What should Bloom's plan for 2020 be?

[mvp 78]

It seems like we've only been kicking around a few ideas for what the Sox should do. Let's see what everyone here thinks is the way to go.

 

Just as an FYI, I've allowed for multiple choices for this poll.

Edited January 23, 2020 by mvp 78

[moonslav59]

At this point, I'd trade Betts, JBJ, JD, Price, Eovaldi & Workman, since all are FAs after this year or grossly overpaid.

 

I'd think long and hard about trading 2 year players like Barnes & Hembree, but I'd look to extend ERod.

 

I'd consider trading players I think may be at peak value: Walden, Chavis & Duran... maybe Beni.

 

I'd keep Sale, Bogey, Devers and D Hern.

 

I'd try and keep the rebuild short by going nutty with free agent signings this next winter. I'd go hard for Betts but not too overboard. I'd try to keep most signings shorter term. I'd encourage Bloom to find some diamonds in the rough.

 

Maybe we can compete in 2021. maybe it will take a bit longer.

 

I'm packing it in for 2020, despite a slim chance at glory.

[S5Dewey]

At this point, I'd trade Betts, JBJ, JD, Price, Eovaldi & Workman, since all are FAs after this year or grossly overpaid.

 

I'd think long and hard about trading 2 year players like Barnes & Hembree, but I'd look to extend ERod.

 

I'd consider trading players I think may be at peak value: Walden, Chavis & Duran... maybe Beni.

 

I'd keep Sale, Bogey, Devers and D Hern.

 

I'd try and keep the rebuild short by going nutty with free agent signings this next winter. I'd go hard for Betts but not too overboard. I'd try to keep most signings shorter term. I'd encourage Bloom to find some diamonds in the rough.

 

Maybe we can compete in 2021. maybe it will take a bit longer.

 

I'm packing it in for 2020, despite a slim chance at glory.

 

Wow. Who are you, and how did you get Moon's login information?

 

I can understand not being enthused about the 2020 season but you're talking about a BIG TIME fire sale here! It takes a long time to build a team as strong as this one and you're willing to gut the whole thing in the hope that Bloom can rebuild something equally as strong? We have an outstanding core of players under team control for 2020 - that's our entire outfield, the left side of the infield, the DH and the catcher. This didn't fall together overnight.

 

I'm willing to see them fill holes in the right side of the IF and the bench as they can and give this pitching staff another shot. This entire fire sale mentality is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The worst case scenario is that we're toast by the deadline and trade these players you're so willing to get rid of now.

[notin]

I think Bloom keeps it simple (“Gee, thanks for the astute observation, Captain Obvious”) and just goes for some depth pieces and a cheap LHH 1b for a part time platoon with Chavis. Thinking Greg Bird. (Not my choice here,)

 

At some point I’d stock up on some SP depth and get a fourth OF. But we’ll see...

[Slasher9]

I'm trading everyone i can for prospects. i am even listening to offers for Devers.

[harmony]

Trade Mookie Betts for top prospects, including one MLB-ready starter.

 

Execute a trade centered on David Price and Wil Myers.

 

Have a Cuban take over right field, either free agent Yasiel Puig or a called-up Rusney Castillo.

 

Be prepared for the Red Sox to use openers instead of starters a few times a week.

 

Hope that the 2020 Red Sox can exceed lowered expectations with no delusions about being World Series contenders.

 

Welcome the 2020-21 offseason and beyond with high hopes minus the current financial constraints. The Red Sox went all-in leading up the the 2018 World Series title and now should step back for one season to reload.

 

Or not.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm trading everyone i can for prospects. i am even listening to offers for Devers.

 

Devers? Thou art a madman.

[mvp 78]

I'm trading everyone i can for prospects. i am even listening to offers for Devers.

 

Nah.

[notin]

I'm trading everyone i can for prospects. i am even listening to offers for Devers.

 

You don't want that level of rebuild. Look at the Marlins. They traded back-to-back NL MVP's and got essentially nothing for them...

[Slasher9]

Devers? Thou art a madman.

 

what if Atlanta offered:

Pache

Anderson

Waters

Muller

Vodnik

 

would you?

[Bellhorn04]

what if Atlanta offered:

Pache

Anderson

Waters

Muller

Vodnik

 

would you?

 

You're asking the wrong guy, I'm afraid. I don't know jack about other team's prospects.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

what if Atlanta offered:

Pache

Anderson

Waters

Muller

Vodnik

 

would you?

 

I already proposed this: Devers and Barnes for four Braves prospects -- Pache and Langeliers (catcher), and Atlanta's top two starters, Ian Anderson and Kyle Wright. Move Dalbec to third.

 

But I also said the only way I'd trade Devers is if they knew they could lock up Betts...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

By the way, lux tax or not, future starting pitching may have to come from either trades or Bloom's moundsmen in the rough.

 

The best of the '21 free agent class -- arms around 30 -- are Robbie Ray, Bauer and Stroman... good, but not Sale or Cole material.

 

There are more options in '22, but again no earth-shakers: Jon Gray, Vince Velazquez, Folty, Matz, McCullers, Urena, Rodon...

 

Maybe, Noah Song will be honorably discharged by then.

[mvp 78]

what if Atlanta offered:

Pache

Anderson

Waters

Muller

Vodnik

 

would you?

 

So the Braves 3 top prospects plus some relievers?

 

I'd think about it. Top prospects don't always pan out. Devers is marching towards HOF.

[mvp 78]

By the way, lux tax or not, future starting pitching may have to come from either trades or Bloom's moundsmen in the rough.

 

The best of the '21 free agent class -- arms around 30 -- are Robbie Ray, Bauer and Stroman... good, but not Sale or Cole material.

 

There are more options in '22, but again no earth-shakers: Jon Gray, Vince Velazquez, Folty, Matz, McCullers, Urena, Rodon...

 

Maybe, Noah Song will be honorably discharged by then.

 

Waiting on SP in FA is a fool's errand more often than not.

[Noles_1335]

I'm with Slasher here... We have to look at options to trade Mookie for elite prospects. One way or the other the farm has to get more talent that we can pull from. We may very well be looking at losing draft picks with the MLB investigation so we need to strike while we can. Go out and get SP's and a 2B. Hell make two trade possibilities in Mook straight up for a SP and top rated prospects and go ahead and package JBJ and Evoladi.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm with Slasher here... We have to look at options to trade Mookie for elite prospects. One way or the other the farm has to get more talent that we can pull from. We may very well be looking at losing draft picks with the MLB investigation so we need to strike while we can. Go out and get SP's and a 2B. Hell make two trade possibilities in Mook straight up for a SP and top rated prospects and go ahead and package JBJ and Evoladi.

 

The reports are that other teams are reluctant to give up elite prospects for Mookie, which is understandable, because the other team only gets him for 1 year and has to pay him 27 million.

[jacksonianmarch]

The fangraphs piece showing 3 witnesses claiming this scheme was not only done at home, but on the road, makes it FAR more likely that the sox are gonna get hammered here. Rumor has it that the sox are facing a penalty even more harsh than the Astros. Cora may face a 2 or more year ban, which isn't relevant to the sox right now anyway since they've moved on.

 

Here is what I would do if I was Bloom

 

I would NOT hire from within. Roenicke is dead to me if I was Bloom. I'd hire someone who wasn't in that dugout and essentially purge any coaches still on the payroll that were in the clubhouse. Clean sweep. I'd bring in Tek and try to get him to build a staff around him. Tek would be able to get some of the initial goodwill from RSN for his exploits in uniform, and it would immediately give the thought that Henry takes this seriously, which would create a positive media spin.

 

In terms of team building, you have to go by what Henry allows. Losing the 1st and 2nd round picks in 2020 is a major hit. Losing them in 2021 would be devastating and remove any benefit of a "bridge year". Then losing IFA funds on top of that would be killer. So there are two ways to swing this.

 

#1- Go into Henry's office and say, hey, there is really no non-monetary penalty for going way over payroll in 2020. I want to saddle up, sign or trade for as many 1 yr players as I can and ride into 2020 guns blazing. We can get below the top tax bracket for 2021 and totally reset and rebuild in 2022

 

if Henry says no, I go to #2

 

#2- I now have lost my top 2 draft picks over the next 2 years and have had my IFA budget slashed. This is a massive hit to a club with a dead farm system in need of, at the very least, some heavy retooling and most likely a full on rebuild. Now I have lost 4 picks that could have helped me and IFA funds that would have allowed me to grab at least one, maybe two top talents to add to my barren system. The only way to start the rebuild is to trade, and you don't get good assets by dealing off s*** parts. I would deal off EVERYONE. Nobody is off limits.

I call the Braves and say, hey, I know you just lost Donaldson. Devers is all yours, but we want Riley, Anderson and Pache.

I call the Dodgers and say, you know you want Betts. Make me a real offer and he is yours. Offer me bad contracts as well to offset the money, no problem, just add to the prospect haul. I'd take back Kelly, Ruiz and Gray

I call the Mutts and say, hey, that Rosario kid needs an upgrade. Send me him and Mauricio. You can have Bogaerts

I let it be known that Price is available and the sox will eat up to half the contract. Get at least something for him

I let it be known that Sale is available and I would be willing to eat $30 mil over the first 3 years of the deal. That should get enough bites, especially if he shows he is healthy at the beginning of the year

I offer to eat half the contract of Eovaldi for something.

I'd definitely try to maximize the return on Beni

I'd deal Vasquez

 

f*** it. If you have the penalty that is proposed be imposed on your team, then that is a deathknell for a squad trying to build up any minor league blue chippers or depth. The only way to get that coveted cheap, young talent is to deal. And I would deal off EVERYTHING. It would suck to burn two high picks in 2021, but in this madman plan, all the cash outlays are gone after 2022. Sale, you are paying down only 3 years. Price and Eo are done after 3. You would get a prospect haul that would immediately make your farm #1 in the game. Your cost would be basically nothing by 2023 and Bloom can actually build a team.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The fangraphs piece showing 3 witnesses claiming this scheme was not only done at home, but on the road, makes it FAR more likely that the sox are gonna get hammered here. Rumor has it that the sox are facing a penalty even more harsh than the Astros. Cora may face a 2 or more year ban, which isn't relevant to the sox right now anyway since they've moved on.

 

Here is what I would do if I was Bloom

 

I would NOT hire from within. Roenicke is dead to me if I was Bloom. I'd hire someone who wasn't in that dugout and essentially purge any coaches still on the payroll that were in the clubhouse. Clean sweep. I'd bring in Tek and try to get him to build a staff around him. Tek would be able to get some of the initial goodwill from RSN for his exploits in uniform, and it would immediately give the thought that Henry takes this seriously, which would create a positive media spin.

 

In terms of team building, you have to go by what Henry allows. Losing the 1st and 2nd round picks in 2020 is a major hit. Losing them in 2021 would be devastating and remove any benefit of a "bridge year". Then losing IFA funds on top of that would be killer. So there are two ways to swing this.

 

#1- Go into Henry's office and say, hey, there is really no non-monetary penalty for going way over payroll in 2020. I want to saddle up, sign or trade for as many 1 yr players as I can and ride into 2020 guns blazing. We can get below the top tax bracket for 2021 and totally reset and rebuild in 2022

 

if Henry says no, I go to #2

 

#2- I now have lost my top 2 draft picks over the next 2 years and have had my IFA budget slashed. This is a massive hit to a club with a dead farm system in need of, at the very least, some heavy retooling and most likely a full on rebuild. Now I have lost 4 picks that could have helped me and IFA funds that would have allowed me to grab at least one, maybe two top talents to add to my barren system. The only way to start the rebuild is to trade, and you don't get good assets by dealing off s*** parts. I would deal off EVERYONE. Nobody is off limits.

I call the Braves and say, hey, I know you just lost Donaldson. Devers is all yours, but we want Riley, Anderson and Pache.

I call the Dodgers and say, you know you want Betts. Make me a real offer and he is yours. Offer me bad contracts as well to offset the money, no problem, just add to the prospect haul. I'd take back Kelly, Ruiz and Gray

I call the Mutts and say, hey, that Rosario kid needs an upgrade. Send me him and Mauricio. You can have Bogaerts

I let it be known that Price is available and the sox will eat up to half the contract. Get at least something for him

I let it be known that Sale is available and I would be willing to eat $30 mil over the first 3 years of the deal. That should get enough bites, especially if he shows he is healthy at the beginning of the year

I offer to eat half the contract of Eovaldi for something.

I'd definitely try to maximize the return on Beni

I'd deal Vasquez

 

f*** it. If you have the penalty that is proposed be imposed on your team, then that is a deathknell for a squad trying to build up any minor league blue chippers or depth. The only way to get that coveted cheap, young talent is to deal. And I would deal off EVERYTHING. It would suck to burn two high picks in 2021, but in this madman plan, all the cash outlays are gone after 2022. Sale, you are paying down only 3 years. Price and Eo are done after 3. You would get a prospect haul that would immediately make your farm #1 in the game. Your cost would be basically nothing by 2023 and Bloom can actually build a team.

 

Wow, that was so generous of a Yankees fan to try to help the Red Sox become an absolute non-factor in the AL East for the next decade. Trade the entire core, because we can easily replace it with other clubs' minor leaguers. Since what the hell, everyone knows that Urshela and Gleybar are already better than Devers and Bogey, Sanchez is a better catcher than Vazquez, and the outfield of Judge, Stanton and Gardner is all-around better than Betts, Beni and JBJ...

[moonslav59]

what if Atlanta offered:

Pache

Anderson

Waters

Muller

Vodnik

 

would you?

 

The trade simulator has these values:

 

127.2 Devers

 

71.4 Pache

50.6 Waters

35.6 Anderson

12.5 Muller

1.2 Vodnik

 

[jacksonianmarch]

Wow, that was so generous of a Yankees fan to try to help the Red Sox become an absolute non-factor in the AL East for the next decade. Trade the entire core, because we can easily replace it with other clubs' minor leaguers. Since what the hell, everyone knows that Urshela and Gleybar are already better than Devers and Bogey, Sanchez is a better catcher than Vazquez, and the outfield of Judge, Stanton and Gardner is all-around better than Betts, Beni and JBJ...

 

Or you can continue being mediocre, which is what the sox will be. Enjoy that.

[Slasher9]

The trade simulator has these values:

 

127.2 Devers

 

71.4 Pache

50.6 Waters

35.6 Anderson

12.5 Muller

1.2 Vodnik

 

 

so it didnt accept it as an Atlanta overpay?

but would you do that deal if you are Bloom?

[moonslav59]

Wow. Who are you, and how did you get Moon's login information?

 

I can understand not being enthused about the 2020 season but you're talking about a BIG TIME fire sale here! It takes a long time to build a team as strong as this one and you're willing to gut the whole thing in the hope that Bloom can rebuild something equally as strong? We have an outstanding core of players under team control for 2020 - that's our entire outfield, the left side of the infield, the DH and the catcher. This didn't fall together overnight.

 

I'm willing to see them fill holes in the right side of the IF and the bench as they can and give this pitching staff another shot. This entire fire sale mentality is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The worst case scenario is that we're toast by the deadline and trade these players you're so willing to get rid of now.

 

It's me- for real.

 

I'm pretty certain we'll trade some players this season- most likely at the deadline. The only way we don't is if we are in the race by the deadline. I think that's highly unlikely.

 

So, if we trade some players, I'm thinking we should trade everyone and anyone who is NOT part of the 2021 plan and seriously consider those who are FAs after 2021.

 

We can bring back many of the players we want as FAs this winter, anyways, so this may not be a total deconstruction, except for 2020.

 

The kingpin is Betts. If we trade him then why keep JD, JBJ, Workman and the two grossly overpaid pitchers?

 

I get it: fans and NESN viewership. I'm not saying this makes business sense, or that I think Sox management might do this, but it's what I feel is best for the team. We sacrificed the future for 2018, and the future is upon us.

 

Let's keep the cliff years to just 2 (2019 & 2020).

 

Nobody hacked my account. I was on the fence earlier this winter, but with all this cheating stuff and parting with Cora has helped me stand firmly on the side of rebuilding as quickly and effectively as possible.

[moonslav59]

Trade Mookie Betts for top prospects, including one MLB-ready starter.

 

Execute a trade centered on David Price and Wil Myers.

 

Have a Cuban take over right field, either free agent Yasiel Puig or a called-up Rusney Castillo.

 

Be prepared for the Red Sox to use openers instead of starters a few times a week.

 

Hope that the 2020 Red Sox can exceed lowered expectations with no delusions about being World Series contenders.

 

Welcome the 2020-21 offseason and beyond with high hopes minus the current financial constraints. The Red Sox went all-in leading up the the 2018 World Series title and now should step back for one season to reload.

 

Or not.

 

Forget the "or not."

 

If we trade Betts, why keep JBJ and JD or even Workman?

 

We can sign them all this winter after a reset, if we want.

 

We're not winning in 2020 without Betts, so why pretend we still can.

 

Once we decided to pack in 2020, we should have gone all in.

[mvp 78]

It's only a cliff if Henry takes his checkbook home with him.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Or you can continue being mediocre, which is what the sox will be. Enjoy that.

 

I'll take my chances for a better season. But good luck assuming another combined 10 WAR from Tauchman, Urshela, Ford and Maybin. Even DJ (as good as he is), coming off a career year at 6 WAR... it's not automatic anyone repeats a career year.

 

I remember I thought New York was golden when they traded for Trout at the All-Star break... Steve in 1987 was 6-3 with a 3 ERA in the NL when he joined the first-place Yanks. Trout went 0-4 with a 6 ERA, and NY limped home in fourth place.

[oldtimer]

Forget the "or not."

 

If we trade Betts, why keep JBJ and JD or even Workman?

 

We can sign them all this winter after a reset, if we want.

 

We're not winning in 2020 without Betts, so why pretend we still can.

 

Once we decided to pack in 2020, we should have gone all in.

 

I have been on the side of reset in 2020. Even keeping Mookie and essentially pat except for replacing Porcello, I don't think we can compete at the highest level due to our pitching staff.

 

It makes sense to me that Bloom has been trying to trade pieces that will get us below $208 Million. Bloom is limited as to what other clubs want and will trade for so it appears that Mookie coupled with either Price or Eovaldi is one possibility and JBJ by himself is another and JDM by himself still another..

 

Once below $208 million I see no advantage in stripping off additional players as we can make those moves next year if required. Why try to go to the cellar this year unless you want to pursue an approach that looks for top draft choices?

 

I like to believe that the Red Sox did not cheat as JDM has told us and that in the end Cora will be our only casualty and it will be related only to his time with the Astros. I know that is a big if but it could well be true.

 

[moonslav59]

It's only a cliff if Henry takes his checkbook home with him.

 

Isn't it already there and has been all winter?

[moonslav59]

Once below $208 million I see no advantage in stripping off additional players as we can make those moves next year if required. Why try to go to the cellar this year unless you want to pursue an approach that looks for top draft choices?

 

 

You may not agree on giving up on 2020, and I can understand that, but there is a clear advantage in trading other players.

 

We get prospects or salary relief for 2021 and beyond. Our farm is not good.

 

We can always bring back Betts, JD and Workman as well as add new blood.

 

Clinging to players that are FAs after 2020 only helps 2020.

[harmony]

Forget the "or not."

 

If we trade Betts, why keep JBJ and JD or even Workman?

 

We can sign them all this winter after a reset, if we want.

 

We're not winning in 2020 without Betts, so why pretend we still can.

 

Once we decided to pack in 2020, we should have gone all in.

Jackie Bradley Jr., J.D. Martinez and Brandon Workman have limited trade value:

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/teams/604/

 

... but the Red Sox could pursue trades nevertheless.