2018 Red Sox cheating scandal

[bertha]

I have a feeling he is going to face a lengthy suspension

 

Agree

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

he was .333 / 1.024 with a runner on 2nd base.

 

But JBJ was ALCS MVP because of exactly three hits he had with runners on base, when, allegedly -- since that's all this whole "scandal" really is right now -- the MLB was taking measures to make sure no one was viewing in the video room... hopefully, no one was listening in the audio room, or sniffing in the aroma room, either.

 

I agree with the poster who points out that these are young men who grew up glued to technology. Telling them not to use it -- for any purpose -- would be like a brewery asking my high school football team to guard all the cases in the cold room... "You boys can go in there, but only if you promise not to touch anything."

[jung]

So, now you guys know why for at least 3 seasons now, my complaints about pace of play in game threads has not focused on the pitchers but on the horse s*** from the batters box. All of this stepping out of the Box and Sunday strolling around home plate for nothing more than a pitch the hitter didn't even offer at is just nonsense. It seemed on the surface to be excessive but innocent......just stupid. Something that should not have been tolerated.

 

Sounds like it might not be so innocent after all. Certainly would appear to be time consuming if the video room, runners on base paths, baseline coaches and ultimately the hitters themselves are involved. Its the hitters who have to cover all that time adjusting their crotch, adjusting their gloves, their helmets, stroll around a bit and then go through it all over again until everybody is on the same page.

 

Then where the battery is involved in this mess is that batteries are now changing their sequencing every single pitch. So the catcher first has to indicate the sequence, the pitcher has to pick it up and convince himself and the catcher that he has got it or we are going to be decapitating catchers. That now happens on some teams every single pitch.

 

Time to get away from visible signs between pitcher and catcher. This has gone on too long.

Edited January 9, 2020 by jung

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm not too tech savvy, so I have a question for anyone who might know:

 

Besides the off-limits secret bat cave video rooms, aren't other alternatives constantly at the fingertips of players, coaches and team personnel everywhere in the ballpark? We always see guys looking at tablets in the dugouts, and it's a good bet most own the latest upgrades of smartphones... so why can't they just "pay attention to details" on those devices?

 

Or are they all being monitored by other guys on laptops, desktops, ipads, ipods and iphones???

[jung]

I'm not too tech savvy, so I have a question for anyone who might know:

 

Besides the off-limits secret bat cave video rooms, aren't other alternatives constantly at the fingertips of players, coaches and team personnel everywhere in the ballpark? We always see guys looking at tablets in the dugouts, and it's a good bet most own the latest upgrades of smartphones... so why can't they just "pay attention to details" on those devices?

 

Or are they all being monitored by other guys on laptops, desktops, ipads, ipods and iphones???

 

They are not allowed to use those devices in the dugouts to view live game footage. They can call up tendencies on spread sheets and graphs etc etc But thats it.

[jung]

I should say this for the record. I hate the idea of losing visible signs between the battery mates because it is part of the game between the actual ball action. But it would appear that its being abused and if so, I am just going to have to live without it. I don't see how they can keep it.

[Slasher9]

earpieces. problem solved. this is so easy to fix i just dont know why MLB is so reluctant to embrace tech.

so dumb.

does anyone now care that there are light towers at wrigley field?

does anyone now care that players ride on airplanes to travel to games?

so f***ing stupid.

robot umps NOW.

battery earpieces NOW.

[OH FOY]

he was .333 / 1.024 with a runner on 2nd base.

 

Thanks prove my point more, Runners at 2nd is where you do the sign stealing. That's why they change the signs.

Always happen when a runner is on second. You know that right?

[notin]

Thanks prove my point more, Runners at 2nd is where you do the sign stealing. That's why they change the signs.

Always happen when a runner is on second. You know that right?

 

 

a lot of times now a days they change the sequencing with every pitch. The catcher will flash a series of signs for pitch and location, but they will use something like "strikes plus 1" for the one that matters. meaning if the count is 1-1, the second sign matters. And it stays the second sign until the pitcher throws another strike, when it becomes the third sign.

 

Plenty of teams do this, but how they know what the baseline is to steal signs is beyond me...

[Bellhorn04]

Thanks prove my point more, Runners at 2nd is where you do the sign stealing. That's why they change the signs.

Always happen when a runner is on second. You know that right?

 

That was exactly his point.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

All the batter's box delays and adjusting velcro on batting gloves before every pitch now have me suspecting these may be team-ordered to give personnel more time to scrutinize devices and crack codes. It always bugged me when Mookie took a first-pitch fastball right down the middle that he could crush... but maybe he was just being a team guy.

 

It also makes me wonder the real reason Cora broke something that didn't need fixing, by switching Benintendi to leadoff. Maybe AC didn't want to waste his best hitter taking pitches, but that strategy backfired when Benny swung at a lot of first pitches -- and usually fouled them off to the left (unless he was supposed to...).

 

So much pablum to blab about in an offseason lacking substance.

[notin]

All the batter's box delays and adjusting velcro on batting gloves before every pitch now have me suspecting these may be team-ordered to give personnel more time to scrutinize devices and crack codes. It always bugged me when Mookie took a first-pitch fastball right down the middle that he could crush... but maybe he was just being a team guy.

 

It also makes me wonder the real reason Cora broke something that didn't need fixing, by switching Benintendi to leadoff. Maybe AC didn't want to waste his best hitter taking pitches, but that strategy backfired when Benny swung at a lot of first pitches -- and usually fouled them off to the left (unless he was supposed to...).

 

So much pablum to blab about in an offseason lacking substance.

 

Yeah you might be reaching here....

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yeah you might be reaching here....

 

I hope I am. But any new tech introduced and even deemed legal has just caused more delays and longer games.

 

My dinosaur brain hurts from watching this:

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb-discussing-on-field-wearable-technology-to-prevent-sign-stealing-185641614.html

[jacksonianmarch]

Doing a sequence of 5 signs adds about 2-3 seconds instead of a single sign. Figure there are 150 pitches in a game without a runner on second base (assuming, no data). That's about 450 seconds or another 7.5 minutes added just to account for the "sign stealing".

[notin]

earpieces. problem solved. this is so easy to fix i just dont know why MLB is so reluctant to embrace tech.

so dumb.

does anyone now care that there are light towers at wrigley field?

does anyone now care that players ride on airplanes to travel to games?

so f***ing stupid.

robot umps NOW.

battery earpieces NOW.

 

Not to mention, sometimes the reasons for these traditions was rooted in a long, outdated logic or is simply no longer applicable.

 

Not sure of the history behind pitcher/catcher hand signals, but if it's anything like the history behind the signs used by the fist base coach and third base coach, maybe it can go for the most part. Base coach signalling was only started to accommodate former Red/National/White Sox CF William "Dummy" Hoy, who was deaf.

 

Now if there are any deaf/hard-of-hearing pitchers out there - and there might be (the Angels recently had hard-of-hearing southpaw Kevin Grendell in their minor league system for example), hand signalling will be a necessity for them. But so far, there have only been a handful of deaf players in MLB...

[jung]

Doing a sequence of 5 signs adds about 2-3 seconds instead of a single sign. Figure there are 150 pitches in a game without a runner on second base (assuming, no data). That's about 450 seconds or another 7.5 minutes added just to account for the "sign stealing".

 

That is just one aspect of this mess. If I had to bet, I would bet that 7.5 minutes per game is generous. That would suggest clubs operating like well oiled machines. I don't know any clubs that are well oiled machines. I hate that it has to happen. But I just think batteries using visual signs is just going to go away. If that is what it takes so we can go back to focusing on whether the pitcher is glove up, ball in hand ready to go its a fair trade off. I hate it. But there ya' go.

[notin]

I think they should just all learn to speak Navajo, or, better yet, the pitcher and catcher can have his own codetalker help relay the signs in Navajo. And the batter can't.

 

Of course, this assumes there is a Navajo word for "curveball."...

[a700hitter]

All the batter's box delays and adjusting velcro on batting gloves before every pitch now have me suspecting these may be team-ordered to give personnel more time to scrutinize devices and crack codes. It always bugged me when Mookie took a first-pitch fastball right down the middle that he could crush... but maybe he was just being a team guy.

 

It also makes me wonder the real reason Cora broke something that didn't need fixing, by switching Benintendi to leadoff. Maybe AC didn't want to waste his best hitter taking pitches, but that strategy backfired when Benny swung at a lot of first pitches -- and usually fouled them off to the left (unless he was supposed to...).

 

So much pablum to blab about in an offseason lacking substance.

Benintendi was totally unproductive in the top 2 spots in the order last season. He killed the production of the offense in the first couple of months.

[jacksonianmarch]

I would be fine with a coach calling the game and two earpieces, the problem is, the coach would need to be out of camera and microphone range yet be able to see if the pitcher shakes him off

 

Otherwise, a catcher calling the game would need a microphone and the batter would be able to hear the call. Heck, the broadcast would hear the call and the problem compounds

[Slasher9]

Not to mention, sometimes the reasons for these traditions was rooted in a long, outdated logic or is simply no longer applicable.

 

Not sure of the history behind pitcher/catcher hand signals, but if it's anything like the history behind the signs used by the fist base coach and third base coach, maybe it can go for the most part. Base coach signalling was only started to accommodate former Red/National/White Sox CF William "Dummy" Hoy, who was deaf.

 

Now if there are any deaf/hard-of-hearing pitchers out there - and there might be (the Angels recently had hard-of-hearing southpaw Kevin Grendell in their minor league system for example), hand signalling will be a necessity for them. But so far, there have only been a handful of deaf players in MLB...

 

the deaf dudes will get a vibrating earpiece. 1 buzz FB. 2 buzz CB. etc. like vibrating phone or xbox controller.....

[notin]

the deaf dudes will get a vibrating earpiece. 1 buzz FB. 2 buzz CB. etc. like vibrating phone or xbox controller.....

 

I think hand signals will be fine for now. There have only been like 3 deaf players in MLB history, and only one was a pitcher, and he pitched in the 1860's.

 

Apparently, the Miami Marlins have an A-ball prospect named Cason Sherrod who is a deaf relief pitcher. So he and Grendell (if he ever catches back on anywhere) might be the only two pitchers who need hand signals. The game can survive this...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I would be fine with a coach calling the game and two earpieces, the problem is, the coach would need to be out of camera and microphone range yet be able to see if the pitcher shakes him off

 

Otherwise, a catcher calling the game would need a microphone and the batter would be able to hear the call. Heck, the broadcast would hear the call and the problem compounds

 

... and telescope range, binocular range, drone range and satellite range. Tech isn't going away, and neither are signs and sign-stealing -- they've all been part of the game forever (but just getting more sophisticated). And the MLB knows this isn't a scandal and it isn't on the Red Sox or Astros, even if Manfred or Torre try to pretend it is.

 

The quickest way to cut the crap is to cut the time away from espionage employees by enforcing a pitch-clock and batter's box rule: get in the f***ing box and stay there, and throw the damn ball. A pitcher's repertoire isn't a buffet menu, and the batter still has to hit the ball, even if he thinks he knows what's coming (which has always been the whole point of swinging in the first place).

[mvp 78]

I would be fine with a coach calling the game and two earpieces, the problem is, the coach would need to be out of camera and microphone range yet be able to see if the pitcher shakes him off

 

Otherwise, a catcher calling the game would need a microphone and the batter would be able to hear the call. Heck, the broadcast would hear the call and the problem compounds

No shaking off.

[Slasher9]

in my bluster i forgot one simple fact.....the fielders need to know what type of pitch is being thrown too. especially middle infield.

[Elktonnick]

I think they should just all learn to speak Navajo, or, better yet, the pitcher and catcher can have his own codetalker help relay the signs in Navajo. And the batter can't.

 

Of course, this assumes there is a Navajo word for "curveball."...

 

ahééʼídzoh

[jung]

This is not all that difficult. Its just not baseball and that is what I hate about it. But THIS crap we watch now has not been baseball for a long time now. If I had any sense I would simply give it up.

 

Give them a proprietary coded signaling system for each team. Change the sequencing once an inning as opposed to once a batter. It is going to take some management because pitchers won't much be able to shake off. But this has got to stop. Allowing this crap to continue is not an option.

 

As for pitch clocks and other manipulations with the pitchers and hitters. Good luck with that. We have been trying that for about a decade at least and look where we are. You have to take away the reward for malfeasance and then maybe some of this other crap will matter. As there is a reward for stealing visual signs between battery mates it appears that they will continue to try unless we get rid of the visual signs. Big money and technology in baseball......this was bound to happen.

Edited January 10, 2020 by jung

[Bellhorn04]

The simplest thing would be take away all video from teams.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The simplest thing would be take away all video from teams.

 

Did you ever work in an elementary, middle or high school and try taking away a cellphone from a student?

 

These are kids blatantly breaking the rules of a classroom (texting, playing games, even taking pics of exams) but they will fight you harder than if it was an ice cream cone or their puppy.

[jung]

The simplest thing would be take away all video from teams.

 

Absaf***INGtively.

 

Replay in baseball has been as poorly implemented as I thought it would be. Its a joke. The way its used on the basepaths is not baseball. Keep the equipment in place and send the video up to MLB on a proprietary video feed. I could care less what the frigging teams think should be reviewed.

 

Lets the Managers go out and argue calls again. In the meantime if headquarters thinks a catch or a HR should be reviewed, FINE. Maybe plays at the plate....FINE. Other then that, it has been a massive failure IMO, just a complete buzz kill. Give me Managers going out on the diamond to tussle with the field umps again. You kids don't know what you are missing.

Edited January 10, 2020 by jung

[notin]

The simplest thing would be take away all video from teams.

 

 

The simplest thing would be to enforce the existing pitch clock rules