Fire Chaim Bloom!

[Kimmi]

I think he will make one splash signing or deal but with the longer term in mind.

 

He'll still have plenty of budget space to make plenty of smaller type additions.

 

Trevor Bauer is the obvious Big Splash. But I can see why he could and maybe should be avoided. If Bloom signs him, load that contract with opt outs!! Otherwise he could be Price 2.0...

 

It's possible that Dombrowski makes a big splash signing, but I really don't know who that would be. Bauer's name comes up quite a bit, but the guy is almost 30, and we should have learned our lesson about signing pitchers over 30 to long contracts. Even with opt outs, he will only opt out if he's pitching well.

 

The FO wants to find young, cost controlled pitching. They aren't finding that in free agency.

 

If they wanted to make a big splash with a position player, then why wouldn't they just re-sign Mookie? Granted, they can find a player who won't require the number of years that re-signing Mookie did.

[Kimmi]

I don't see Bauer as being Blooms first big splash. It's not like there are a bunch of other "splash" pitchers out there, this winter.

 

Who knows.

 

Who is there in free agency that Bloom would want to sign to a long term deal? Realmuto? I suppose if Vaz is traded for pitching, that could happen. But I wouldn't pay that kind of money for him.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Trevor Bauer is the obvious Big Splash. But I can see why he could and maybe should be avoided. If Bloom signs him, load that contract with opt outs!! Otherwise he could be Price 2.0...

 

This may be a bigger factor than fans here consider -- and I'm not referring to talent or diminishing abilities that come with age.

 

In dumping Price, Boston management didn't just shed payroll, but also got rid of a public relations headache. Bauer's extroverted personality also might come with antics that would be unacceptable on a rebuilding team trying to win back its fan base.

 

Remember, Bill "Spaceman" Lee was only tolerated in the much-more liberal Beantown of the 1970s as long as he and the team were winning...

[Bellhorn04]

Remember, Bill "Spaceman" Lee was only tolerated in the much-more liberal Beantown of the 1970s as long as he and the team were winning...

 

Spaceman was traded because of a personal vendetta of Don Zimmer's.

 

The team was winning at the time and Bill was coming off a decent season.

 

It was just one of the team's epically stupid moves of the 70's.

[jacksonianmarch]

It's possible that Dombrowski makes a big splash signing, but I really don't know who that would be. Bauer's name comes up quite a bit, but the guy is almost 30, and we should have learned our lesson about signing pitchers over 30 to long contracts. Even with opt outs, he will only opt out if he's pitching well.

 

The FO wants to find young, cost controlled pitching. They aren't finding that in free agency.

 

If they wanted to make a big splash with a position player, then why wouldn't they just re-sign Mookie? Granted, they can find a player who won't require the number of years that re-signing Mookie did.

 

Bloom’s biggest deal in TB was Morton for 2 years. My bet is he either finds a trade partner to get young pitching or he goes older veteran pitcher on a short term deal. If you go with Bauer, you’re locked into one player for a long time and it matters not what his production or durability is, you’re stuck with him. You go out and sign a guy like (not saying you should, but just as an example) Happ for 1 year and a vesting option, you get out of it fast if he falls off a cliff.

[Kimmi]

Bloom’s biggest deal in TB was Morton for 2 years. My bet is he either finds a trade partner to get young pitching or he goes older veteran pitcher on a short term deal. If you go with Bauer, you’re locked into one player for a long time and it matters not what his production or durability is, you’re stuck with him. You go out and sign a guy like (not saying you should, but just as an example) Happ for 1 year and a vesting option, you get out of it fast if he falls off a cliff.

 

100% agree. I'm not saying that Bloom won't ever sign a bigger deal (he will), but I'm thinking for this year, it's going to be the stop gap type deals for free agents and/or trading for young pitching.

[moonslav59]

Who is there in free agency that Bloom would want to sign to a long term deal? Realmuto? I suppose if Vaz is traded for pitching, that could happen. But I wouldn't pay that kind of money for him.

 

Like I said, I don't see many that fit our immediate needs, so you may be right.

 

Ozuna?

Springer?

LeMahieu? (Trade Downs and others for pitching?)

 

Less splashy

Hendricks

Colome

Green/

Walker/ Tanaka/ Minor/ Ray/ Odorizzi/ Quintana/ Paxton

Brantley

 

[notin]

Spaceman was traded because of a personal vendetta of Don Zimmer's.

 

The team was winning at the time and Bill was coming off a decent season.

 

It was just one of the team's epically stupid moves of the 70's.

 

Correct.

 

In fact, Lee had issues with Zimmer not starting him in games in 1978 against the Yankees as part of this quarrel. And according to Lee, that decision prevented the Sox from winning the 1978 pennant...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Correct.

 

In fact, Lee had issues with Zimmer not starting him in games in 1978 against the Yankees as part of this quarrel. And according to Lee, that decision prevented the Sox from winning the 1978 pennant...

 

I lived it, even talked to Lee about it a couple times in Boston back then. When I said winning, I meant when he was allowed to help the Sox win the pennant -- which he was no longer permitted to do after publicly mocking Zim. The old guys in the press were also tired of his act (except Gammons, who was in his prime and not yet old).

[harmony]

Like I said, I don't see many that fit our immediate needs, so you may be right.

 

Ozuna?

Springer?

LeMahieu? (Trade Downs and others for pitching?)

 

Less splashy

Hendricks

Colome

Green/

Walker/ Tanaka/ Minor/ Ray/ Odorizzi/ Quintana/ Paxton

Brantley

Taijuan Walker and James Paxton will return to the up-and-coming Seattle Mariners.

 

Or not.

[Slasher9]

Taijuan Walker and James Paxton will return to the up-and-coming Seattle Mariners.

 

Or not.

 

what is the expiration date on "up and coming"? they have been up and coming for 17 years now. or not.

[vegasbob]

Does Bloom owe Roenicke a quick decision on being retained or let go, in return for taking on this crapshoot of a season ? I am wagering that by Tuesday PM, RR is in or out for 2021. 65-35 says out, mostly because some real energy will be needed to get this bunch refocused next Spring. They just sleepwalked through 2 seasons

[illinoisredsox]

Does Bloom owe Roenicke a quick decision on being retained or let go, in return for taking on this crapshoot of a season ? I am wagering that by Tuesday PM, RR is in or out for 2021. 65-35 says out, mostly because some real energy will be needed to get this bunch refocused next Spring. They just sleepwalked through 2 seasons

 

Which bunch would that be? A lot of these guys won’t be there next year.

 

Don’t confuse sleepwalking with lack of talent (of which this team was lacking a bunch).

[Maxbialystock]

Bloom sure looks like a carbon copy of Epstein--Yalie who loved baseball (but only Theo played in HS but not at Yale) and went into MLB right out of college.

 

However, three big differences: 1) Bloom grew up in one system, the Rays, which placed a premium on developing players because buying them was out of the question--the Rays have consistently had team payrolls near the bottom of MLB; 2) Bloom literally wrote the book for the Rays system of developing players, especially pitchers, which has proven to be very successful; 3) Bloom's entire MLB experience was with the Rays, whereas Epstein worked for the Orioles and Padres before coming to Boston, which means Epstein was/is probably more adaptable.

 

I think Chaim Bloom was a great hire, but I am less sure that he will be a good fit because the Sox are consistently profitable even when John Henry approves team salaries among the highest in MLB. Neither he nor his GMs nor the Red Sox Nation are known for their patience.

 

Also, if Chaim Bloom intends to overhaul the Sox entire system, how receptive will all those scouts, coaches, minor league managers. etc be? The movie Moneyball exaggerated (for dramatic effect) the negative reactions of the scouts, A's announcers, and especially manager Art Howe to all the trades and moves Billy Bean made, but there was a kernel of truth in there. Heck, had I been an A's fan, I would have said Billy Bean was nuts.

 

My guess is that Chaim Bloom, who wrote an article published in Baseball Prospectus in 1997 (when he was 14) and has therefore been a real student of the game for 23 years and an MLB professional for 15 years, already knows all of the above and will steer a course that blends the three approaches: 1) spending some real money where it makes sense, but 2) bringing team salaries down comfortably below the MLB salary cap, and 3) at the same time building a badly needed system for developing players, especially pitchers. Item 2 has already begun, and 3 has probably been initiated in some form, but so far I haven't seen examples of 1 (spending real money on players where it makes sense).

Edited October 15, 2020 by Maxbialystock

[mvp 78]

Bloom sure looks like a carbon copy of Epstein--Yalie who loved baseball (but only Theo played in HS but not at Yale) and went into MLB right out of college.

 

However, three big differences: 1) Bloom grew up in one system, the Rays, which placed a premium on developing players because buying them was out of the question--the Rays have consistently had team payrolls near the bottom of MLB; 2) Bloom literally wrote the book for the Rays system of developing players, especially pitchers, which has proven to be very successful; 3) Bloom's entire MLB experience was with the Rays, whereas Epstein worked for the Orioles and Padres before coming to Boston, which means Epstein was/is probably more adaptable.

 

I think Chaim Bloom was a great hire, but I am less sure that he will be a good fit because the Sox are consistently profitable even when John Henry approves team salaries among the highest in MLB. Neither he nor his GMs nor the Red Sox Nation are known for their patience.

 

Also, if Chaim Bloom intends to overhaul the Sox entire system, how receptive will all those scouts, coaches, minor league managers. etc be? The movie Moneyball exaggerated the negative reactions of the scouts and especially manager Art Howe to all the trades, etc Billy Beane made for dramatic effect, but there was a kernel of truth in there.

 

I think the current scouting department is not very similar to the pre-Moneyball days. Eddie Romero Jr is still with the club. I think Bloom came here because there was already a decent system. He just needed to do a few tweaks, not a complete overhaul.

[mvp 78]

Also, the word was that most of the scouting department was unhappy with the direction Dombrowski was going. I'm sure they are far happier (and valued) under Bloom.

[Maxbialystock]

I think the current scouting department is not very similar to the pre-Moneyball days. Eddie Romero Jr is still with the club. I think Bloom came here because there was already a decent system. He just needed to do a few tweaks, not a complete overhaul.

 

No doubt you are right about the scouting, but there is overwhelming evidence that the Sox don't know diddly about developing pitchers.

[Maxbialystock]

Also, the word was that most of the scouting department was unhappy with the direction Dombrowski was going. I'm sure they are far happier (and valued) under Bloom.

 

No doubt, but being more interested in scouting than DD was is a pretty low hurdle.

[notin]

No doubt you are right about the scouting, but there is overwhelming evidence that the Sox don't know diddly about developing pitchers.

 

The Sox have only developed a handful of pitchers since Aaron Sele in 1991. Whatever the problem is, it goes well beyond just personnel. They've had scores of people simply not doing this for a long time.

 

Part of the problem is trading arms away, but even then it doesn't create n impressive total...

[mvp 78]

No doubt you are right about the scouting, but there is overwhelming evidence that the Sox don't know diddly about developing pitchers.

 

Is it the drafting or the developing?

[mvp 78]

The Sox have only developed a handful of pitchers since Aaron Sele in 1991. Whatever the problem is, it goes well beyond just personnel. They've had scores of people simply not doing this for a long time.

 

Part of the problem is trading arms away, but even then it doesn't create n impressive total...

 

Bad luck? They were good at developing pitchers prior to then (Eck, Clemens, Schilling).

[notin]

Bad luck? They were good at developing pitchers prior to then (Eck, Clemens, Schilling).

 

They didn't develop Eckersley. They acquired him from the Guardians for Rick Wise, Mike Paxton, Bo Diaz and Ted "Thunder" Cox. So basically for Wise and nothing else.

 

Eck was only 23 at the time, but he already had 40 career wins and a no hitter to his credit...

[mvp 78]

They didn't develop Eckersley. They acquired him from the Guardians for Rick Wise, Mike Paxton, Bo Diaz and Ted "Thunder" Cox. So basically for Wise and nothing else.

 

Eck was only 23 at the time, but he already had 40 career wins and a no hitter to his credit...

 

He was just a kid! Sox did the heavy lifting of rearing him!

[Maxbialystock]

Is it the drafting or the developing?

 

From what I've read about Bloom's system, you have to be good at both. You have to know what to look for in young arms and you have to have a tried and tested system for helping them reach their potential.

[mvp 78]

From what I've read about Bloom's system, you have to be good at both. You have to know what to look for in young arms and you have to have a tried and tested system for helping them reach their potential.

 

Seems like it helped Houck this year.

[Maxbialystock]

Bad luck? They were good at developing pitchers prior to then (Eck, Clemens, Schilling).

 

Schilling came to the Sox at the end of his career--the last stop before retiring. Clemens was drafted in 1983 and started 20 games for the Boston Red Sox in 1984 (when he was 22), so I have my doubts about the genius of the Sox pitching coaches. I think he arrived almost fully formed with a great fastball and pretty good control. Two years later he went 24-4 with a WAR of 8.8. See Notin's post on Eck.

 

I honestly think you know your baseball, so the fact that even you can't think of any pitchers the Sox really developed suggests that they are indeed clueless.

[notin]

Schilling came to the Sox at the end of his career--the last stop before retiring. Clemens was drafted in 1983 and started 20 games for the Boston Red Sox in 1984 (when he was 22), so I have my doubts about the genius of the Sox pitching coaches. I think he arrived almost fully formed with a great fastball and pretty good control. Two years later he went 24-4 with a WAR of 8.8. See Notin's post on Eck.

 

I honestly think you know your baseball, so the fact that even you can't think of any pitchers the Sox really developed suggests that they are indeed clueless.

 

Schilling was originally drafted and signed by the Sox, but was dealt to Baltimore in a trade for Mike Boddicker...

[Maxbialystock]

Seems like it helped Houck this year.

 

A palpable hit. Nothing like some sarcasm to spice things up.

[Maxbialystock]

Schilling was originally drafted and signed by the Sox, but was dealt to Baltimore in a trade for Mike Boddicker...

 

True. And when he arrived at Baltimore in 1988 (age 22) he was lousy and stayed that way until Houston traded him to Philly, where he was excellent his first year there, 1992 (age 26). Thereafter, 1993-2007, he was pretty reliable when he wasn't injured. My guess is the Sox coaches did their level best to screw him up and he was lucky to escape to Baltimore, Houston, and finally Philly, where he blossomed.

[dgalehouse]

No doubt, but being more interested in scouting than DD was is a pretty low hurdle.

 

According to the scoreboard , they did pretty well under D.D.