Mookie Betts and David Price have been traded to Dodgers

[jung]

Wow. Overpay by 3M!!!!!! Unbelievable.

 

They add up. We were ALWAYS overpaying under Cherries and DD until the day Henry says, "Hey we are not only over the lux tax. We are over two and three years running."

 

And this time, that was the end of that.

 

Be happy, we got a Championship out of it. WE OVERPAID for it. But we got it.

[Bellhorn04]

Sure it is. It’s just a matter of amounts.

 

"Just a matter of amounts" covers a lot of territory.

 

Speier calculated that re-setting this year could mean a difference of about $100 million over the 3 years 2020-2022.

[Bellhorn04]

No matter how we slice it, IMO, Mookie should've been priority #1 over anyone else on this roster. I love Xander and Sale, but Mookie should've been prioritized first.

 

Xander got 120 million.

 

Mookie wants that, plus an extra 300 million tossed in.

[notin]

Xander got 120 million.

 

Mookie wants that, plus an extra 300 million tossed in.

 

Now THERE is a distinction without a difference....

[tom-uk]

I'd do the same if I was Henry, but I am worried about getting an OF who is known for a lack of effort. Big problem in Boston.

 

Mookie wanted 12/400 supposedly. No thanks. We got to see a generational player in his prime. I'll take that. A 2020 title looked unlikely w Mookie anyway.

 

The biggest issue remains. The procurement and development of pitching needs addressing. This issue directly caused many of the poor decisions management has made.

 

Is it always wise to pay for an expensive superstar..harper, trout, pujols, mookie. One knee, shoulder, or wrist injury away from mediocrity? Not to mention father time.

[notin]

As we all know, the league rankings of players goes Trout-Edwin Diaz-everyone else.

 

Well Diaz was the best in his game at his position and he was tossed into a salary dump...

[sk7326]

I'd do the same if I was Henry, but I am worried about getting an OF who is known for a lack of effort. Big problem in Boston.

 

Mookie wanted 12/400 supposedly. No thanks. We got to see a generational player in his prime. I'll take that. A 2020 title looked unlikely w Mookie anyway.

 

The biggest issue remains. The procurement and development of pitching needs addressing. This issue directly caused many of the poor decisions management has made.

 

Is it always wise to pay for an expensive superstar..harper, trout, pujols, mookie. One knee, shoulder, or wrist injury away from mediocrity? Not to mention father time.

 

They had one great asset to help the procurement of pitching and chose to use it as a sweetener to sell half of David Price's contract.

[sk7326]

Well Diaz was the best in his game at his position and he was tossed into a salary dump...

 

Not a comparison. Betts was arguably the best player in the league not named Mike Trout. Edwin Diaz was a good player at an unessential position. Players of Mookie's ilk are people you build around.

[Bellhorn04]

They had one great asset to help the procurement of pitching and chose to use it as a sweetener to sell half of David Price's contract.

 

What pitcher(s) did you expect Mookie to bring back in a trade?

[fxkatt]

Bill Belichick has traded away a dozen stars (esp over contract demands) but because of his SUCCESS, no one bats an eye. Easy to pick on the new gatekeeper, too.

 

Also, all fans are most in love with a player right after his being traded... that's when the regret thing suddenly comes into play full force.

[mvp 78]

"Just a matter of amounts" covers a lot of territory.

 

Speier calculated that re-setting this year could mean a difference of about $100 million over the 3 years 2020-2022.

 

Don’t care. Want Mookie back.

[notin]

Not a comparison. Betts was arguably the best player in the league not named Mike Trout. Edwin Diaz was a good player at an unessential position. Players of Mookie's ilk are people you build around.

 

Well the options were 1) deal him for what you can get or 2) keep him, hope to make up the 18 game division deficit somewhere else, and then lose him for a draft pick.

[Kimmi]

Of course he has spent money. But right now, he traded a superstar in his prime for a steep discount for non-baseball reasons. And the move can, and should be criticized on that front. Similarly, the sudden whiplash need to cut payroll after greenlighting big money extensions just months earlier deserves criticism.

 

Mookie Betts was the team's best hope to replenish some of its high ceiling organizational depth, especially in pitching. This trade way did not do that. Considering the $$ they ask of fans - it's unseemly at best.

 

Henry lost his way after the back to back last place finishes. He really did. He did an about face pretty much everything he believed in since he became the Sox owner. IMO, he is now trying to get back to his previous ways, hence the sudden whiplash.

 

I don't think the return for Mookie constitutes a steep discount, not after considering the years of control we are getting in the two players.

 

The mistake, IMO, was including Price as nothing more than a salary dump.

[Kimmi]

this is why i believe JH will outbid everyone next offseason. but he absolutely had to reset the LT in order to do it.

 

I really, really hope that the Sox do not outbid everyone next offseason.

 

It kind of defeats the purpose.

[a700hitter]

Henry lost his way after the back to back last place finishes. He really did. He did an about face pretty much everything he believed in since he became the Sox owner. IMO, he is now trying to get back to his previous ways, hence the sudden whiplash.

 

I don't think the return for Mookie constitutes a steep discount, not after considering the years of control we are getting in the two players.

 

The mistake, IMO, was including Price as nothing more than a salary dump.

Without half-price Price, we don't get that return. You can't separate the two. Price was not thrown in for nothing. If he was thrown in for the full $31 million that would have been true, but not at half price.

[Kimmi]

No matter how we slice it, IMO, Mookie should've been priority #1 over anyone else on this roster. I love Xander and Sale, but Mookie should've been prioritized first.

 

Not when he's demanding as much money as he is.

 

It is very difficult to tie that much money up into one player and sustain a winning team. I know Henry can afford it, but that doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do.

[Kimmi]

Without half-price Price, we don't get that return. You can't separate the two. Price was not thrown in for nothing. If he was thrown in for the full $31 million that would have been true, but not at half price.

 

I actually think that without half-price Price, the return would have been a little bit better.

[TylerD]

Not when he's demanding as much money as he is.

 

It is very difficult to tie that much money up into one player and sustain a winning team. I know Henry can afford it, but that doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do.

 

Not to mention he wanted a 12 year contract, he would be 39...... What are the chances a player keeps up his type of play for 12 years? Maybe.... but it's still a HUGE gamble.... It's not like we left empty handed either. Apparently Alex Verdugo is very very good.

[Kimmi]

I am reading a lot of negative comments about the trade. I understand the anger/frustration of losing Betts.

 

That said, the point of trading Betts was to improve the long-term outlook of the team, something that was needed after the Dombrowski years. In that regard, this trade is a big plus.

 

IMO, Verdugo in place of Mookie would have kept the Sox in contention in 2020. Also losing Price, however, is a different story. Our pitching depth was already paper thin. It remains to be seen what other moves Bloom might make though.

[Kimmi]

Not to mention he wanted a 12 year contract, he would be 39...... What are the chances a player keeps up his type of play for 12 years? Maybe.... but it's still a HUGE gamble.... It's not like we left empty handed either. Apparently Alex Verdugo is very very good.

 

I would not pay Mookie that amount.

 

I am good with the return that we got.

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I'm more upset about losing one of our starting pitchers.

[Bellhorn04]

I would not pay Mookie that amount.

 

I am good with the return that we got.

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I'm more upset about losing one of our starting pitchers.

 

I'm not upset about any of it, so I'm REALLY in the minority.

[Kimmi]

Somebody's tweet, though I can't recall whose:

 

Red Sox went from 48.6 to 43.3 projected WAR. After the 3 projected division winners it goes Angels and then the Sox and Rays tied. Sox have work to do and money to play with. LA's moves tonight made them go from 50.7 projected WAR to 52.6

 

So, even with Mookie being traded, we are projected to be in the wildcard race. With money to play with.

 

One of Bloom's areas of strength supposedly will come with upcoming trades and tweaks throughout the season.

[Elktonnick]

Now THERE is a distinction without a difference....

 

Wrong again that is both a distinction and a difference.

[a700hitter]

I actually think that without half-price Price, the return would have been a little bit better.

I disagree with that.

[Kimmi]

I'm not upset about any of it, so I'm REALLY in the minority.

 

I am not willing to throw this season away. There is too much talent on the team to do so. Starting pitching, already our biggest area of weakness, was made even weaker by trading Price.

 

I bet there is a move for a starting pitcher in our near future. Clay Buchholz anyone?

[jung]

No matter how we slice it, IMO, Mookie should've been priority #1 over anyone else on this roster. I love Xander and Sale, but Mookie should've been prioritized first.

 

I would not give up that X contract for anything. X clearly wanted more than anything to not have contract negotiations hanging over his head. What did X think would happen when he went to the Sox instead of the other way around.

 

Plus, the Sox have a huge budding star in Rafi and you really need X out there to get the most out of Rafi.

 

Sox HAD to do the X deal. That was the deal that they simply had to do.

 

The Sale deal was the deal they should have avoided and they should have let Eovaldi go at his price. I wanted Eovaldi but not at that price as there is simply no way to convince me we ever get a full season nor even close to one out of Eovaldi. Still and all with no farm system to speak of, no pieces to bring up that could fill out a MLB uni at league minimum who the heck are we kidding.

 

The attraction to Bloom might well be the likelihood that he can rebuild that mess we have down on the farm because you cannot realistically expect to challenge for Championships when everybody knows you have nobody you can bring up and pay league minimum to fill out a MLB uni. Then you not only get bent over for prime players, you get bent over for middling players.

 

Where is our next X, JBJ or Workman or Wright? Where is our next Rafi or anything that remotely resembles Mookie or even Beni for that matter? 2018 was Betts first $10M payday. Whoopdie ding-dong....That was sure a ton of money for Mookie Betts. Are we going to deny that players like that were critical elements to both the 2013 and 2018 Championships being paid at or close to league minimum at the time?

 

Am I wrong or is the monster player that is Tzu-Wie Lin going to start the year on our 25 man roster!!!!!!!

Edited February 5, 2020 by jung

[moonslav59]

Henry lost his way after the back to back last place finishes. He really did. He did an about face pretty much everything he believed in since he became the Sox owner. IMO, he is now trying to get back to his previous ways, hence the sudden whiplash.

 

I don't think the return for Mookie constitutes a steep discount, not after considering the years of control we are getting in the two players.

 

The mistake, IMO, was including Price as nothing more than a salary dump.

 

I think Price got us the prospect and the salary relief, but maybe we get a prospect without Price.

 

I think we demanded the Dodgers take Price, and the delay was either about how much we pay or what prospect we get.

 

Just my opinion. Maybe we'll find out what really happened at some point.

[moonslav59]

I'm not upset about any of it, so I'm REALLY in the minority.

 

I'm sad we lost Betts but not angry at all.

 

I'm happy we got back 2 players and saved $15M off the lux tax each of the next 3 years. That can get us a lot, especially if Bloom is able to do his magic with low cost deals.

[cp176]

Mookie is a great young player with one year and $27 price tag being traded to a team positioned to win it all this year. The Sox were not in that boat this year and took the step of resetting. Next year Mookie will be looking to maximizee his contract (can't blame him) and probably get around $35 mil for 12 years. The Dodgers will proobably be willing to make an offer of that magnitude as will other teams. I am not an advocate of giving such long term contracts as the RISK of underperformance or no performance after half of it is over is high.

 

Price is a servicable 3rd or 4th starter and the Dodgers only are coughing up $15 to $17 million/year for him so they got a reasonable deal.

 

The Sox get Verdago and a pitching prospect who may or may not hold down a starting spot. We also get the reset and some salary flexibility.

 

These moves make it highly unlikely that we can compete at the WS level this year and make it seem that other moves should be made to get younger for 2021. JBJ has been a top notch defensive center fielder with an inconsistent and weak bat. Trading him and installing younger would further enhannce out flexability. JDM, if he has a good year will opt out and if he doesn't, we will have an overpriced DH. Maybe he will be traded at the deadline.

 

I see improvements being made in the farm and the team getting stronger for 2021, with substantial cash available stemming from the reset. I prefer to be optimistic and Bloom has done what he was hired to do. We'll see where he goes from here.

 

I am glad that you and others feel that the right moves have been made and that you continue to be positive. I believe absolutely that it is an embarrassment for one of the wealthiest franchises and enterprises in general in the sports world today to make a move like this. I don't know what they should or could have done but but this particular deal is sickeningly one sided and a kick in the ass to Sox fans who pony up the money doing their part to support our billionaire owner and add to his coffers at their expense. Bloom did what he was instructed to do. He did his job.

[Kimmi]

I think Price got us the prospect and the salary relief, but maybe we get a prospect without Price.

 

I think we demanded the Dodgers take Price, and the delay was either about how much we pay or what prospect we get.

 

Just my opinion. Maybe we'll find out what really happened at some point.

 

I think by demanding the Dodgers take Price, we got less of a return for Mookie than we would have otherwise.