Pay Mookie!

[Maxbialystock]

I'll write up some picketing signs for all of us.

 

Actually, fans do vote via tv ratings and game attendance. It’s just a little harder for what amounts to a captive audience.

[oldmaninthevegasdesert]

Mookie might realize he is better than Mike Trout, but also think Mike Trout shortchanged himself and he does not want to make the same mistake...

 

step back from the crack pipe

[oldmaninthevegasdesert]

Careful with the "they." DD was the one willing to pay Eovaldi and Price and so convinced Henry they were essential for the "rebuild" or whatever he called it. DD has been summarily fired, so I think your use of "they" is in fact incorrect. Dumping DD and signing the Rays' GM is a pretty strong signal that exorbitant salaries are no longer de riguer.

 

And let's not forget how quickly Mookie made it to the big club. After the 2013 season when the Yankees "stole" Jacoby Ellsbury for $145M for 7 years. They were no doubt hoping Jacoby could replicate his "annus mirabilis" (2011) with that short porch in Yankees Stadium right field. Many Sox fans thought Ellsbury was also irreplaceable. However, the Sox already had one obvious CF, JBJ, and one possible, Mookie, both of whom arrived for good in 2014. Ellbury proved to be dead weight for the Yankees and one of many reasons why they now take a different approach.

 

Oh, and how do we know that Mookie's annus mirabilis (2018) wasn't the result of being told what pitch is coming? Anyone? Anyone?

 

Plus Mookie is just one guy in a lineup of 9, and even that even doesn't include the fact that pitching is so very important--last year there were times when the Sox carried 13 pitchers and 12 position players on their active roster. WAR stands for "Wins Above Replacement" and is more and more used as a player's yardstick. In 2018 Mookie's was was an MVP's 10.9. Last year it dropped down buy 4 to 6.8. If we assume WAR means what he says, that drop should have cost the Sox 4 games, but in fact they went from winning 108 games in 2018 to winning 84 games last year. One player does not a lineup or a team make.

 

This reminds of the very recent episode of Bryce Harper, who also demanded much more than a king's ransom from the Nationals--and got it from the Phillies. In 2018, the year before Bryce joined them, the Phillies went 80-82. In 2019, with Harper supposedly giving his all, the Phillies went 81-81. And the poor Nationals, who no longer had the estimable services of their super-great (according to his salary) RF? They won it all.

 

However, I checked the Phillies attendance for those two years and confirmed that attendance jumped almost 600,000 from 2018 to 2019--almost certainly because of the acquisition of Bryce Harper. Such a jump--or decrease--in attendance is unlikely for the Sox because of the size of Fenway combined with their overall success in the John Henry era.

 

$300M for 10 years is more than abundant recompense unless you or your agent thinks it's "all about how Mookie is valued in this firm."

 

I like it

[notin]

step back from the crack pipe

 

So you think Mookie doesn’t realize he’s not as good as Trout, but does think Trout is fairly paid, and that he (Mookie) deserves more?

 

Mookie wants more than Trout so far. So if you think the first thought is crazy, then this is the only other option...

[oldmaninthevegasdesert]

Hate to be the realist here, but if it has not dawned on you yet that Betts intends to test the market, just like Tom Brady is going to test the market, which in fact is going to give Mookie all the more incentive to test his market in his sport when he sees the hoopla created by another Boston sports icon. I would say the impending Brady free agency and the hysteria that will come from the New England base in the media are factoring into the trade talk we are hearing about now more in earnest. I do not believe he has ever intended to resign in Boston, and now he is holding a gun to managements head. Multi year contracts have ruined baseball, and out priced the average fan. Beyond 4 years for a contract is bad business, but then no one in this forum cares about money, because it is not their money. The bottom line in all this in "free market" ******** is that it is no such thing, if I was one of these billionaire owners I would hire me a army of lawyers and go after MLB and their communist " payroll tax". I am just waiting to see which set of suckers are going to help their 'league' implode by going on strike...my bet...the NFL...Oh yeah trade Mookie and get what you can get, because the alternative is getting nothing but draft picks and repeating the cycle. No loyalty in the game anymore

[oldmaninthevegasdesert]

So you think Mookie doesn’t realize he’s not as good as Trout, but does think Trout is fairly paid, and that he (Mookie) deserves more?

 

Mookie wants more than Trout so far. So if you think the first thought is crazy, then this is the only other option...

 

Sox are fools if they negotiate through talk radio, the writing is on the wall, Betts has already decided he will not be playing in Boston in 2021, take it to the bank, they have a window until opening day to move him for something halfway substantial, after that and up to the deadline they get diminishing returns. Is it fair? nope, the real problem is the communist "luxury tax".

[jad]

Sox are fools if they negotiate through talk radio, the writing is on the wall, Betts has already decided he will not be playing in Boston in 2021, take it to the bank, they have a window until opening day to move him for something halfway substantial, after that and up to the deadline they get diminishing returns. Is it fair? nope, the real problem is the communist "luxury tax".

 

Hey, youngster, since I doubt you're as old as me. No one uses the term "commie" or "communist" any more (well, except perhaps in reference to soccer).

[mvp 78]

Sox are fools if they negotiate through talk radio, the writing is on the wall, Betts has already decided he will not be playing in Boston in 2021, take it to the bank, they have a window until opening day to move him for something halfway substantial, after that and up to the deadline they get diminishing returns. Is it fair? nope, the real problem is the communist "luxury tax".

 

It’s more like corporate socialism, like JP Morgan and Ford.

[mvp 78]

Hey, youngster, since I doubt you're as old as me. No one uses the term "commie" or "communist" any more (well, except perhaps in reference to soccer).

 

Untrue. People still talk about communism now, just in a better light.

[oldtimer]

Hate to be the realist here, but if it has not dawned on you yet that Betts intends to test the market, just like Tom Brady is going to test the market, which in fact is going to give Mookie all the more incentive to test his market in his sport when he sees the hoopla created by another Boston sports icon. I would say the impending Brady free agency and the hysteria that will come from the New England base in the media are factoring into the trade talk we are hearing about now more in earnest. I do not believe he has ever intended to resign in Boston, and now he is holding a gun to managements head. Multi year contracts have ruined baseball, and out priced the average fan. Beyond 4 years for a contract is bad business, but then no one in this forum cares about money, because it is not their money. The bottom line in all this in "free market" ******** is that it is no such thing, if I was one of these billionaire owners I would hire me a army of lawyers and go after MLB and their communist " payroll tax". I am just waiting to see which set of suckers are going to help their 'league' implode by going on strike...my bet...the NFL...Oh yeah trade Mookie and get what you can get, because the alternative is getting nothing but draft picks and repeating the cycle. No loyalty in the game anymore

 

I have been an advocate of using a sliding scale to establish the length of contract offer for players based upon age. Younger field players get up to 8 years while players 30 to 31 get 5 years and over 32 3 years or less. Pitchers are a different category because the wear and tear of innings pitched seem to take a toll. We have seen this with Price with a 7 year contract. It is a rare pitcher who still is very effective at 35 years old. I would limit pitchers to 5 year contracts. Clearly, other teams will not and outbid the teams using a more conservative approach.

 

As far as salary offers, I would make a budget with star up the middle and first and 2nd tier starters at the top of the pyramid while other players would be paid according to value as a percentage of the total available payroll. I would make exceptions if there was a solid likelihood of playing for all the marbles but would normally try to stay at or below the competitive balance tax 1st tier ceiling. '

 

In the end, I believe this approach would field the most consistently competitive team. Teams that go out on a limb with long term and large contracts are bound to have a lot of off years as the realities of risk set in. Some of the advocates for going out on a limb will say, Yes, but we may win a world series by doing it and accept the crash that will follow. I just don't agree with that approach. Mookie at $35 Mil for 10 or more Coles big contract fall into the verly optimistic category in my book.

 

Now, if the competitive balance tax is trashed, the money is there to pay the players more, but then the lower budget teams would have reduce competitiveness so some leveling means is likely to remain.

[Slasher9]

Is it fair? nope, the real problem is the communist "luxury tax".

 

i dont believe communists pay tax tho? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Bellhorn04]

So you think Mookie doesn’t realize he’s not as good as Trout, but does think Trout is fairly paid, and that he (Mookie) deserves more?

 

Mookie wants more than Trout so far. So if you think the first thought is crazy, then this is the only other option...

 

You Magoo'd in post #35.

[notin]

You Magoo'd in post #35.

 

 

I see. I left out a strategically placed “not” that did alter the entire meaning. It is now fixed...

[Elktonnick]

Untrue. People still talk about communism now, just in a better light.

 

Not anyone who I've ever met who has lived under a communist regime and I have met a lot.

[mvp 78]

Not anyone who I've ever met who has lived under a communist regime and I have met a lot.

 

I'm sure you've met a ton.

[Elktonnick]

I'm sure you've met a ton.

 

Sure did!

[Slasher9]

what communist countries are left on the planet? china and cuba?

i've been to China. people seem happy. wuhan virus is certainly straining them right now.

i think that is it for commie countries...

[Elktonnick]

what communist countries are left on the planet? china and cuba?

i've been to China. people seem happy. wuhan virus is certainly straining them right now.

i think that is it for commie countries...

You are so young. Cuba and North Korea may be the only two left of old style communist regimes but there are millions of Eastern European s who remember the bad days when communist regimes were prevalent until about 1990.

[notin]

You are so young. Cuba and North Korea may be the only two left of old style communist regimes but there are millions of Eastern European s who remember the bad days when communist regimes were prevalent until about 1990.

 

And don't forget about Illinois...

[mvp 78]

Sure did!

 

I really believe you!

[mvp 78]

what communist countries are left on the planet? china and cuba?

i've been to China. people seem happy. wuhan virus is certainly straining them right now.

i think that is it for commie countries...

 

From what I've heard, the people who stayed in Cuba are happy. They'd just have a better life if the US didn't have an embargo with them and that's not Cuba's fault.

[Elktonnick]

From what I've heard, the people who stayed in Cuba are happy. They'd just have a better life if the US didn't have an embargo with them and that's not Cuba's fault.

Bill s***! Go spend some time in South Florida and talk to some Cubans especially those who have come over within the last few years. Talk to Venezuelans as well. Just visited with a Venezuelan friend yesterday. The situation there is awful.

[mvp 78]

Bill s***! Go spend some time in South Florida and talk to some Cubans especially those who have come over within the last few years. Talk to Venezuelans as well. Just visited with a Venezuelan friend yesterday. The situation there is awful.

 

News flash: people who left a country didn't like the country they stayed in, but the people who stayed behind were happy. My mind just melted!

 

How would the Venezuelan situation look if the US didn't intervene (attempted 2002 coup, sanctions, etc)?

 

The truth of the matter is that the US spends all it's time making sure that any government that is not strict capitalist will fail. Saying "oh, it didn't work in Venezuela" is silly because it doesn't note that the US is actively participating in making the economy bleed.

 

And that's all I have to say on the matter. I should have left it with, yes there are still communists. Some young people are into the idea.

[Elktonnick]

News flash: people who left a country didn't like the country they stayed in, but the people who stayed behind were happy. My mind just melted!

 

How would the Venezuelan situation look if the US didn't intervene (attempted 2002 coup, sanctions, etc)?

 

The truth of the matter is that the US spends all it's time making sure that any government that is not strict capitalist will fail. Saying "oh, it didn't work in Venezuela" is silly because it doesn't note that the US is actively participating in making the economy bleed.

 

And that's all I have to say on the matter. I should have left it with, yes there are still communists. Some young people are into the idea.

Venezuela was a wealthy country until Chavez went full socialist. Anyone who defends communism is naive and has never lived in or experienced the oppression first hand. During my foreign service career I interviewed enough people fleeing communism to get a clear picture how truly awful communism is. Anyone who defends it is either a member of the elite who benefits from the oppression or is so naive that they are utterly clueless.

[Elktonnick]

News flash: people who left a country didn't like the country they stayed in, but the people who stayed behind were happy. My mind just melted!

 

How would the Venezuelan situation look if the US didn't intervene (attempted 2002 coup, sanctions, etc)?

 

The truth of the matter is that the US spends all it's time making sure that any government that is not strict capitalist will fail. Saying "oh, it didn't work in Venezuela" is silly because it doesn't note that the US is actively participating in making the economy bleed.

 

And that's all I have to say on the matter. I should have left it with, yes there are still communists. Some young people are into the idea.

It is extremely difficult to leave Cuba. While Cuba technically eliminated exit view requirements in 2012 there are still. hurdles that prevent a large number of Cubans the opportunity to leave. So they idea that everyone currently living in Cuba is happy to remain is just utter nonsense.

[moonslav59]

Venezuela was a wealthy country until Chavez went full socialist. Anyone who defends communism is naive and has never lived in or experienced the oppression first hand. During my foreign service career I interviewed enough people fleeing communism to get a clear picture how truly awful communism is. Anyone who defends it is either a member of the elite who benefits from the oppression or is so naive that they are utterly clueless.

 

Can we stop the political BS?

 

Oppression exists in all sorts of countries with differing governments.

[Slasher9]

You are so young. Cuba and North Korea may be the only two left of old style communist regimes but there are millions of Eastern European s who remember the bad days when communist regimes were prevalent until about 1990.

 

i thought we were talking about now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

north korea is a dictatorship

russia is a dictatorship/oligarchy

china is communist. (not sure why you left them out? perhaps because they are about to take over the global top spot from USA?).

cuba is communist.

any other country currently communist?

venezuala we did dirty...just like guatemala, panama, honduras, and every other south american country.

[Elktonnick]

i thought we were talking about now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

north korea is a dictatorship

russia is a dictatorship/oligarchy

china is communist. (not sure why you left them out? perhaps because they are about to take over the global top spot from USA?).

cuba is communist.

any other country currently communist?

venezuala we did dirty...just like guatemala, panama, honduras, and every other south american country.

 

Can not let that stand. Simply not true re Venezuela or the rest of South America..

[Slasher9]

Can not let that stand. Simply not true re Venezuela or the rest of South America..

 

i dont know what to tell you brother. but are hands are pretty dirty.

The 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état, code-named Operation PBSUCCESS, was a covert operation carried out by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) that deposed the democratically elected Guatemalan President Jacobo Árbenz and ended the Guatemalan Revolution of 1944–1954. It installed the military dictatorship of Carlos Castillo Armas, the first in a series of U.S.-backed authoritarian rulers in Guatemala.

[mvp 78]

History not political opinion:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Mozote_massacre

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation