Sox still negotiating for Myers

[notin]

Going to have to score a lot of runs with this pitching staff .I think adding a Puig and putting JBJ as the most expensive late inning Defensively replacement may not be practical but not my money .JBJ should have been traded years ago .

 

Why bench Bradley and play Pillar?

[notin]

I keep thinking they signed him to an extension, but that was Longoria.

 

No. He dealt him to San Diego in a trade that sent Trea Turner and Joe Ross to Washington...

[moonslav59]

Going to have to score a lot of runs with this pitching staff .I think adding a Puig and putting JBJ as the most expensive late inning Defensively replacement may not be practical but not my money .JBJ should have been traded years ago .

 

If your weakness is pitching, I think it's counterproductive to use your last available resources on hitting.

[mvp 78]

No. He dealt him to San Diego in a trade that sent Trea Turner and Joe Ross to Washington...

 

Yes, I misremembered.

[mvp 78]

Why bench Bradley and play Pillar?

 

Pillar = dirty doggy woof woof

JBJ = not dirty doggy bow wow

[notin]

If your weakness is pitching, I think it's counterproductive to use your last available resources on hitting.

 

 

Let’s not pretend this team’s lineup is a fearsome strength.

 

After the top 4 hitters, you have 5 guys battling to bat ninth. Take your improvements where they’re available.

 

Puig 2020!!

[moonslav59]

Let’s not pretend this team’s lineup is a fearsome strength.

 

After the top 4 hitters, you have 5 guys battling to bat ninth. Take your improvements where they’re available.

 

Puig 2020!!

 

I've always been from the school of wanting to improve pitching, even if it's not a weak link.

 

It is, now.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I've always been from the school of wanting to improve pitching, even if it's not a weak link.

 

It is, now.

 

It's not a weak link; it's a giant gap in the chain-link fence... the hole is getting big enough for sheep, cows, and even fans who don't do the wave or sing "sogood, sogood" to escape -- look, there's a path to the beach, there's another to the pool (just don't take the one to the left, to the kids' soccer game)!

[FredLynn]

I've always been from the school of wanting to improve pitching, even if it's not a weak link.

 

It is, now.

 

This whole team is a weak link.

How many games will they win this year?

My guess is 65-70.

[mvp 78]

This whole team is a weak link.

How many games will they win this year?

My guess is 65-70.

There’s a poll for that.

[notin]

I've always been from the school of wanting to improve pitching, even if it's not a weak link.

 

It is, now.

 

I’m ok with improving pitching. How?

 

And why ignore offense just because pitching is a bigger need?

[moonslav59]

This whole team is a weak link.

How many games will they win this year?

My guess is 65-70.

 

My point was about wanting to improve pitching- maybe not just for 2020 but beyond, even when pitching isn't a weakness.

 

Pitching is a big weakness right now, so it should be our primary priority.

 

That's not to say that if a deal falls in our lap that improves a non pitching area, we shouldn't do it, but with such limited financial and prospects available to upgrade any area, the focus needs to be, IMO, on pitching ONLY.

[Bellhorn04]

I’m ok with improving pitching. How?

 

And why ignore offense just because pitching is a bigger need?

 

Prioritization of spending?

[moonslav59]

I’m ok with improving pitching. How?

 

And why ignore offense just because pitching is a bigger need?

 

Our offense is way better than our pitching. We will lose way more games because of our starters and our pen than lack of hitting.

 

Yes, we could improve a few slots on offense, but we have massive holes (yes plural) in our rotation and pen.

 

Rotation: With Sale and Eovaldi's health histories or recent troubles, we could be looking at 2-3 slots to fill, and I'm not just talking 2020. I'm thinking we need to look at finding a way to get a decent SP'er under team control beyond 2020 and hopefull beyond 2021 as well. I realize that is not as easy as picking up a decent 2Bman, but we did just acquire Downs,so I don't see 2B as a bigger need than SP'er- not even close.

 

Pen: We have seen our pen over achieve the last few year than what was expected on paper. I've been a huge Workman fan, but I'm not sure he's going to do as well as 2019. Barnes declines, last year, for the first time in his career. Hembree has health issues. Walden seems to be pulling decency out of his ass, but maybe he'll continue doing well. Taylor looked very good last year, but are we really going to count on a repeat? DHern has enormous potential, but needs time to harness it. I don't think anyone counts on our pen as being top 10 or even top 15 in MLB.

 

Other "weak links" in non pitching areas? Here's how I rank them:

 

1. 2B Pedey is toast- scratch him off even the miracle list. We do have a lot of options here. Granted, none look great, but a few show promise and we now have Downs for the long term future.

(Pedey)

Chavis

Peraza

Lin

Arauz

Marco

Chatham

Downs

 

2. Catcher: I don't see this as an area of big need.I am worried about Vaz's inconsistency at the plate and how almost every SP'er, except ERod does much worse with him than they did with Leon, but I seriously doubt we are even looking to use valuable resources to upgrade here.

Vaz

Plawecki

Lucroy

Centeno

Wong

 

CF/OF: Our OF depth is weak- no doubt, and with Verdugo's health an issue, and the need to keep JD at DH as much as possible, I can see wanting to sign Puig, but I'd rather save the money for a deadline trade for a pitcher under team control for 2+ years.

Benintendi

Verdugo

JBJ

Pillar

(JD Martinez- DH)

Puello

Lin

Moreland (emergency)

Duran

Jimenez

Castillo (lux budget issue)

Longhi

Andreoli

Sturgeon

 

1B: We can find serviceable 1Bmen for a dime a dozen, especially at the deadline.

Moreland

Chavis

Dalbec

Ockimey (could be a decent platoon)

Witte

Casas (far away)

 

We are not upgrading SS or 3B.

 

[notin]

Our offense is way better than our pitching. We will lose way more games because of our starters and our pen than lack of hitting.

 

Yes, we could improve a few slots on offense, but we have massive holes (yes plural) in our rotation and pen.

 

Rotation: With Sale and Eovaldi's health histories or recent troubles, we could be looking at 2-3 slots to fill, and I'm not just talking 2020. I'm thinking we need to look at finding a way to get a decent SP'er under team control beyond 2020 and hopefull beyond 2021 as well. I realize that is not as easy as picking up a decent 2Bman, but we did just acquire Downs,so I don't see 2B as a bigger need than SP'er- not even close.

 

Pen: We have seen our pen over achieve the last few year than what was expected on paper. I've been a huge Workman fan, but I'm not sure he's going to do as well as 2019. Barnes declines, last year, for the first time in his career. Hembree has health issues. Walden seems to be pulling decency out of his ass, but maybe he'll continue doing well. Taylor looked very good last year, but are we really going to count on a repeat? DHern has enormous potential, but needs time to harness it. I don't think anyone counts on our pen as being top 10 or even top 15 in MLB.

 

Other "weak links" in non pitching areas? Here's how I rank them:

 

1. 2B Pedey is toast- scratch him off even the miracle list. We do have a lot of options here. Granted, none look great, but a few show promise and we now have Downs for the long term future.

(Pedey)

Chavis

Peraza

Lin

Arauz

Marco

Chatham

Downs

 

2. Catcher: I don't see this as an area of big need.I am worried about Vaz's inconsistency at the plate and how almost every SP'er, except ERod does much worse with him than they did with Leon, but I seriously doubt we are even looking to use valuable resources to upgrade here.

Vaz

Plawecki

Lucroy

Centeno

Wong

 

CF/OF: Our OF depth is weak- no doubt, and with Verdugo's health an issue, and the need to keep JD at DH as much as possible, I can see wanting to sign Puig, but I'd rather save the money for a deadline trade for a pitcher under team control for 2+ years.

Benintendi

Verdugo

JBJ

Pillar

(JD Martinez- DH)

Puello

Lin

Moreland (emergency)

Duran

Jimenez

Castillo (lux budget issue)

Longhi

Andreoli

Sturgeon

 

1B: We can find serviceable 1Bmen for a dime a dozen, especially at the deadline.

Moreland

Chavis

Dalbec

Ockimey (could be a decent platoon)

Witte

Casas (far away)

 

We are not upgrading SS or 3B.

 

 

I don’t think getting controllable pitchers at the deadline is likely. What do the Sox have to deal for one? Their biggest trade commodities then will be Workman and Barnes. And I don’t expect much for Workman.

 

If the whole notion is “we should trade for these pieces,” trade what? If nothing else, Puig gives another potential trade deadline piece...

Edited March 8, 2020 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

And I don’t expect much for Workman...

 

Why not?

[notin]

Why not?

 

 

Until last year, his career has been unspectacular. And I’m not sure which Workman will show up this year...

[Bellhorn04]

Until last year, his career has been unspectacular. And I’m not sure which Workman will show up this year...

 

What if he does post similar numbers though?

[jacksonianmarch]

Workman is a guy I GUARANTEE Bloom has already shopped. My guess is he wants an elite closer's return and other teams want him to show more than a year of dominance. If Workman comes out of the gate hot and the sox sell off continues, he will definitely be moved

[moonslav59]

I don’t think getting controllable pitchers at the deadline is likely. What do the Sox have to deal for one? Their biggest trade commodities then will be Workman and Barnes. And I don’t expect much for Workman.

 

If the whole notion is “we should trade for these pieces,” trade what? If nothing else, Puig gives another potential trade deadline piece...

 

We could trade Chavis or Dalbec and a picther for a better pitcher. I'm not talking blockbuster. I'm talking about slowly building up the pitching staff with decent pitchers who have 2+ years of team control. Maybe trade Workman, Barnes or Hembree (Moreland?) to a contender for a pitching prospect. If Eovaldi is doing well, we could trade him for younger pitching.

[moonslav59]

I don’t think getting controllable pitchers at the deadline is likely. What do the Sox have to deal for one? Their biggest trade commodities then will be Workman and Barnes. And I don’t expect much for Workman.

 

If the whole notion is “we should trade for these pieces,” trade what? If nothing else, Puig gives another potential trade deadline piece...

 

I'm not fully against signing Puig, but his contract will limit what we can pick up at the deadline.

[notin]

What if he does post similar numbers though?

 

 

Is this really a mystery?

[notin]

I'm not fully against signing Puig, but his contract will limit what we can pick up at the deadline.

 

Not necessarily.

 

1. He might be traded himself. And even if he isn’t, someone making money would be headed out. I mean, we are assuming “sellers” here, right?

 

2. I’m expecting cheaper players coming back who have minimal impact on CBA limits...

[moonslav59]

Until last year, his career has been unspectacular. And I’m not sure which Workman will show up this year...

 

Mostly due to injuries.

 

His career numbers are brought down by that horrific 2014 season (1-10 5.17/1.452 WHIP). That was long ago. He missed 2016 and parts of other seasons, but the two seasons prior to 2019, he was decent:

 

7-2 3.22 in 81 IP(1.210 WHIP) 8.2 K/9 and 3.0 BB/9

 

If he could bring his BB/9 rate down, 5.7 in 2019, he could be great.

 

He only allowed 3.6 H per 9 IP last year (7.4 career)!

He had a 0.1 HR/9 rate (1 HR in 71.2 IP)!

[notin]

Workman is a guy I GUARANTEE Bloom has already shopped. My guess is he wants an elite closer's return and other teams want him to show more than a year of dominance. If Workman comes out of the gate hot and the sox sell off continues, he will definitely be moved

 

I’d say it’s possible. But I don’t think other GMs fawn over the closer role the way a lot of fans do. And Bloom would have an idea, since he talks to those guys.

 

We’re in an age of advanced metrics. And “saves” are just not one. Workman has a good year, but it’s probably tougher than we expect getting anyone to buy in on this as anything more than an outlier.

 

I don’t pretend to know what Bloom is asking for...

[notin]

Mostly due to injuries.

 

His career numbers are brought down by that horrific 2014 season (1-10 5.17/1.452 WHIP). That was long ago. He missed 2016 and parts of other seasons, but the two seasons prior to 2019, he was decent:

 

7-2 3.22 in 81 IP(1.210 WHIP) 8.2 K/9 and 3.0 BB/9

 

If he could bring his BB/9 rate down, 5.7 in 2019, he could be great.

 

He only allowed 3.6 H per 9 IP last year (7.4 career)!

He had a 0.1 HR/9 rate (1 HR in 71.2 IP)!

 

 

That his subpar years were due to injuries is NOT a selling point. In fact, it really makes him less appealing...

[moonslav59]

Workman's 2017-2019 numbers:

 

17-3 2.59 (153 IP)

1.127 WHIP

5.9 H/9

0.8 HR/9

4.2 BB/9

10.5 K/9

 

3.52 FIP

 

Craig Kimbrel 2017-2019

10-5 2.66 (152 IP)

0.934 WHIP

5.0 H/9

1.3 HR/9

3.4 BB/9

14.9 K/9

 

3.02 FIP

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

That his subpar years were due to injuries is NOT a selling point. In fact, it really makes him less appealing...

 

His sub par years were long ago.

 

Yes, his injury history hurts his value. I never said otherwise.

 

His 2017 and 2018 seasons were not "sub par." He's been pretty healthy for 3 years in a row. I think that helps his value more than missing 2015 & 2016 with injuries and sucking in 2014 (maybe due to an injury).

 

IP (MLB & AAA)

68.2 2017 (4-1 1.55/ 1.000 in AAA in 29 IP)

71.1 2018 (2-1 3.90/ 0.867 in AAA in 30 IP)

71.2 2019 all MLB

 

[Bellhorn04]

I’d say it’s possible. But I don’t think other GMs fawn over the closer role the way a lot of fans do.

 

And as has been discussed here many times, Theo paid a staggering amount in talent for Chapman in 2016.

 

We also did pretty well trading Miller for E-Rod, and Miller wasn't even a closer.

[notin]

And as has been discussed here many times, Theo paid a staggering amount in talent for Chapman in 2016.

 

We also did pretty well trading Miller for E-Rod, and Miller wasn't even a closer.

 

Two non sequiturs.

 

It has been well established by everyone to ever cover MLB that relief pitchers traded in July are always the commodity most overpaid to acquire. Jacko’s comment about dealing Workman in the winter is a completely different case. And Miller, as a non-closer, is irrelevant in any conversation about how fans likely fawn over closers and saves more than GMs do..,