A Realistic View at 2020: Part II

[mvp 78]

OTOH handing out big deals to 33 year old DH's isn't as popular as it once was.

 

What DH gets 3 year deals now?

[Bellhorn04]

What DH gets 3 year deals now?

 

The guys who even admit they're DH's now are an endangered species.

[jacksonianmarch]

McHugh signed for a base salary of 600K, with options to reach 4.25M based on production and service time.

 

Just read that McHugh had tenex to break up scar tissue in his elbow. This is a smart signing, but you shouldn't hold your breath.

[mvp 78]

Just read that McHugh had tenex to break up scar tissue in his elbow. This is a smart signing, but you shouldn't hold your breath.

 

At worst, it’s a 600k lottery ticket. Not bad IMO.

[Larry Cook]

Does mchugh’s signing mean we are passing on buchholz?

[mvp 78]

Does mchugh’s signing mean we are passing on buchholz?

 

No. McHugh isn’t ready right now.

[notin]

Does mchugh’s signing mean we are passing on buchholz?

 

Buchholz’ non-signing seems to indicate the Sox are passing on Buchholz...

[a700hitter]

White Sox extend Moncada

 

Brewers extend Yelich

 

Red Sox trade Betts.

[mvp 78]

White Sox extend Moncada

 

Brewers extend Yelich

 

Red Sox trade Betts.

 

Because Betts "only cares about himself."

[notin]

White Sox extend Moncada

 

Brewers extend Yelich

 

Red Sox trade Betts.

 

Sox did extend Bogaerts.

 

Betts was just not as open. The Sox offered him a better deal than Yelich got...

[a700hitter]

Sox did extend Bogaerts.

 

Betts was just not as open. The Sox offered him a better deal than Yelich got...

The reasons are not relevant to me.

[Bellhorn04]

The reasons are not relevant to me.

 

That's classic!

[mvp 78]

Last chance to sign Puig.

 

Yanks may go grab him now that Judge is out with a broken rib.

[Swiharts Ghost]

White Sox extend Moncada

 

Brewers extend Yelich

 

Red Sox trade Betts.

Maybe they can extend Devers ? Maybe Mookie only has two teams bidding on him next winter ? Does LA really want to Pay Bellinger 300 million and Mookie 380 plus ? Doubt it .Maybe Mookie overplayed his hand on this .

Edited March 6, 2020 by Swiharts Ghost

[Swiharts Ghost]

Last chance to sign Puig.

 

Yanks may go grab him now that Judge is out with a broken rib.

 

Great point .I really hope this happens for him and us .Brings excitement back to the team .

[mvp 78]

Maybe they can extend Devers ? Maybe Mookie only has two teams bidding on him next winter ? Does LA really want to Pay Bellinger 300 million and Mookie 380 plus ? Doubt it .Maybe Mookie overplayed his hand on this .

 

Devers has said Sox haven’t asked for extension

[Larry Cook]

Devers has said Sox haven’t asked for extension

 

I can not believe we are not trying to lock this kid up long term right now.

 

Should we try to lock up Vazquez long term as well?

[moonslav59]

I can not believe we are not trying to lock this kid up long term right now.

 

Should we try to lock up Vazquez long term as well?

 

Maybe we are or have tried hard to lock Devers up.

 

Vaz has 2 years of control left to go. He's been up and down almost exactly from year to year. I don't see any hurry with him.

[a700hitter]

Devers has said Sox haven’t asked for extension

Henry is in austerity mode.

[Larry Cook]

Maybe we are or have tried hard to lock Devers up.

 

Vaz has 2 years of control left to go. He's been up and down almost exactly from year to year. I don't see any hurry with him.

 

Catchers are really hard to find, he calls a decent game and his framing is at least average. Pitchers seem to like throwing to him.

 

The bat is what seems to vary year to year, but he has a little pop.

 

He seems like a nice investment as long as hang’em Chaim does not overpay!

[moonslav59]

Catchers are really hard to find, he calls a decent game and his framing is at least average. Pitchers seem to like throwing to him.

 

The bat is what seems to vary year to year, but he has a little pop.

 

He seems like a nice investment as long as hang’em Chaim does not overpay!

 

He "calls"a crappy game. His CERA sucks vs Leon's.

 

His bat has been great (for a catcher) and s***** from year to year.

 

(I would love to see us trade Chavis for Campusano, Myers and $30M.)

[jacksonianmarch]

Catchers also fall off the map sooner than other positions. I am surprised Bloom hasn't maximized value here and dealt him off. I have a feeling 2019 is going to be a career year for Vaz. His value right now with two years of cheap control is pretty high.

[notin]

Catchers also fall off the map sooner than other positions. I am surprised Bloom hasn't maximized value here and dealt him off. I have a feeling 2019 is going to be a career year for Vaz. His value right now with two years of cheap control is pretty high.

 

 

It will be a career year if the Manfred Missile is still being used.

 

Vaz has had one decent year at the plate. He’s never had an OPS of .800 and been above .700 as many times as he’s been below .600.

 

I like him as a defensive catcher, but defensive catchers who can’t hit are plentiful. And Vaz doesn’t really hit.

 

I think the main reason Bloom hasn’t traded him is the demand might not be what many think it is...

[moonslav59]

Catchers also fall off the map sooner than other positions. I am surprised Bloom hasn't maximized value here and dealt him off. I have a feeling 2019 is going to be a career year for Vaz. His value right now with two years of cheap control is pretty high.

 

I don't disagree, but we need a good young catcher- maybe before trading him. Wong projects to be a catcher or maybe 1B/LF with the ability to be a team's emergency 3rd catcher.

 

Vaz may do well framing pitches, but he has a very weak record getting the best out of the team's best SP'ers. That is worrisome, and it decreases his value more than many may think it does. While CERA is a flawed stat, it is useful in comparing catchers on the same team through the same time periods. The IP with each catcher, on the Sox however, are often too far apart to really judge well.

 

Here are some eye-opening numbers:

ERA/OPS against -Pitcher- career IP (all catchers listed with 74+ IP)

 

Sale with each catcher:

2.51/.622 AJ Pierzynski 226

2.79/.575 Sandy Leon 436

2.98/.632 D Navarro 97

3.02/.616 T Flowers 552

3.36/.725 J Phegley 88

3.53/.680 Alex Avila 112

4.61/.763 C Vazquez 84

(While his IP are lower, his numbers are frightenly bad, here. It's no wonder Leon was Sale's binky.)

 

Price

2.30/.555 R Martin 74

2.67/.599 A Avila 111

2.78/.691 J McCann 107

2.85/.634 J Molina 473

2.96/.647 S Leon 204

3.06/.616 J Jaso 191

3.09/.661 Navarro 128

3.61/.705 Schoppach 162

4.27/.738 Vazquez 360

(Some of the catchers above Vaz are not known for defense or handling pitchers well.)

 

Porcello

4.17/.735 Avila 578

4.19/.728 Leon 576

4.32/296 Laird 296

4.93/.800 Swihart 122

4.96/.794 Vazquez 211

5.38/.831 Holaday 82

(Notice how the best CERAs relate to the most IP almost exactly, here. Even Swihart did slightly better than Vaz!)

 

Rodriguez

3.98/.711 Vazquez 456

4.05/.700 Leon 118

4.44/.692 Swihart 75

(Both Swihart and Leon got better OPS against than Vaz. It doesn't look like ERod cares who his catcher is.)

 

Buchholz

2.83/.642 VMart 241

3.01/.646 Leon 155

3.23/.622 Shoppach 78

3.95/.737 Salty 207

4.44/.705 Vazquez 130

5.12/.801 VTek 118

 

Wright

2.94/.611 Hanigan 95

3.49/.700 Vazquez 101

 

Pomeranz

1.99/.542 Norris

3.92/.745 Vazquez 198

 

To be fair, Vaz did do slightly better (Barnes) and even much better (Kelly & Workman)with certain RP'ers. He did much worse with Hembree, but the sample sizes are pretty small for some catchers with each RP'er.

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

Worth noting, though, that Cora showed a lot of confidence in Vazquez, particularly in the 2018 title run.

[Bellhorn04]

Also, Leon's magic really seemed to wear off last year.

[moonslav59]

If you believe the CERA numbers mean anything, these differentials are shocking:

 

Sale

1.82 better CERA with Leon

.188 better OPS against

How much does 2 more runs per 9 IP hurt his value? (note: 84 IP is kinda small.)

 

Price

1.31 better CERA with Leon

.091 better OPS against

How much is a run and a half hurt? (Both have fair sample sizes).

 

Porcello

0.77 better CERA with Leon

.066 better OPS against

(Both had 200+ IP with Rick.)

 

Buchholz

1.43 better CERA with Leon

.059 better OPS against

 

ERod is the only pitcher Vaz did better with on CERA, but his OPS against was worse than Leon & Swihart! There is not SP'er with significant IP'd with 2or more Sox catchers where Vaz has a better CERA and OPS against with.

 

Leon has a better CERA and OPS against vs Vaz with 4 out of 5 (splits the 5th)

Swihart splits in CERA and OPS against vs Vaz with the 2 starters they both qualified with (74+ IP)

 

[mvp 78]

Small Sample Size

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Also, Leon's magic really seemed to wear off last year.

 

No potions or magic beans could've helped that staff, up on cripple creek without a paddle. But I do recall a lot of mocking here when Boston brought back Leon (and when the Sox gave up on Swihart, a below average MLB catcher).

 

However, I think the connection and comfort level of a battery -- at any level -- is underrated by spectators. Sandy Leon made important contributions to three straight first place teams, including a title in '18 when his batting average was .177 (a bat is really the last thing anyone on a ballclub cares about for a backstop, which is why I always scoff whenever sportswriters automatically call Gary Sanchez the top AL catcher; ask Yankee fans who know baseball what they really think of him).

[moonslav59]

No potions or magic beans could've helped that staff, up on cripple creek without a paddle. But I do recall a lot of mocking here when Boston brought back Leon (and when the Sox gave up on Swihart, a below average MLB catcher).

 

However, I think the connection and comfort level of a battery -- at any level -- is underrated by spectators. Sandy Leon made important contributions to three straight first place teams, including a title in '18 when his batting average was .177 (a bat is really the last thing anyone on a ballclub cares about for a backstop, which is why I always scoff whenever sportswriters automatically call Gary Sanchez the top AL catcher; ask Yankee fans who know baseball what they really think of him).

 

No mockery from me.

 

Sandy was an overall plus for this team.