Why was Mookie traded, exactly?

[Kimmi]

Lester is getting that 10M buyout this offseason. I believe he still has value as a 4/5 guy who can eat innings. It'd be cool of the Sox to bring him back for one more year, but Lester may just want to go home.

 

!!!

 

He did say that he is open to the possibility of a reunion with the Sox.

[Kimmi]

I was ok with letting Lester go because his body language to me looked like he could use a change of scenery (but it may have just been his frustration of getting lowballed for admitting he'd take a discount), and he partook in chicken and beer... however, I was not ok with giving more money to Price to make up for it. I didn't like Price mouthing off about Papi's HR trots after serving up gopher balls or that his ERA always soared in the postseason.

 

Red Sox history will always show that Price did indeed pitch three great games in one October title, but also that Jon Lester won twice as many postseason games and twice as many rings. And then he won again in Chicago.

 

Given a choice between signing Lester or Price, I would have taken Lester, hands down. Not even open for discussion.

[Kimmi]

Chicken and beer may have been overblown, but here's what's not overblown about 2011:

 

-The Red Sox had one of the worst collapses in baseball history.

 

And worse:

 

-The Red Sox subsequently lost (arguably) both the best GM and best manager in team history.

 

Another example of ownership overreacting and going to the opposite extreme, not with the GM but with the manager.

[Kimmi]

That he lost the team is not in doubt. That the "chicken and beer" incidents were part of it is overblown. As at least one player has said, that type of thing happens all over the league, and it is entirely possible it had been going on in Boston for a long time as well...

 

If the Sox had won the championship that year, chicken and beer would have been viewed as a positive clubhouse thing, much like the antics of the 2004 idiots were viewed.

[Kimmi]

Lost control aka had no starting pitching left in September.

 

^^^

[Bellhorn04]

I've never seen a pitching staff collapse at the end as badly as that one did. The numbers are staggering.

[mvp 78]

@TheAthleticLA

He's 22, a weight-room marvel and a general goofball. Meet Brusdar Graterol, the most popular player in the Dodgers clubhouse

[moonslav59]

@TheAthleticLA

He's 22, a weight-room marvel and a general goofball. Meet Brusdar Graterol, the most popular player in the Dodgers clubhouse

 

It's a good sign Bloom knows how to spot pitching talent.

 

This time our medical staff let us down. Usually, it's not knowing someone is hurt (Pom, THornburg...). This time it was warning this kid was an injury risk (which he still might be).

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's a good sign Bloom knows how to spot pitching talent.

 

This time our medical staff let us down. Usually, it's not knowing someone is hurt (Pom, THornburg...). This time it was warning this kid was an injury risk (which he still might be).

 

The explanation that is still confusing to me is that his medicals didn't profile him to be a starter, which is supposedly why the Sox wanted him. Meanwhile, LA uses him as an opener (a strategy invented in Tampa during Bloom's days there), while our openers -- most acquired or promoted since -- have been the bane of the worst pitching staff in Boston history this summer.

[Bellhorn04]

I can't get too upset about missing out on a relief pitcher.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I can't get too upset about missing out on a relief pitcher.

 

Nope, but I can about missing out on getting any pitcher from the best staff in baseball in a trade for someone who is now their best position player.

[Bellhorn04]

Nope, but I can about missing out on getting any pitcher from the best staff in baseball in a trade for someone who is now their best position player.

 

We got Downs instead. We'll see how it all works out.

 

Verdugo is certainly not disappointing.

[Kimmi]

I can't get too upset about missing out on a relief pitcher.

 

You're on a roll Bell!

[jacksonianmarch]

I can't get too upset about missing out on a relief pitcher.

 

It’s less a relief pitching prospect and more the value added. If Downs is viewed as a potential top of the order regular, he will have a greater worth than a reliever ever will. Whether he reaches that talent is irrelevant, especially with the strong likelihood, imo, of him being dealt as part of a deal for controllable young pitching

[notin]

I can't get too upset about missing out on a relief pitcher.

 

Even one with fewer fWAR than Ryan Brasier.

 

 

But will Downs make the substitution worth it?

[notin]

It’s less a relief pitching prospect and more the value added. If Downs is viewed as a potential top of the order regular, he will have a greater worth than a reliever ever will. Whether he reaches that talent is irrelevant, especially with the strong likelihood, imo, of him being dealt as part of a deal for controllable young pitching

 

I am going to assume he needs a few more at bats in AA before they view him as a "top of the anything" hitter...

[Kimmi]

Even one with fewer fWAR than Ryan Brasier.

 

 

But will Downs make the substitution worth it?

 

Who knows if Downs will ever amount to anything? However, IMO, you take the potential every day position player over the reliever every time, even if the position player is 'blocked' and pitching is our weakness. As you've mentioned, Downs could potentially be traded for pitching.

 

If Graterol were slated to be a starter, then it's a different story.

[moonslav59]

Who knows if Downs will ever amount to anything? However, IMO, you take the potential every day position player over the reliever every time, even if the position player is 'blocked' and pitching is our weakness. As you've mentioned, Downs could potentially be traded for pitching.

 

If Graterol were slated to be a starter, then it's a different story.

 

A few people said he was slated to be a RP'er, perhaps based on health issues. He was mostly a starter in the minors and has started for the Dodgers, this year.

 

I'm not sure we can say he had to be a RP'er.

[harmony]

A few people said he was slated to be a RP'er, perhaps based on health issues. He was mostly a starter in the minors and has started for the Dodgers, this year.

 

I'm not sure we can say he had to be a RP'er.

Brusdar Graterol has made 20 appearances for the Dodgers this year but his only two starts came as an opener when the righthander went 1 and 1.1 innings, respectively:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=gratebr01&t=p&year=2020

[moonslav59]

Brusdar Graterol has made 20 appearances for the Dodgers this year but his only two starts came as an opener when the righthander went 1 and 1.1 innings, respectively:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=gratebr01&t=p&year=2020

 

Yes, but are we certain he can never be a starter?

[Larry Cook]

Yes, but are we certain he can never be a starter?

 

After seeing him pitch, I would definitely keep him in the bullpen.

[harmony]

Yes, but are we certain he can never be a starter?

To state the obvious: Many are surprised that the Red Sox did not land a pitcher in the Mookie Betts trade.

[Kimmi]

A few people said he was slated to be a RP'er, perhaps based on health issues. He was mostly a starter in the minors and has started for the Dodgers, this year.

 

I'm not sure we can say he had to be a RP'er.

 

I'm going off of what I've read from the teams that were involved in the trade. They all projected him to be a reliever. It's possible that he could become a starter. But based off of those reports, along with his injury, I understand completely why Bloom backed down from that trade.

 

Bloom could have asked for pitching from the Dodgers, and I'm guessing he did, but Friedman is no idiot either.

[Kimmi]

To state the obvious: Many are surprised that the Red Sox did not land a pitcher in the Mookie Betts trade.

 

I was surprised that the Sox did not land a pitcher. However, I'm guessing that the FO did pursue pitching, but deemed Downs to be the best player that they could get. In trades like this, as with in drafts, the team should try to get the best player rather than trying to fill a position of need.

[Bellhorn04]

To state the obvious: Many are surprised that the Red Sox did not land a pitcher in the Mookie Betts trade.

 

Many don't know what they're talking about, of course.

 

All that matters is the total value.

[notin]

Many don't know what they're talking about, of course.

 

All that matters is the total value.

 

I’m a good example.

 

I wanted a pitcher back, but there is probably a good reason why I wasn’t invited to the negotiations....

[mvp 78]

Many don't know what they're talking about, of course.

 

All that matters is the total value.

 

Sox had many holes in the farm. Holding out for one particular need to get a lesser return would be dumb.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Sox had many holes in the farm. Holding out for one particular need to get a lesser return would be dumb.

 

Count me as dumb then, because I wasn't surprised but am still aggravated Bloom couldn't get one Dodger arm for a Hall of Famer -- who again leads the MLB in WAR this year. Of course, I'll always feel the return would've been better had Boston not insisted on LA taking Price in the deal.

 

For a franchise that has had trouble drafting and developing starting pitching this entire century -- granted, two whole decades so far -- right now I'd take the best pitcher available, even over a position player with higher "value" (which is just projections based on someone's numerical system anyway)...

 

... because the Red Sox have many holes, but the most glaring continue to be the ones that make up 75% of a baseball team (based on the old adage).

[mvp 78]

Count me as dumb then, because I wasn't surprised but am still aggravated Bloom couldn't get one Dodger arm for a Hall of Famer -- who again leads the MLB in WAR this year. Of course, I'll always feel the return would've been better had Boston not insisted on LA taking Price in the deal.

 

For a franchise that has had trouble drafting and developing starting pitching this entire century -- granted, two whole decades so far -- right now I'd take the best pitcher available, even over a position player with higher "value" (which is just projections based on someone's numerical system anyway)...

 

... because the Red Sox have many holes, but the most glaring continue to be the ones that make up 75% of a baseball team (based on the old adage).

 

1 year of Mookie for multiple years of Verdugo would have been a fair trade.

 

They originally wanted Brusdar from the Dodgers, but backed off him after seeing his medical records.

 

If the best they could get was Wong and Downs, I don't see how people could complain.

 

Mookie wasn't coming back here next season. He would have been wasted on this team and lots of people would be on here screaming that the Sox should have traded them when they had the chance.

[Bellhorn04]

1 year of Mookie for multiple years of Verdugo would have been a fair trade.

 

They originally wanted Brusdar from the Dodgers, but backed off him after seeing his medical records.

 

If the best they could get was Wong and Downs, I don't see how people could complain.

 

Mookie wasn't coming back here next season. He would have been wasted on this team and lots of people would be on here screaming that the Sox should have traded them when they had the chance.

 

Screaming quite loudly, yes indeed.