2018 Red Sox cheating scandal

[harmony]

They absolutely need to investigate further. Even if over 60% of teams are doing it, they league needs to protect the 40% of teams that are not and protect the game itself.

 

You give hitters in game, real time forewarning to the FB v offspeed/breaking pitch and you have corrupted the game at its core, right at the pitcher/hitter match up. It represents IMO, the single greatest mutation and advantage for the hitters and thus any group of players vs another group of players in professional team sports. Not sure I can think of anything that would come close including the Pats and Spygate.

I can't vouch for these sources, but ...

 

https://twitter.com/jomboy_/status/1217886556263940098

[Slasher9]

yankees going down too.

perhaps instead of trying to bury the story Manfred should embrace the "all press is good press" philosophy???

[devildavid]

and only 2 for Manny? what a f***ing joke. Manny was the greatest RH hitter of all time. the writers can eat a big bag of D's.

 

Manny got caught.

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=6310125

[jacksonianmarch]

yankees going down too.

perhaps instead of trying to bury the story Manfred should embrace the "all press is good press" philosophy???

 

How does the above twitter feed say anything about the Yanks? I maintain the same thing. If the Yanks relayed the pitch to the batters in real time, they should be punished.

 

Also, this device s*** is crazy. I wonder if it’s true, but it sure looks like something is there. And if they’re not lying and that HR off Chap was a cheat shot, I’ll be rip s***

[notin]

They absolutely need to investigate further. Even if over 60% of teams are doing it, they league needs to protect the 40% of teams that are not and protect the game itself.

 

You give hitters in game, real time forewarning to the FB v offspeed/breaking pitch and you have corrupted the game at its core, right at the pitcher/hitter match up. It represents IMO, the single greatest mutation and advantage for the hitters and thus any group of players vs another group of players in professional team sports. Not sure I can think of anything that would come close including the Pats and Spygate.

 

 

Or eschew months of investigation and implement earpieces for pitchers and catchers to prevent anyone from being able to employ this tactic. If each franchise has an Amazon Prime account, this can be done tomorrow...

[Bellhorn04]

FWIW Roche and Merloni have tweeted slightly hopeful things about how the Red Sox investigation is going.

[jung]

Or eschew months of investigation and implement earpieces for pitchers and catchers to prevent anyone from being able to employ this tactic. If each franchise has an Amazon Prime account, this can be done tomorrow...

 

I still want the replay crap out of the hands of the teams for a multitude of reasons. earpieces and mics sound like the easiest solution but that solution does not seem to have much momentum behind it for some reason. There must be something to that. Maybe crowd noise. Have not thought about it enough myself. But somebody must have.

[mvp 78]

Robot umps for balls and strikes. Get rid of replay.

[Tedballgame]

MLB not finding much in investigation of 2018 Red Sox per Lou Merloni. Keep your fingers crossed.

[Tedballgame]

How does the above twitter feed say anything about the Yanks? I maintain the same thing. If the Yanks relayed the pitch to the batters in real time, they should be punished.

 

Also, this device s*** is crazy. I wonder if it’s true, but it sure looks like something is there. And if they’re not lying and that HR off Chap was a cheat shot, I’ll be rip s***

 

I sure hope its true!!!

[Elktonnick]

MLB not finding much in investigation of 2018 Red Sox per Lou Merloni. Keep your fingers crossed.

I Hope He is right but then again how would he know. MLB is usually pretty tight lipped.

[harmony]

I can't vouch for these sources, but ...

 

https://twitter.com/jomboy_/status/1217886556263940098

 

MLB reportedly found no evidence of wearable devices:

 

[jung]

MLB not finding much in investigation of 2018 Red Sox per Lou Merloni. Keep your fingers crossed.

 

If true then Henry and company are idiots.

 

They have been claiming that they parted company with Alex entirely because of the Houston Report. How does that actually make any sense.

 

So John, you want me to believe that you did not ask Alex if he brought any of this nonsense over from Houston? You just avoided that question completely and then went on to "part company" because of the Houston Report? That makes no sense.

 

Alternately, you are asking me to believe that you did broach the topic of electronic/video sign stealing here in Boston. Alex told you our team was not doing that AND YOU FIRED HIM ANYWAY! That does not make sense either.

[jacksonianmarch]

He’s about to face a ban of at least one season. You cannot have a manager on a sabbatical.

[moonslav59]

If true then Henry and company are idiots.

 

They have been claiming that they parted company with Alex entirely because of the Houston Report. How does that actually make any sense.

 

So John, you want me to believe that you did not ask Alex if he brought any of this nonsense over from Houston? You just avoided that question completely and then went on to "part company" because of the Houston Report? That makes no sense.

 

Alternately, you are asking me to believe that you did broach the topic of electronic/video sign stealing here in Boston. Alex told you our team was not doing that AND YOU FIRED HIM ANYWAY! That does not make sense either.

 

Reason 1: Do we want a cheater as out leader?

Reason 2: Do we want the media side show that would follow Cora and the Sox for months and months?

Reason 3: He was going to suspended for a full year.

 

One may not think these are reason enough, but they do "make sense."

[Tedballgame]

He’s about to face a ban of at least one season. You cannot have a manager on a sabbatical.

Ever heard of Sean Payton?

[jung]

Reason 1: Do we want a cheater as out leader?

Reason 2: Do we want the media side show that would follow Cora and the Sox for months and months?

Reason 3: He was going to suspended for a full year.

 

One may not think these are reason enough, but they do "make sense."

 

1. NO. But then you have to conclude that Alex was cheating here as well as Houston. So that sort of screws the "things going well for the Boston Report" thinking. Parsing the degrees of guilt once you are using electronics and video to cheat is simply flawed. If Cora was using video and electronics here we are going to get tagged and hard regardless of how and how often the data was communicated to the hitters.

2. Boston Red Sox baseball is a media side show by definition.

3. OK....do you really think we are going to get a manager we want long term in January of 2020? People are seriously talking about Buck Showalter. You want Bucky?????

[Elktonnick]

1. NO. But then you have to conclude that Alex was cheating here as well as Houston. So that sort of screws the "things going well for the Boston Report" thinking. Parsing the degrees of guilt once you are using electronics and video to cheat is simply flawed. If Cora was using video and electronics here we are going to get tagged and hard regardless of how and how often the data was communicated to the hitters.

2. Boston Red Sox baseball is a media side show by definition.

3. OK....do you really think we are going to get a manager we want long term in January of 2020? People are seriously talking about Buck Showalter. You want Bucky?????

 

No, No Yes to Buck. Primarily because he can be Bill Belichick with the media and that would be fun to watch.

[notin]

If true then Henry and company are idiots.

 

They have been claiming that they parted company with Alex entirely because of the Houston Report. How does that actually make any sense.

 

So John, you want me to believe that you did not ask Alex if he brought any of this nonsense over from Houston? You just avoided that question completely and then went on to "part company" because of the Houston Report? That makes no sense.

 

Alternately, you are asking me to believe that you did broach the topic of electronic/video sign stealing here in Boston. Alex told you our team was not doing that AND YOU FIRED HIM ANYWAY! That does not make sense either.

 

The Mets didn’t fire Beltran because of his failure to win a game so far.

 

You can’t go accusing these investigations as being driven by PR and then be surprised if actual moves are...

[moonslav59]

1. NO. But then you have to conclude that Alex was cheating here as well as Houston. So that sort of screws the "things going well for the Boston Report" thinking. Parsing the degrees of guilt once you are using electronics and video to cheat is simply flawed. If Cora was using video and electronics here we are going to get tagged and hard regardless of how and how often the data was communicated to the hitters.

2. Boston Red Sox baseball is a media side show by definition.

3. OK....do you really think we are going to get a manager we want long term in January of 2020? People are seriously talking about Buck Showalter. You want Bucky?????

 

1. No, you don't have to conclude he cheated here. You can fire him for just being a cheater- as a person.

2. True, but this would be a huge distraction, which actually might help distract from how much we'll suck.

3. I could care less right now about who manages in 2020. It won't be Cora. It shouldn't be in 2021.

 

Bucky is not the only choice. I'd even take you over him.

[jung]

1. No, you don't have to conclude he cheated here. You can fire him for just being a cheater- as a person.

2. True, but this would be a huge distraction, which actually might help distract from how much we'll suck.

3. I could care less right now about who manages in 2020. It won't be Cora. It shouldn't be in 2021.

 

Bucky is not the only choice. I'd even take you over him.

 

1. So you are OK with the Sox brass and Ownership essentially saying that at the point of still having Cora in the fold they were uncurious about whether or not he brought his cheating scandal here to Boston? They are literally saying that at the point of "parting company" they did not query Cora about the state of affairs in the 2018 Red Sox dugout. You are OK with that? I guess if I had my head perennially stuck in the sand I would be OK with that. This IS the problem with MLB and particularly with its royal franchises of which we are one. For example one of the bigger financial opportunities the franchises and the league is looking at is partnership with legal gambling interests. Do you really think they are going to pull that off in this environment?

 

2. I have never found a year in 60 years of watching this team that it was not a media fiasco and carnival show

 

3. It is contrary in the extreme for the Sox to claim that Cora probably deserves a chance to manage an MLB team again and also essentially posture that they were uncurious about the actual state of their clubhouse and dugout in 2018. IT STINKS. Their position that they do not have the resources to conduct an Investigation into 2018 are a joke, a dodge. You could not ask your Manager, your employee about the state of your clubhouse and dugout in 2018? Don't make me laugh. The three of them were a perfect example of three monkeys up there. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. As a consequence now we have likely lost the Manager that we had actually brought in to Manage based on the profile of the team we were building, full of young Latin stars mixed with traditional American players and we are stuck with a likely complete mismatch not just for this year but subsequent years. Given THAT they were still uncurious with regard to Alex and the 2018 Sox????

 

Of course I can't ignore the possibility that Henry and Warner were uncurious because THEY ALREADY KNEW what was going on in the Sox dugout in 2018 and Bloom for his part is a catatonic outsider just happy to be there.

Edited January 17, 2020 by jung

[jung]

If you wish to know what I would have preferred, I would have preferred no press conference at all. The only reason for that press conference is because the Sox brass wanted to set the stage for the coming Boston Report which I do think will be less exercised than the Houston report and I think they have been tipped to that by the League. All that "we ask our fans to reserve judgement" BS was just that, BS. The rest of that mess of a press conference made them look like idiots (the standard operational condition of all MLB franchises).

 

What I would have preferred is less of the Fenway two-step. No press conference at all. Just an announcement that they have parted company with Alex. They are a private business enterprise. The terms of any separation agreement are their business, not ours. We can speculate on it all we want as that is our right as fans. But its none of our business.

 

And now you know why Fenway Park is a media carnival. Its a media carnival because the Sox make it a media carnival.

[jacksonianmarch]

They always seem to have a parting press conference, which I never understand. When you let the manager or GM go, why then let the media dig into a fresh wound? You shouldn’t have press conferences about negative news unless clarification is needed. They didn’t clarify their message at all, so why do it? They’ll need a press conference after the Boston report and punishment comes out, but the manager firing was more common sense than anything else

[notin]

1. So you are OK with the Sox brass and Ownership essentially saying that at the point of still having Cora in the fold they were uncurious about whether or not he brought his cheating scandal here to Boston? They are literally saying that at the point of "parting company" they did not query Cora about the state of affairs in the 2018 Red Sox dugout. You are OK with that? I guess if I had my head perennially stuck in the sand I would be OK with that. This IS the problem with MLB and particularly with its royal franchises of which we are one. For example one of the bigger financial opportunities the franchises and the league is looking at is partnership with legal gambling interests. Do you really think they are going to pull that off in this environment?

 

2. I have never found a year in 60 years of watching this team that it was not a media fiasco and carnival show

 

3. It is contrary in the extreme for the Sox to claim that Cora probably deserves a chance to manage an MLB team again and also essentially posture that they were uncurious about the actual state of their clubhouse and dugout in 2018. IT STINKS. Their position that they do not have the resources to conduct an Investigation into 2018 are a joke, a dodge. You could not ask your Manager, your employee about the state of your clubhouse and dugout in 2018? Don't make me laugh. The three of them were a perfect example of three monkeys up there. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. As a consequence now we have likely lost the Manager that we had actually brought in to Manage based on the profile of the team we were building, full of young Latin stars mixed with traditional American players and we are stuck with a likely complete mismatch not just for this year but subsequent years. Given THAT they were still uncurious with regard to Alex and the 2018 Sox????

 

Of course I can't ignore the possibility that Henry and Warner were uncurious because THEY ALREADY KNEW what was going on in the Sox dugout in 2018 and Bloom for his part is a catatonic outsider just happy to be there.

 

 

Ok before you claim your head isn’t and won’t be buried in the sand, what exactly do you know as facts? There seem to be a lot of leaps and assumptions going on.

 

So far we know an anonymous player said the Sox stole signs. Possibly not even a player. We also know Cora was involved in a similar scheme one year previous. What else do we really know?

[jung]

Ok before you claim your head isn’t and won’t be buried in the sand, what exactly do you know as facts? There seem to be a lot of leaps and assumptions going on.

 

So far we know an anonymous player said the Sox stole signs. Possibly not even a player. We also know Cora was involved in a similar scheme one year previous. What else do we really know?

 

What do we know? That the Astros Offensive numbers went through the roof in 2017 and they won a championship. We know that the Sox offensive numbers went through the roof in 2018 and they won a championship. The connective thread to these two phenomenon, Alex Cora. They managed to replace without missing a beat the greatest middle of the order bat likely of all time, David Ortiz.

 

I know we want to believe that JD came onto the team and all its hitters genuflected to JD and that was that. Really....Did JD look like a God of hitting in 2019? How do you explain JBJ going off in the 2018 ALCS. I have watched probably more ML AB's by that stiff than anybody on this forum. His swing sucks...it has always sucked and it will always suck. Pearce....Pearce goes off in the WS. Based on what? We got to see the real Pearce when he turned into a pumpkin at midnight and the fat f*** showed up for 2019.

 

We also know, not guess but know that if you give professional hitters a system using in game, real time video and electronics that allows them to understand with high confidence that either a FB or an offspeed/breaking pitch is coming, you have basically given the hitters an advantage that literally corrupts the game at its core. Though its my opinion, you literally should just stop playing the games if you are going to do that. Just stop playing or call it something else because it is no longer baseball.

 

I cannot imagine a greater advantage for one group of players over another in any professional team sport, ANY PROFESSIONAL TEAM SPORT. Football and Spygate can't touch it with a ten foot pole. A corrupted NBA official officiating games can't even touch it. A Manager betting on games can't even touch it.

Edited January 17, 2020 by jung

[Bellhorn04]

They always seem to have a parting press conference, which I never understand. When you let the manager or GM go, why then let the media dig into a fresh wound?

 

You can't really win with the media though. If you say something, it's a story. If you say nothing, that's a story.

[Bellhorn04]

I know we want to believe that JD came onto the team and all its hitters genuflected to JD and that was that. Really....Did JD look like a God of hitting in 2019? How do you explain JBJ going off in the 2018 ALCS. I have watched probably more ML AB's by that stiff than anybody on this forum. His swing sucks...it has always sucked and it will always suck. Pearce....Pearce goes off in the WS. Based on what? We got to see the real Pearce when he turned into a pumpkin at midnight and the fat f*** showed up for 2019.

 

JBJ and Pearce did most of their damage in the 2018 postseason in the other teams' parks. And MLB supposedly had some monitoring of the replay rooms going on then.

 

How do you explain that?

[jung]

Want proof that MLB just keeps on keepin' with its blinders on and expects all of us sheep to just follow along?

 

The Yankees bring in broken down old man Beltran in 2019 and Alex calls it the most significant mid-season acquisition of the year. Based on what Alex? What were you trying to tell us? What was the point? Were you trying to rationalize this nonsense so you and Beltran and those like you could integrate this BS as an integral part of baseball. Are you that f***ed in the head Alex?

 

The Mets utterly oblivious, hire Beltran to manage the Mets for the 2020 season.

[jung]

JBJ and Pearce did most of their damage in the 2018 postseason in the other teams' parks. And MLB supposedly had some monitoring of the replay rooms going on then.

 

How do you explain that?

 

I can't.....but their going off like that just because makes less sense than they had an advantage of some sort. NOTHING in their careers suggested they should have gone off like that....NOTHING!

[Bellhorn04]

I can't.....but their going off like that just because makes less sense than they had an advantage of some sort. NOTHING in their careers suggested they should have gone off like that....NOTHING!

 

JBJ had a hot streak. He's had numerous hot streaks during his career.