Chaim Bloom in as DD replacement

[cp176]

I didn't think a lot of fans pointed at DD for this years failures. That had to be placed primarily on the players and coaches. DD was constrained by the budget limitations (those he helped create) but that was the primary arrea of blame. What I thought most fans were saying is that DD's methods would not be the best approach for dealing with a team with a bloated payroll, a weak farm and a number of underperforming contracts. Clearly the ownership is looking for a reset this year and someone more suited to making that happen, while starting to rebuild the farm was sought. Bloom is a guy who appears to meet those traits, so without blaming DD we are moving on to different methods.

 

 

Obviously something different is going to happen. It should be very positive. I'm not sure though who you are referring to as "most fans". If you think that they all were DD haters at the end, i think that you would be quite surprised. I'm not sure that I really understand the concept of a reset but I do not for one second think that John Henry isn't going to do what he can right now to keep the fan base in the seats. People still want to see their team win now. Expecting fans to wait for a few years I don't think is likely to go over very well.

[moonslav59]

Obviously something different is going to happen. It should be very positive. I'm not sure though who you are referring to as "most fans". If you think that they all were DD haters at the end, i think that you would be quite surprised. I'm not sure that I really understand the concept of a reset but I do not for one second think that John Henry isn't going to do what he can right now to keep the fan base in the seats. People still want to see their team win now. Expecting fans to wait for a few years I don't think is likely to go over very well.

 

Paying a 50% tax is absurd. I can see disagreeing with a reset, but not understanding it is different.

 

Spending just under the tax is still more than 25+ teams, so it should be enough to compete. If not, something is wrong.

[Bellhorn04]

And yet here we are...

 

I blame medical science. It's obviously overrated.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

This post isn't exactly written to defend Dombrowski, but something I've been thinking about a long time: the unpredictable performances of acquired established relievers. Most of us didn't mind letting Kimbrel and Kelly walk, but were concerned DD didn't replace them with "names". Ottavino could have been had and kept out of pinstripes...he had a solid regular season but a bad post, and now he gets to face New York fans and press for two more years.

 

DD was notorious for neglecting the pen in Detroit ("DavidOrtizDavidOrtiz") but upon reflection, it's not like he didn't try here. Carson Smith and Tyler Thornburg were total busts but both had really good seasons for other clubs the year before he traded for them; there was actually an article written on one site using analytics that cited Thornburg as a sleeper power arm that GMs should target. Addison Reed was ok for half a season. Kimbrel was great but then a great risk, and let go just in time. Kelly was a converted MLB starter.

 

But such fluctuations have been a pattern for at least a decade, as the pitiful history of relief recruits began before Dombro, with three crap trades for All-Star closers who were worthless in Boston: Andrew Bailey, Mark Melancon and Joel Hanrahan. If there's a lesson in such deals whose results are so mercurial, maybe it's don't swap position players for bullpen arms that tend to burn out quickly under modern usage (for example, keep the likes of Reddick, Lowrie, Travis Shaw, Dubon, etc).

 

I am intrigued to see how Bloom alters the pitching staff. The best trade deadline pick-up this summer was the Rays getting Nick Anderson from Miami. Tampa gave up Ryne Stanek, which I thought odd since he was their number one opener; at best, the deal seemed like a wash. But maybe it makes more sense to target a young arm to fill a specific need by offering up another young arm (which won't weaken position player depth). The Rays also pulled this off with Boston in '18, giving up Eovaldi for Beeks. Stay tuned...

[moonslav59]

This post isn't exactly written to defend Dombrowski, but something I've been thinking about a long time: the unpredictable performances of acquired established relievers. Most of us didn't mind letting Kimbrel and Kelly walk, but were concerned DD didn't replace them with "names". Ottavino could have been had and kept out of pinstripes...he had a solid regular season but a bad post, and now he gets to face New York fans and press for two more years.

 

DD was notorious for neglecting the pen in Detroit ("DavidOrtizDavidOrtiz") but upon reflection, it's not like he didn't try here. Carson Smith and Tyler Thornburg were total busts but both had really good seasons for other clubs the year before he traded for them; there was actually an article written on one site using analytics that cited Thornburg as a sleeper power arm that GMs should target. Addison Reed was ok for half a season. Kimbrel was great but then a great risk, and let go just in time. Kelly was a converted MLB starter.

 

But such fluctuations have been a pattern for at least a decade, as the pitiful history of relief recruits began before Dombro, with three crap trades for All-Star closers who were worthless in Boston: Andrew Bailey, Mark Melancon and Joel Hanrahan. If there's a lesson in such deals whose results are so mercurial, maybe it's don't swap position players for bullpen arms that tend to burn out quickly under modern usage (for example, keep the likes of Reddick, Lowrie, Travis Shaw, Dubon, etc).

 

I am intrigued to see how Bloom alters the pitching staff. The best trade deadline pick-up this summer was the Rays getting Nick Anderson from Miami. Tampa gave up Ryne Stanek, which I thought odd since he was their number one opener; at best, the deal seemed like a wash. But maybe it makes more sense to target a young arm to fill a specific need by offering up another young arm (which won't weaken position player depth). The Rays also pulled this off with Boston in '18, giving up Eovaldi for Beeks. Stay tuned...

 

Most of the top 10-15 RP'er from last year's FA market sucked this year.

 

The odds were against DD picking the right one.

 

I like Ottavino, too, but I also liked Cody Allen as a cheaper get.

[notin]

This post isn't exactly written to defend Dombrowski, but something I've been thinking about a long time: the unpredictable performances of acquired established relievers. Most of us didn't mind letting Kimbrel and Kelly walk, but were concerned DD didn't replace them with "names". Ottavino could have been had and kept out of pinstripes...he had a solid regular season but a bad post, and now he gets to face New York fans and press for two more years.

 

DD was notorious for neglecting the pen in Detroit ("DavidOrtizDavidOrtiz") but upon reflection, it's not like he didn't try here. Carson Smith and Tyler Thornburg were total busts but both had really good seasons for other clubs the year before he traded for them; there was actually an article written on one site using analytics that cited Thornburg as a sleeper power arm that GMs should target. Addison Reed was ok for half a season. Kimbrel was great but then a great risk, and let go just in time. Kelly was a converted MLB starter.

 

But such fluctuations have been a pattern for at least a decade, as the pitiful history of relief recruits began before Dombro, with three crap trades for All-Star closers who were worthless in Boston: Andrew Bailey, Mark Melancon and Joel Hanrahan. If there's a lesson in such deals whose results are so mercurial, maybe it's don't swap position players for bullpen arms that tend to burn out quickly under modern usage (for example, keep the likes of Reddick, Lowrie, Travis Shaw, Dubon, etc).

 

I am intrigued to see how Bloom alters the pitching staff. The best trade deadline pick-up this summer was the Rays getting Nick Anderson from Miami. Tampa gave up Ryne Stanek, which I thought odd since he was their number one opener; at best, the deal seemed like a wash. But maybe it makes more sense to target a young arm to fill a specific need by offering up another young arm (which won't weaken position player depth). The Rays also pulled this off with Boston in '18, giving up Eovaldi for Beeks. Stay tuned...

 

The Rays also got Trevor Richards in that deal, who looked outstanding last spring and carried it over into the regular season. And gave up a top 30 prospect. I’m not so sure Anderson was anything more than a 28yo journeyman rookie having a career year only to be never heard from again.

 

The problem teams face with the bullpen is that they still use it as a dumping ground for pitchers not good enough for the rotation. But in this day, relievers handle nearly 50% of the IP. It makes sense to me to keep a young pitcher like Darwinzon Hernandez in a role where he will have a higher percentage of high leverage IP than one based solely on volume of IP...

[cp176]

Paying a 50% tax is absurd. I can see disagreeing with a reset, but not understanding it is different.

 

Spending just under the tax is still more than 25+ teams, so it should be enough to compete. If not, something is wrong.

 

I don't disagree with you. You obviously think that I do and that is ok. I should have been more specific I guess like maybe - It sounds like there are people here who think that JH will be content with an inferior product on the field and might be willing to accept the idea that people think that it is ok for us to not be competitive for a few years because of all the good stuff that lies ahead. That is indeed absurd. He knows exactly what he is doing and he wants people to fill those seats.

Salaries in general are out of control. I really don't think that thinking a team spending big is going to necessarily play big is accurate thinking in today's world. you don't always get what you pay for. I'll reiterate, I like the Bloom hire and wish him well. he looks like a good one.

Do you really think that even though I might have said as much that i don't understand what a reset is?

[notin]

I blame medical science. It's obviously overrated.

 

Bring back leeches!! No player receiving the Leech Treatment for bad blood ever missed additional time!!

[moonslav59]

I don't disagree with you. You obviously think that I do and that is ok. I should have been more specific I guess like maybe - It sounds like there are people here who think that JH will be content with an inferior product on the field and might be willing to accept the idea that people think that it is ok for us to not be competitive for a few years because of all the good stuff that lies ahead. That is indeed absurd. He knows exactly what he is doing and he wants people to fill those seats.

Salaries in general are out of control. I really don't think that thinking a team spending big is going to necessarily play big is accurate thinking in today's world. you don't always get what you pay for. I'll reiterate, I like the Bloom hire and wish him well. he looks like a good one.

Do you really think that even though I might have said as much that i don't understand what a reset is?

 

No, I know you know what it is. I thought you didn't understand why we'd want to or feel the need to reset.

 

After this post, I get where you're coming from and agree 100%.

 

I think Bloom can keep us competitive without going over the line, and hopefully he can rebuild the farm at the same time.

 

Usually, our roster has only a few openings (40 and 25 man), but this year we should have plenty. It's perfect for a GM like Bloom to fill in the slots with low cost but talented players.

[notin]

I don't disagree with you. You obviously think that I do and that is ok. I should have been more specific I guess like maybe - It sounds like there are people here who think that JH will be content with an inferior product on the field and might be willing to accept the idea that people think that it is ok for us to not be competitive for a few years because of all the good stuff that lies ahead. That is indeed absurd. He knows exactly what he is doing and he wants people to fill those seats.

Salaries in general are out of control. I really don't think that thinking a team spending big is going to necessarily play big is accurate thinking in today's world. you don't always get what you pay for. I'll reiterate, I like the Bloom hire and wish him well. he looks like a good one.

Do you really think that even though I might have said as much that i don't understand what a reset is?

 

 

I think the Sox want a competitive team, just one that costs less than $208million. That’s hardly impossible...

[moonslav59]

I think the Sox want a competitive team, just one that costs less than $208million. That’s hardly impossible...

 

If we lose JBJ and Hembree and add nobody, we should still be over .500. I'm hopeful this GM can add a few low-cost players that will shine.

[Slasher9]

I don't disagree with you. You obviously think that I do and that is ok. I should have been more specific I guess like maybe - It sounds like there are people here who think that JH will be content with an inferior product on the field and might be willing to accept the idea that people think that it is ok for us to not be competitive for a few years because of all the good stuff that lies ahead. That is indeed absurd. He knows exactly what he is doing and he wants people to fill those seats.

Salaries in general are out of control. I really don't think that thinking a team spending big is going to necessarily play big is accurate thinking in today's world. you don't always get what you pay for. I'll reiterate, I like the Bloom hire and wish him well. he looks like a good one.

Do you really think that even though I might have said as much that i don't understand what a reset is?

 

the seats at fenway are always full. JH is more worried about eyes on the TV screen (nesn)......

he has to weigh that against the insanity of the LT tax he's been paying and projected to pay if:

a) he doesnt reset this year

2) he want to sign Mookie to a LTC when he hits FA

III) the cold shoulder his wifey gives him for emptying her checking account on baseball player "tax"

[moonslav59]

the seats at fenway are always full. JH is more worried about eyes on the TV screen (nesn)......

he has to weigh that against the insanity of the LT tax he's been paying and projected to pay if:

a) he doesnt reset this year

2) he want to sign Mookie to a LTC when he hits FA

III) the cold shoulder his wifey gives him for emptying her checking account on baseball player "tax"

 

I also think there's a pride aspect to it all.

 

If you outspend other top spenders by $10-30M and others by $130M+, people expect you to win. When you do, they say, "You bought the championships."

 

I think it feels better to win, when you aren't the biggest spender on the block. (Just conjecture on my part.)

[harmony]

I also think there's a pride aspect to it all.

 

If you outspend other top spenders by $10-30M and others by $130M+, people expect you to win. When you do, they say, "You bought the championships."

 

I think it feels better to win, when you aren't the biggest spender on the block. (Just conjecture on my part.)

The Red Sox have won enough to advance to the postseason in half of the years this decade, capturing two World Series titles.

[Elktonnick]

the seats at fenway are always full. JH is more worried about eyes on the TV screen (nesn)......

he has to weigh that against the insanity of the LT tax he's been paying and projected to pay if:

a) he doesnt reset this year

2) he want to sign Mookie to a LTC when he hits FA

III) the cold shoulder his wifey gives him for emptying her checking account on baseball player "tax"

 

There were a number of teams who used to have full stadiums too. However years of mismanagement by ownership caused attendance to slide. Baltimore is a perfect example. I can well remember when Fenway was more empty than full. It is a gross miscalculation to think that Boston sports fans would continue to support a feckless Red Sox team ad infinatum just because they did so in the past.

[Tedballgame]

I'm far from giving up on Sale earning his salary.

 

IMO, he could have surgery, miss a whole season and maybe still earn his contract by having 4 typical Sale dominating seasons.

I'm not giving up on Sale coming back next year and pitching well.

[Tedballgame]

Most of the top 10-15 RP'er from last year's FA market sucked this year.

 

The odds were against DD picking the right one.

 

I like Ottavino, too, but I also liked Cody Allen as a cheaper get.

They should have went after Charlie Morton and Ottavino instead of Pearce and Eovaldi but hindsight is 20/20.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox have won enough to advance to the postseason in half of the years this decade, capturing two World Series titles.

 

Yes, and to me, I'm prouder of the ones we won without being the highest spender. (Not that we ever won by being a low spender.)

[moonslav59]

I'm not giving up on Sale coming back next year and pitching well.

 

Me, too. I'm still happy he's on our team.

 

The guy is a fierce competitor, and if anyone can come back from whatever is bothering him, it's...

 

Chris Freakin' Sale!

 

[Kimmi]

I have read two articles from independent national writers who both suggested that up until now he was the most qualified guy in baseball without the GM title.

 

Seemingly, everyone in baseball speaks very highly of him, not only in terms of his talent in building teams, but also in terms of his ability to work with and as a team.

[Kimmi]

I will be happy if Bloom can start us on the path to a better farm, keep us somewhat competitive and also start the process of recovering from DD's excesses. I do not believe all that can be done in a year or even two, but I want to see a positive direction. When we get closer to championship quality, we can spend the money after making the effort to reset first.

 

Bloom sounds like he is the anti-Dombrowski.

 

His priority is sustainability and competitiveness over the long term. It can be done!

 

He is also supposedly 'cutting edge'

 

Young Theo, 2.0.

 

My man.

[Kimmi]

Make no mistake about it the current red sox team is a championship quality team with one or two additions. Henry's decision to move under the LT is his decision that will lead to the deconstruction of a championship team. Let's be clear about that.

 

Not necessarily so. We might need to remove a player or two, but other players can be added for a lesser cost, all while maintaining the championship quality.

[Kimmi]

cp, a lot of fans love the blame game, and it's not just DD who has had the finger pointed at him for this year's failures. Cora has been raked on the coals pretty good for the spring training program and other issues. A few here have called for him to be fired too. And our pitching coaches have already been canned.

 

And others, while not fans of Dombrowski, have clearly said that Dombrowski is not to be blamed for this year's failures.

[Kimmi]

Thank you for pointing this out. It's what I've been thinking & alluding to all along. It's certainly JH's right to deconstruct this team - after all, he's the owner. However, he's deconstructing a team that's only a couple of pitchers comebacks away from another real run at a championship and trading it for a mediocre (at best) season.

 

I'm in hopes that this new GM will put a different spin on 2020, that the Sox can make another run at it. If they're successful JH will reap the playoff profits. If it's apparent that they're going to be unsuccessful by the trade deadline they can be sellers, fall in the standings, reap the draft pick and start the rebuild.

 

It seems a shame to waste this talent.

 

I 100% cannot see Henry deconstructing the team to the point where they are not competitive. There is too much talent on the team still under contract. We will be competitive in 2020. The reset might not come until 2021.

[Kimmi]

John Henry is a smart man and he understands very well the balances between the short-term and long-term, and between making money and putting a team on the field that keeps fans interested.

 

Except he allowed Dombrowski to disregard the long term.

[Kimmi]

Actually many of us said that DD would decimate the Farm when he was hired. that is exactly what he did. on top of that he also buried us with 3 SP contracts that look not so great for us now in SPE (props to Bell that is a great acronym for our 3 high paid/oft injured starters).

Bloom has a rep for building competitive teams at low cost while also building a strong foundation of young (see: inexpensive) pitching. hopefully he does as good of a job doing what we expect him to do as DD did......

 

Post of the day!

[Kimmi]

I'm not giving up on Sale coming back next year and pitching well.

 

I fully expect all 3, Sale, Price, and Eovaldi to rebound next year. I don't expect a return to prime years for Sale and Price, but I do expect them to be better than they were last year.

[Elktonnick]

I fully expect all 3, Sale, Price, and Eovaldi to rebound next year. I don't expect a return to prime years for Sale and Price, but I do expect them to be better than they were last year.

 

If they do rebound then this team as is contends.

[Kimmi]

If they do rebound then this team as is contends.

 

Absolutely.

[notin]

the seats at fenway are always full. JH is more worried about eyes on the TV screen (nesn)......

he has to weigh that against the insanity of the LT tax he's been paying and projected to pay if:

a) he doesnt reset this year

2) he want to sign Mookie to a LTC when he hits FA

III) the cold shoulder his wifey gives him for emptying her checking account on baseball player "tax"

 

I think Henry would have no issues paying the tax if he still made a profit. But when you have a quarter billion dollar mediocrity machine, I can see the cause for alarm on his part...