Why was Mookie traded, exactly?

[Kimmi]

You said Dombrowski is 100% responsible for the Sox not being able to keep Mookie. Do you believe that or not?

 

Well if you're going to hold me to that statement, then yes.

[Kimmi]

Actually blaming DD for the Mookie situation is an indictment of Dombrowski’s “Spend Heavy, Trade the Future, Win Now, f*** Tomorrow” strategy he has been employing for several years and through multiple teams....

 

100%

[Kimmi]

Starting the 2019 season , these same folks were saying that we have almost the same team back , and things were looking good for a repeat. I guess they forgot about that.

 

Personally, I have never blamed Dombrowski for the 2019 season. In fact, I defended him many times on that count.

[Bellhorn04]

Well if you're going to hold me to that statement, then yes.

 

Sorry if it sounded that way, but I didn't mean to hold you to it. I was just looking for clarification.

[Bellhorn04]

There is really no doubt who is the single individual most responsible for Mookie Betts's departure.

 

It's Mookie Betts.

 

He's too darn good at baseball.

 

If he was only, say, 10% less good, we would have been able to re-sign him.

 

(Just trying for a little humor.)

[mvp 78]

So glad that they couldn't re-sign Mookie, but are planning on buying another sports franchise.

[cp176]

Yes but it is so much easier for some to blame Dave Dombrowski as opposed to ownership for the failure to keep the future Hall of Famer in town. I will continue to support Bloom since he is the one at the head of the table and in the mean time I'll continue to wait to see whether or not he actually does something of real significance for us.

[mvp 78]

Yes but it is so much easier for some to blame Dave Dombrowski as opposed to ownership for the failure to keep the future Hall of Famer in town. I will continue to support Bloom since he is the one at the head of the table and in the mean time I'll continue to wait to see whether or not he actually does something of real significance for us.

 

Henry brought us the WS! Must lick his boots and never question!

[Bellhorn04]

Henry brought us the WS! Must lick his boots and never question!

 

Ha ha!

 

Henry has brought us 4 WS, and we've always had the highest or 2nd-4th highest payrolls.

 

Of course he can be and is questioned. But if choosing to support someone who has done the above makes you a boot-licker, I'm guilty as charged.

[notin]

Henry brought us the WS! Must lick his boots and never question!

 

Right. Henry was the problem.

 

It’s the guy who allowed for one of the highest budgets in MLB, not the guy who decided how to spend it...

[Bellhorn04]

Blaming it on Henry or blaming it on DD are probably both wrong.

 

I think what happened is that Mookie played hardball from Day One and gave every reason to think he was heading all the way to an epic Free Agency.

 

Which put the team in the position of either trading him or getting one last meaningless season for nothing.

[notin]

Blaming it on Henry or blaming it on DD are probably both wrong.

 

I think what happened is that Mookie played hardball from Day One and gave every reason to think he was heading all the way to an epic Free Agency.

 

Which put the team in the position of either trading him or getting one last meaningless season for nothing.

 

I do agree it’s very likely Mookie forced the issue, but DD’s massive spending (which was hardly a new tactic for him) put the Sox in a position where they had no other choice...

[Bellhorn04]

I do agree it’s very likely Mookie forced the issue, but DD’s massive spending (which was hardly a new tactic for him) put the Sox in a position where they had no other choice...

 

No other choice than what?

 

The only reports we've ever had, and they're not confirmed, of course, are that the Red Sox offered either 300 or 310, and Mookie came back with 420.

 

But the fact is that none of us know if there were any other negotiations that may have led Henry and Werner to conclude that it just wasn't happening.

 

And I think it was you who floated the idea that after negotiations with Mookie stalled, they pivoted to the extensions with Sale and Bogaerts.

[Kimmi]

I am with Notin on this one.

 

On a related topic, I really hope the Sox re-sign ERod. He is the anti-Mookie when it comes to free agency and new contracts. He's the kind of player I want on my team - someone who really wants to be here and isn't necessarily just looking for the largest amount of money.

 

Get it done Bloom.

[Bellhorn04]

If you really buy into the theory that it was the tax concerns that prevented the Red Sox from keeping Mookie, then you have to blame Cherington too. Because a big chunk of the money on the payroll in 2018 and 2019 was carried over from Ben, and a big chunk of that chunk was dead money.

[moonslav59]

If you really buy into the theory that it was the tax concerns that prevented the Red Sox from keeping Mookie, then you have to blame Cherington too. Because a big chunk of the money on the payroll in 2018 and 2019 was carried over from Ben, and a big chunk of that chunk was dead money.

 

By the time Mookie was traded, HanRam was off the books for over a year & Pablito had just come off the books. Castillo didn't count against the tax and had just one year left. Pedey still remained for 2020 & 2021.

 

Looking at the 2019 & 2020 budgets, the Ben influence was a small percent.

 

2019 Tax budget:

31 Price

22 JD

21 Porcello

17 Eovaldi

15 Sale

14 Pedey

12 Bogey

9 JBJ

7 Moreland

 

2020 pre-adjusted

26 Sale

22 JD

20 Bogey

17 Eovaldi

14 Pedey

11 JBJ

8 ERod

7 Perez

 

2018: HRam was on his last year:

(Actual Dollars-not tax budget)

31 Price

24 JD

23 HRam

21 Porcello

18 Pablo

15 Pedey

13 Kimbrel

12 Sale

11 Betts

9 Pom

7 Bogey

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

By the time Mookie was traded, HanRam was off the books for over a year & Pablito had just come off the books. Castillo didn't count against the tax and had just one year left. Pedey still remained for 2020 & 2021.

 

Looking at the 2019 & 2020 budgets, the Ben influence was a small percent.

 

2018 was the first year of exceeding the tax threshold, so that's the first year that matters.

[Donnie Sadler was short]

Blaming it on Henry or blaming it on DD are probably both wrong.

 

I think what happened is that Mookie played hardball from Day One and gave every reason to think he was heading all the way to an epic Free Agency.

 

Which put the team in the position of either trading him or getting one last meaningless season for nothing.

 

This

[Bellhorn04]

In 2018 the tax threshold was 197 million and the Red Sox payroll was 240 million, so they were over by 43 million.

 

Biggest contracts:

 

From DD

 

Price 31

JDM 22

Kimbrel 13

Sale 12.5

Total 78.5

 

From Ben

Hanley 22

Porcello 20.625

Pablo 19

Pedey 13.75

Total 75.375

 

Considering that Porcello was the only one of Ben's to contribute in 2018, you can easily make a case that Ben was more responsible for exceeding the threshold that year.

 

If we didn't go over in 2018, the whole tax scenario would have changed.

[moonslav59]

2018 was the first year of exceeding the tax threshold, so that's the first year that matters.

 

We actually could have kept Betts and reset in 2020, even without dumping Price, JD or Eovaldi. (No JBJ and Perez.)

[mvp 78]

Right. Henry was the problem.

 

It’s the guy who allowed for one of the highest budgets in MLB, not the guy who decided how to spend it...

 

Who signed the checks?

[mvp 78]

If you really buy into the theory that it was the tax concerns that prevented the Red Sox from keeping Mookie, then you have to blame Cherington too. Because a big chunk of the money on the payroll in 2018 and 2019 was carried over from Ben, and a big chunk of that chunk was dead money.

 

Ben deserves a little blame for sure.

 

Hope Bloom doesn’t worry about feeding the monster.

[cp176]

Blaming anyone but the check writer who certainly has the final say, is asinine. All that it basically says is that you are a member of the I hate Dombrowski club because he didn't do things the way I wanted to see them done. It is pretty simple really. That being said, i'm not sure that blaming anyone specifically other than Mookie Betts for this is a little bit of a stretch. An offer was made and he declined it. it is pretty simple really. Whatever, the "I hate DD and always will club" (which appears to be a rather small club)will continue to rant away.

[Bellhorn04]

By the time Mookie was traded, HanRam was off the books for over a year & Pablito had just come off the books. Castillo didn't count against the tax and had just one year left. Pedey still remained for 2020 & 2021.

 

Looking at the 2019 & 2020 budgets, the Ben influence was a small percent.

 

2019 Tax budget:

31 Price

22 JD

21 Porcello

17 Eovaldi

15 Sale

14 Pedey

12 Bogey

9 JBJ

7 Moreland

 

You left out Pablo for 2019 - that was his final year.

[jacksonianmarch]

DD’s methods worked. 2018 banner will fly forever. You live with the consequences. Yes, this rebuild will be longer and harder than any return to prominence since the first title in 04, but you still got a title. Remember, prior to 16 years ago, most Sox fans would sell their first born for what DD delivered and wouldn’t care if it was a 20 yr rebuild

[Bellhorn04]

Who signed the checks?

 

Henry didn't just sign the checks - as notin says, he set the spending budget.

[Bellhorn04]

DD’s methods worked. 2018 banner will fly forever. You live with the consequences. Yes, this rebuild will be longer and harder than any return to prominence since the first title in 04, but you still got a title. Remember, prior to 16 years ago, most Sox fans would sell their first born for what DD delivered and wouldn’t care if it was a 20 yr rebuild

 

The ones who said they wouldn’t care if it was a 20 yr rebuild were lying their asses off, of course.

[notin]

The ones who said they wouldn’t care if it was a 20 yr rebuild were lying their asses off, of course.

 

Obviously. We have plenty who solely remember Cherington for “3 last place finishes in 4 years” and NEVER acknowledge what happened in that other season...

[moonslav59]

In 2018 the tax threshold was 197 million and the Red Sox payroll was 240 million, so they were over by 43 million.

 

Biggest contracts:

 

From DD

 

Price 31

JDM 22

Kimbrel 13

Sale 12.5

Total 78.5

 

From Ben

Hanley 22

Porcello 20.625

Pablo 19

Pedey 13.75

Total 75.375

 

Considering that Porcello was the only one of Ben's to contribute in 2018, you can easily make a case that Ben was more responsible for exceeding the threshold that year.

 

If we didn't go over in 2018, the whole tax scenario would have changed.

 

We could have kept Betts and reset, so I'm still not sure why 2018 is so connected to 2020. I get the 3rd year stiffer penalties, so 2018 set that in motion. I agree, Ben's deals played a part in the budget mess of 2019 and 2020, but it wasn't as great as you seem to be saying it was.

[Bellhorn04]

We could have kept Betts and reset, so I'm still not sure why 2018 is so connected to 2020. I get the 3rd year stiffer penalties, so 2018 set that in motion. I agree, Ben's deals played a part in the budget mess of 2019 and 2020, but it wasn't as great as you seem to be saying it was.

 

It's all about the narrative that "we had to trade Mookie in 2020 to re-set the tax rate".

 

We didn't go over in 2018 and 2019 just because of DD's spending.

 

We went over because of Ben's spending too - especially in 2018 - with about $55 million of dead money still on the books.

 

And we went over because Henry authorized it - he wanted to go for broke, so to speak.

 

If you want to assign blame for the tax situation, there's no way you can leave out Ben or JH.