Pay Mookie!

[Elktonnick]

i dont know what to tell you brother. but are hands are pretty dirty.

The 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état, code-named Operation PBSUCCESS, was a covert operation carried out by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) that deposed the democratically elected Guatemalan President Jacobo Árbenz and ended the Guatemalan Revolution of 1944–1954. It installed the military dictatorship of Carlos Castillo Armas, the first in a series of U.S.-backed authoritarian rulers in Guatemala.

 

What happened in 1954 the United States. saved Guatemala from a Castro style government supported and secretly funded by the Soviet Union. " The New York Times was a first-rate newspaper in the 1950s, with reasonably comprehensive treatment of events in Washington and internationally, while the Post was inferior, even in its coverage of Washington politics. Still, both papers' editorials argued that the United States had to stop the Soviet Union from solidifying its Guatemalan "beachhead" in Central America. "

 

Two liberal papers he Washington Post and the New York Times both supported action to prevent the installation of a communist government in Guatemala.

[Elktonnick]

History not political opinion:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Mozote_massacre

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation

 

Wikepedia is hardly considered authoritative source on anything. According to Wikipedia.com itself, “Wikipedia is not considered a credible source. "

Edited January 31, 2020 by Elktonnick

[mvp 78]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/26/world/americas/el-salvador-el-mazote-massacre.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/03/world/school-for-assassins-or-aid-to-latin-democracy.html

 

https://apnews.com/2ded14659982426c9b2552827734be83

[notin]

Wikepedia is hardly considered authoritative source on anything. According to Wikipedia.com itself, “Wikipedia is not considered a credible source. "

 

While Wikipedia itself might not be a credible source, each article does contain a list of credible sources at the end...

[Slasher9]

What happened in 1954 the United States. saved Guatemala from a Castro style government supported and secretly funded by the Soviet Union. " The New York Times was a first-rate newspaper in the 1950s, with reasonably comprehensive treatment of events in Washington and internationally, while the Post was inferior, even in its coverage of Washington politics. Still, both papers' editorials argued that the United States had to stop the Soviet Union from solidifying its Guatemalan "beachhead" in Central America. "

 

Two liberal papers he Washington Post and the New York Times both supported action to prevent the installation of a communist government in Guatemala.

 

lol. sorry man i live in the real world.

ever been to Guatemala? i have about 8 times.

pretty sure i know how dirty we did them.

and it had zero to do with the Soviet Union and had everything to do with United Fruit Company.

i see that you want to turn this to leftwing/rightwing politics. that has zero to do with it. we did Guatemala and many other countries dirty. but we are a rich and powerful nation so i wouldnt want to live anywhere else on the planet. but i am not nieve to think that my luxury isnt at the blood, death, misery of other peoples.....

[moonslav59]

i dont know what to tell you brother. but are hands are pretty dirty.

The 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état, code-named Operation PBSUCCESS, was a covert operation carried out by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) that deposed the democratically elected Guatemalan President Jacobo Árbenz and ended the Guatemalan Revolution of 1944–1954. It installed the military dictatorship of Carlos Castillo Armas, the first in a series of U.S.-backed authoritarian rulers in Guatemala.

 

Also, look at Honduras, El Salvador, Haiti, Panama and on and on...

[notin]

lol. sorry man i live in the real world.

ever been to Guatemala? i have about 8 times.

pretty sure i know how dirty we did them.

and it had zero to do with the Soviet Union and had everything to do with United Fruit Company.

i see that you want to turn this to leftwing/rightwing politics. that has zero to do with it. we did Guatemala and many other countries dirty. but we are a rich and powerful nation so i wouldnt want to live anywhere else on the planet. but i am not nieve to think that my luxury isnt at the blood, death, misery of other peoples.....

 

"Now the labor leaders screamin' when we close the missle plants.

United Fruit screams at the Cuban shore

Call it peace or call it treason. Call it love or call it reason

But I ain't marchin' anymore"

 

- Phil Ochs, I Ain't Marchin' Anymore, 1965

[Jack Flap]

*slowly backs out of thread*

[Elktonnick]

lol. sorry man i live in the real world.

ever been to Guatemala? i have about 8 times.

pretty sure i know how dirty we did them.

and it had zero to do with the Soviet Union and had everything to do with United Fruit Company.

i see that you want to turn this to leftwing/rightwing politics. that has zero to do with it. we did Guatemala and many other countries dirty. but we are a rich and powerful nation so i wouldnt want to live anywhere else on the planet. but i am not nieve to think that my luxury isnt at the blood, death, misery of other peoples.....

 

I lived in El Salvador for three years. Traveled extensively throughout South America and have spent 9 years living in the hemisphere. Have many close Salvadoran and Guatemalan friends. Central America has always had a bloody history long before the United States had any involvement in the area. In general we have done much more good than harm as any fair minded person who really knows both the history and culture of the hemisphere understands.

 

BTW after the Jesuit massacre in 1989 I hosted the surviving Jesuit rector of the UCA the Jesuit university and several other Jesuits for dinner with visiting Congressmen at my house. I met repeatedly with Maria Julia Hernandez who won the RFK human rights award as head of tutela legal of the arch diocese of El Salvador as well as meeting with Jody Williams was then with Medical Aid to El Salvador. I was also held at gunpoint by the Salvadoran army and my wife had a M60 machine gun pointed at her by a FMLN guerilla. I could go on but just say I know a hell of a lot more about central America then some one who only visited Guatemala 8 times.

[moonslav59]

I lived in El Salvador for three years. Traveled extensively throughout South America and have spent 9 years living in the hemisphere. Have many close Salvadoran and Guatemalan friends. Central America has always had a bloody history long before the United States had any involvement in the area. In general we have done much more good than harm as any fair minded person who really knows both the history and culture of the hemisphere understands.

 

BTW after the Jesuit massacre in 1989 I hosted the surviving Jesuit rector of the UCA the Jesuit university and several other Jesuits for dinner with visiting Congressmen at my house. I met repeatedly with Maria Julia Hernandez who won the RFK human rights award as head of tutela legal of the arch diocese of El Salvador as well as meeting with Jody Williams was then with Medical Aid to El Salvador. I was also held at gunpoint by the Salvadoran army and my wife had a M60 machine gun pointed at her by a FMLN guerilla. I could go on but just say I know a hell of a lot more about central America then some one who only visited Guatemala 8 times.

 

"Bloody history?"

 

What does that mean? More than other areas of the world?

 

It's so clear to anyone with even half a brain much of the Central American problems were and still are fueled by USA attempts at exploiting them. That's not to say tings were rosy beforehand. Democratic leaders were overthrown and replaced by bloody dictators supported by the US.

 

Cuba was no shining star of human rights before Castro, either.

 

(I'm not defending Castro, but look at non-socialist countries in the area.)

 

I lived in Mexico for 4 years and have traveled to many Latin American countries several times. My sister has lived in Brazil for 26 years.

 

I major in political science at Notre Dame and focused on Latin American Studies. That doesn't mean I know more than you or anyone else- the same as living there for 9 years.

[fxkatt]

"Bloody history?"

 

What does that mean? More than other areas of the world?

 

It's so clear to anyone with even half a brain much of the Central American problems were and still are fueled by USA attempts at exploiting them. That's not to say tings were rosy beforehand. Democratic leaders were overthrown and replaced by bloody dictators supported by the US.

 

Cuba was no shining star of human rights before Castro, either.

 

(I'm not defending Castro, but look at non-socialist countries in the area.)

 

I lived in Mexico for 4 years and have traveled to many Latin American countries several times. My sister has lived in Brazil for 26 years.

 

I major in political science at Notre Dame and focused on Latin American Studies. That doesn't mean I know more than you or anyone else- the same as living there for 9 years.

 

Yes. I doubt Noam Chomsky has the "lived-there experience" in Central Am. as E's Jesuit experience alone, but he knows the overall historical, imperialistic picture, as you and Slasher9 do, much better than he. Maybe E should check out the School of the Americas (ASSASSINS) and the lives of its exalted graduates.

[moonslav59]

Yes. I doubt Noam Chomsky has the "lived-there experience" in Central Am. as E's Jesuit experience alone, but he knows the overall historical, imperialistic picture, as you and Slasher9 do, much better than he. Maybe E should check out the School of the Americas (ASSASSINS) and the lives of its exalted graduates.

 

To some, "history" only begins when the white man began recording it.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Now everybody put in a dollar each and pay Mookie!

[Elktonnick]

Yes. I doubt Noam Chomsky has the "lived-there experience" in Central Am. as E's Jesuit experience alone, but he knows the overall historical, imperialistic picture, as you and Slasher9 do, much better than he. Maybe E should check out the School of the Americas (ASSASSINS) and the lives of its exalted graduates.

 

I just love these arn chair liberals who have never had any real experience in the region. Those of us who tried to achieve a peaceful settlement always get vilified by those who live in their ivory towers. There were assassins on all sides. No side had a monopoly on evil. No one side had a sole claim on righteousness. The FMLN murdered the teenage daughter of a Salvadoran Colonel for the sole reason that her father was in the Army. The left killed the head of the Salvadoran Supreme Court the right murdered a Salvadoran Judge. Which side had right on their side, neither. The history of Central America has been bloody long before the arrival of the Spanish. The violence in El Salvador today is as bloody as it was during the civil war. There are many reasons for this none of which has anything to do with the School of the Americas.

[Elktonnick]

"Bloody history?"

 

What does that mean? More than other areas of the world?

 

It's so clear to anyone with even half a brain much of the Central American problems were and still are fueled by USA attempts at exploiting them. That's not to say tings were rosy beforehand. Democratic leaders were overthrown and replaced by bloody dictators supported by the US.

 

Cuba was no shining star of human rights before Castro, either.

 

(I'm not defending Castro, but look at non-socialist countries in the area.)

 

I lived in Mexico for 4 years and have traveled to many Latin American countries several times. My sister has lived in Brazil for 26 years.

 

I major in political science at Notre Dame and focused on Latin American Studies. That doesn't mean I know more than you or anyone else- the same as living there for 9 years.

 

When I speak of the bloody history of Central America, I am referring to the Pipil. My native Salvadoran staff explained that the vast majority of Salvadorans are descendants of the Pipil Guardians. Bill Fowler the noted anthropologist wrote, " Pipil men served as part-time soldiers, and they were among the fiercest warriors that Alvarado met in the conquest of Central America. Warfare was endemic in south eastern Mesoamerica during the Postclassic period, and, of course, it was through armed conflict that the Pipil dislodged resident populations and seized territory. Warfare for the Pipils, as for most ancient Mesoamericans, was an expression of political force and an important means of social mobility. Military orders were powerful social and political institutions through which highly specialized warriors achieved fame and recognition The Pipil heritage of most Salvadorans is evidenced by their culture which remains indelible in El Salvador."

My Savadoran friends told me that violence has always been prevalent in El Salvador long before the civil war and any North American ever set foot in the country. Once you understand the Pipil culture it also puts the rise of MS 13 in an entirely different light, now doesn't it.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Elktonnick

[mvp 78]

Now everybody put in a dollar each and pay Mookie!

 

I’d put in more than a dollar if they are passing a hat.

[mvp 78]

There are many reasons for this none of which has anything to do with the School of the Americas.

 

Both sides, but the School of the Americas did no wrong!!!!!!

 

Ahahahaha... So that school was disbanded for no reason? Funny stuff.

[Elktonnick]

Both sides, but the School of the Americas did no wrong!!!!!!

 

Ahahahaha... So that school was disbanded for no reason? Funny stuff.

 

Sorry to disillusion you the School of Americas was not disbanded but merely renamed it now called the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. Since its " abolition "it has trained over 19000 students from over 30 countries.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Elktonnick

[Donnie Sadler was short]

Can someone explain to me why the Pay Mookie thread has 2-3 pages of politics? Take it elsewhere.

[moonslav59]

When I speak of the bloody history of Central America, I am referring to the Pipil. My native Salvadoran staff explained that the vast majority of Salvadorans are descendants of the Pipil Guardians. Bill Fowler the noted anthropologist wrote, " Pipil men served as part-time soldiers, and they were among the fiercest warriors that Alvarado met in the conquest of Central America. Warfare was endemic in south eastern Mesoamerica during the Postclassic period, and, of course, it was through armed conflict that the Pipil dislodged resident populations and seized territory. Warfare for the Pipils, as for most ancient Mesoamericans, was an expression of political force and an important means of social mobility. Military orders were powerful social and political institutions through which highly specialized warriors achieved fame and recognition The Pipil heritage of most Salvadorans is evidenced by their culture which remains indelible in El Salvador."

My Savadoran friends told me that violence has always been prevalent in El Salvador long before the civil war and any North American ever set foot in the country. Once you understand the Pipil culture it also puts the rise of MS 13 in an entirely different light, now doesn't it.

 

You are selecting one branch of the many branches of Central American ancestry. Then, you are assuming that branch is responsible for centuries of bloodshed and exploitation. Then, you blame communism for the mess. I wasn't aware the Pipil were commies way back when, but your friends must know more than I do.

 

When you label a vast region as having a "bloody history," it implies more so than the norm or other vast regions.

 

I'd really prefer to not get political, but letting statements like that just ride on is something I just can't do.

[Elktonnick]

You either misread or misinterpreted what I wrote. I was referring to Central America in general and El Salvador in particular when I spoke of a bloody history. However there is generally no argument that pre Spanish Central and Andean America was a pretty violent and bloody place since all three the dominant pre Columbian empires practiced human sacrifice.

As for violence of the 50 most violent cities in the world 42 are in Latin America, 15 in Mexico, 14 in Brazil, 6 in Venezuela, 2 in Colombia, 2 in Honduras and one each in El Salvador and Guatemala. I never suggested or

implied that the Pupil were communist but that the Pupil had a long tradition of violence and yes explotation.

 

I assume you aren't defending communism are you ?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Can someone explain to me why the Pay Mookie thread has 2-3 pages of politics? Take it elsewhere.

 

Donnie, I tried to get even the communists back on task, asking each and every one for the same contribution - $1 - to collect for Mookie. One collective, with The Who blaring ads for the cars: "Commie can you hear me? Commie? Commie...?"

[Elktonnick]

Donnie, I tried to get even the communists back on task, asking each and every one for the same contribution - $1 - to collect for Mookie. One collective, with The Who blaring ads for the cars: "Commie can you hear me? Commie? Commie...?"

 

As an unabashed capitalist I pay a portion of Mookie's salary every time I buy a ticket to a game or buy a product advertised on NESN

[oldmaninthevegasdesert]

Hey, youngster, since I doubt you're as old as me. No one uses the term "commie" or "communist" any more (well, except perhaps in reference to soccer).

 

yeah now they are called democrats, and deep state, and I am soon finishing my 64th lap

[oldmaninthevegasdesert]

It’s more like corporate socialism, like JP Morgan and Ford.

 

so I heard

[oldmaninthevegasdesert]

I have been an advocate of using a sliding scale to establish the length of contract offer for players based upon age. Younger field players get up to 8 years while players 30 to 31 get 5 years and over 32 3 years or less. Pitchers are a different category because the wear and tear of innings pitched seem to take a toll. We have seen this with Price with a 7 year contract. It is a rare pitcher who still is very effective at 35 years old. I would limit pitchers to 5 year contracts. Clearly, other teams will not and outbid the teams using a more conservative approach.

 

As far as salary offers, I would make a budget with star up the middle and first and 2nd tier starters at the top of the pyramid while other players would be paid according to value as a percentage of the total available payroll. I would make exceptions if there was a solid likelihood of playing for all the marbles but would normally try to stay at or below the competitive balance tax 1st tier ceiling. '

 

In the end, I believe this approach would field the most consistently competitive team. Teams that go out on a limb with long term and large contracts are bound to have a lot of off years as the realities of risk set in. Some of the advocates for going out on a limb will say, Yes, but we may win a world series by doing it and accept the crash that will follow. I just don't agree with that approach. Mookie at $35 Mil for 10 or more Coles big contract fall into the verly optimistic category in my book.

 

Now, if the competitive balance tax is trashed, the money is there to pay the players more, but then the lower budget teams would have reduce competitiveness so some leveling means is likely to remain.

 

I like the idea

[oldmaninthevegasdesert]

i dont believe communists pay tax tho? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

no, the communists just take it ,leave you a shirt on your back, if you are lucky.

[mvp 78]

Let me reign in the discussion and say:

 

THEY SHOULD JUST SIGN MOOKIE THIS WEEKEND TO THE BIGGEST CONTRACT EVER AND NOT TRADE HIM.

[oldmaninthevegasdesert]

From what I've heard, the people who stayed in Cuba are happy. They'd just have a better life if the US didn't have an embargo with them and that's not Cuba's fault.

 

and the embargo stands because they took Lansky's hotel casinos, and history has shown how his zionist friends have honored his memory for helping in the beginning of Israel's existence in different forms all his life

[notin]

Let me reign in the discussion and say:

 

THEY SHOULD JUST SIGN MOOKIE THIS WEEKEND TO THE BIGGEST CONTRACT EVER AND NOT TRADE HIM.

 

Commie...