HEy he only pitched 89 IP that year anyway.)

 

 

It's not about the best players. The Sox had Hall of Famers in LF for 50 straight seasons and none of them ever won a World Series....

[harmony]

No, the way to win a World Series is to have the best team.

 

The top 5 players by fWAR over the past 50 years only combined for 5 World Series rings in 108 seasons of MLB. And fWAR leader (Barry Bonds) in that time frame never one won.

 

The top 5 pitchers by fWAR over the past 50 years also only combined for 5 WS rings in 117 seasons. (Technically 6, but that would mean counting Ryan's 1969 WS ring, which was outside my range. HEy he only pitched 89 IP that year anyway.)

 

 

It's not about the best players. The Sox had Hall of Famers in LF for 50 straight seasons and none of them ever won a World Series....

The 1998 Seattle Mariners went 76-85 with Hall of Famers Ken Griffey Jr., Edgar Martinez and Randy Johnson (the latter was traded on July 31 of that year).

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/1998.shtml

 

Another member of that 1998 Seattle club -- Alex Rodriguez, who ranks 16th all time in career bWAR -- may be headed to the Hall of Fame.

 

Or not.

[mvp 78]

The 1998 Seattle Mariners went 76-85 with Hall of Famers Ken Griffey Jr., Edgar Martinez and Randy Johnson (the latter was traded on July 31 of that year).

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/1998.shtml

 

Another member of that 1998 Seattle club -- Alex Rodriguez, who ranks 16th all time in career bWAR -- may be headed to the Hall of Fame.

 

Or not.

 

Considering the voters' thoughts about PEDs, I don't think ARod gets in.

[Bellhorn04]

Considering the voters' thoughts about PEDs, I don't think ARod gets in.

 

Aren't Bonds and Clemens picking up some new votes in the early results?

[notin]

Considering the voters' thoughts about PEDs, I don't think ARod gets in.

 

They should stop being so judgmental about that and put ARod and the other PED users in. It's a historic museum, after all, and they are part of the sport's history.

 

Millard Fillmore was a s***** president (maybe? no idea.) but no one is trying to take his name out of history books...

[Bellhorn04]

They should stop being so judgmental about that and put ARod and the other PED users in. It's a historic museum, after all, and they are part of the sport's history.

 

Millard Fillmore was a s***** president (maybe? no idea.) but no one is trying to take his name out of history books...

 

It might be fun if they set up different wings in the Hall. One for PED Suspects, one for Borderline Picks etc.

[mvp 78]

98 Mariners also had Slocumb, Timlin, Tony Fossas, Jeff Fassero and John Marzano!

[jad]

No, the way to win a World Series is to have the best team.

 

The top 5 players by fWAR over the past 50 years only combined for 5 World Series rings in 108 seasons of MLB. And fWAR leader (Barry Bonds) in that time frame never one won.

 

The top 5 pitchers by fWAR over the past 50 years also only combined for 5 WS rings in 117 seasons. (Technically 6, but that would mean counting Ryan's 1969 WS ring, which was outside my range. HEy he only pitched 89 IP that year anyway.)

 

 

It's not about the best players. The Sox had Hall of Famers in LF for 50 straight seasons and none of them ever won a World Series....

 

But then, the team they consistently lost to had Hall of Famers at many positions, no?

[Bellhorn04]

But then, the team they consistently lost to had Hall of Famers at many positions, no?

 

The 1978 Red Sox had 4 HOF'ers - Yaz, Rice, Fisk and Eck.

[mvp 78]

The 1978 Red Sox had 4 HOF'ers - Yaz, Rice, Fisk and Eck.

 

Should be 6 with Evans and Tiant.

[Bellhorn04]

Should be 6 with Evans and Tiant.

 

Agreed. Half a dozen.

[notin]

The 1978 Red Sox had 4 HOF'ers - Yaz, Rice, Fisk and Eck.

 

The 1980 Red Sox had 5 with those 4 plus Tony Perez...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

They should stop being so judgmental about that and put ARod and the other PED users in. It's a historic museum, after all, and they are part of the sport's history.

 

Millard Fillmore was a s***** president (maybe? no idea.) but no one is trying to take his name out of history books...

 

That had to be an alias. In college my pal Phil was given the last name Dubowl -- Phillip Dubowl... please.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The 1980 Red Sox had 5 with those 4 plus Tony Perez...

 

Don't forget Ned Martin, quoting Hamlet: "... when sorrows come, they come not as single spies but in battalions.”

 

I'm nostalgic, but I'm refuting Springsteen: "Someday we'll look back at this, and it still won't be funny."