A Realistic View at 2020: Part I

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I’ve frequently posted Dalbec as trade bait. But if the Sox move Devers to 1b, put Dalbec at 3b, and deal Chavis for a useful piece (pitcher? Outfielder?), that makes sense too

 

Or vers vice-a...

[mvp 78]

I’ve frequently posted Dalbec as trade bait. But if the Sox move Devers to 1b, put Dalbec at 3b, and deal Chavis for a useful piece (pitcher? Outfielder?), that makes sense too

 

Devers is better at 3b tho?

[notin]

Devers is better at 3b tho?

 

Better at 3b than 1b or better at 3b than Dalbec?

[moonslav59]

Dalbec is the best defensive 3Bman out of Dalbec, Devers & Chavis.

 

Maybe Chavis's stock rose a bit due to his hot first 3 weeks in MLB and timely hitting thereafter.

 

If I was going to trade any of the 3, it would be Chavis, but since we have a need at 2B and 1B, we might just keep all 3.

 

To me, Travis is all but gone. I'd give Ockimey a look-see as a possible 1B platoon (or DH, if we trade JD), but I think I'm in a small minority on him.

 

Not thinking of player psyches or anything, our best alignment might be 3B Dalbec, 1B Devers, 2B Chavis, but I wouldn't mess with Devers, at this point. He improved a lot over 2019 on defense, and I don't want to distract him at all.

 

If we plan to trade Dalbec or Chavis, I vote Chavis. We have Lin, Marco & Chatham to fight for the 2B job, or we can sign a cheap 2Bman, if they flop.

[notin]

Dalbec is the best defensive 3Bman out of Dalbec, Devers & Chavis.

 

Maybe Chavis's stock rose a bit due to his hot first 3 weeks in MLB and timely hitting thereafter.

 

If I was going to trade any of the 3, it would be Chavis, but since we have a need at 2B and 1B, we might just keep all 3.

 

To me, Travis is all but gone. I'd give Ockimey a look-see as a possible 1B platoon (or DH, if we trade JD), but I think I'm in a small minority on him.

 

Not thinking of player psyches or anything, our best alignment might be 3B Dalbec, 1B Devers, 2B Chavis, but I wouldn't mess with Devers, at this point. He improved a lot over 2019 on defense, and I don't want to distract him at all.

 

If we plan to trade Dalbec or Chavis, I vote Chavis. We have Lin, Marco & Chatham to fight for the 2B job, or we can sign a cheap 2Bman, if they flop.

 

Liking Kiluchi for 2b.

 

The Sox won’t get him, but apparently he is a very exciting player...

[Kimmi]

Budgies unite!

 

Unfortunately, I cannot unite with the Budgies. Looking at the team budget in minute detail is something that is just not appealing to me.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I know there are some posters who think very highly of Dalbec's defense, but I didn't watch enough minor league games last year to see for myself. I did see how shaky Devers was the first month, and the steady improvement he made at third throughout the summer. He became so comfortable and confident that his bat went off en route to leading the MLB with 90 extra-base hits.

 

Unless Dalbec is the next Arenado, I wouldn't consider moving Devers... except maybe to Cincy if the Reds called Chaim with an offer of Castillo and Aquino.

[notin]

I know there are some posters who think very highly of Dalbec's defense, but I didn't watch enough minor league games last year to see for myself. I did see how shaky Devers was the first month, and the steady improvement he made at third throughout the summer. He became so comfortable and confident that his bat went off en route to leading the MLB with 90 extra-base hits.

 

Unless Dalbec is the next Arenado, I wouldn't consider moving Devers... except maybe to Cincy if the Reds called Chaim with an offer of Castillo and Aquino.

 

Some ballplayers are certainly superstitious, and some probably about position. But Devers might not be. Not sure if the Sox have ever asked him about changing positions before...

[Elktonnick]

I know there are some posters who think very highly of Dalbec's defense, but I didn't watch enough minor league games last year to see for myself. I did see how shaky Devers was the first month, and the steady improvement he made at third throughout the summer. He became so comfortable and confident that his bat went off en route to leading the MLB with 90 extra-base hits.

 

Unless Dalbec is the next Arenado, I wouldn't consider moving Devers... except maybe to Cincy if the Reds called Chaim with an offer of Castillo and Aquino.

I am with you since I have not seen Dalbec play 3rd but Devers defense has improved immensely. His weakness has always been throwing not catching the ball. His improvement is such I think if he continues to work as hard as he has he could be a gold glove candidate in the very near future. It is also quite obvious that the Sox think highly of him. I just do not think they would risk endangering his progress by moving his position at this point in his career.

[notin]

I am with you since I have not seen Dalbec play 3rd but Devers defense has improved immensely. His weakness has always been throwing not catching the ball. His improvement is such I think if he continues to work as hard as he has he could be a gold glove candidate in the very near future. It is also quite obvious that the Sox think highly of him. I just do not think they would risk endangering his progress by moving his position at this point in his career.

 

I doubt Devers would struggle much with the change, just like Betts didn’t struggle much (or at all) when moved to the OF...

[moonslav59]

I doubt Devers would struggle much with the change, just like Betts didn’t struggle much (or at all) when moved to the OF...

 

Nothing seems to bother Devers.

[Elktonnick]

I doubt Devers would struggle much with the change, just like Betts didn’t struggle much (or at all) when moved to the OF...

 

Pedroia blocked Betts at 2nd so Betts was motivated to make the change as his ticket to the bigs. Devers has already won the 3rd base job. By moving him to 1st you are sending him the wrong msg and is a blow to his confidence. Since none of us knows him personally no one posting here has any idea how he would react including me. In any case, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[moonslav59]

Pedroia blocked Betts at 2nd so Betts was motivated to make the change as his ticket to the bigs. Devers has already won the 3rd base job. By moving him to 1st you are sending him the wrong msg and is a blow to his confidence. Since none of us knows him personally no one posting here has any idea how he would react including me. In any case, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

You could ask him.

[notin]

Pedroia blocked Betts at 2nd so Betts was motivated to make the change as his ticket to the bigs. Devers has already won the 3rd base job. By moving him to 1st you are sending him the wrong msg and is a blow to his confidence. Since none of us knows him personally no one posting here has any idea how he would react including me. In any case, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

I think the bigger factor in moving Betts to the outfield was the horrific start to his career at the plate by Jackie Bradley Jr. This also may have been a significant factor in signing Rusney Castillo.

 

I don’t think it’s fair to say moving his position is the wrong message or a blow to his confidence. That’s the kind of thing you’d have to know Devers to be sure of. He also might look at it like “Hey they think I can do anything.”...

Edited November 8, 2019 by notin

[Elktonnick]

You could ask him.

 

I won't ask him since I don't know him. I am sure this has come up. Nothing ever proposed on any of these forums is that original. There are smart people in front offices and I am sure someone in the red sox organization has a pretty good idea on how Devers would react or thinks about such a suggestion.

[Elktonnick]

I think the bigger factor in moving Betts to the outfield was the horrific start to his career at the plate by Jackie Bradley Jr. This also may have been a significant factor in signing Rusney Castillo.

 

I don’t think it’s fair to say moving his position is the wrong message or a blow to his confidence. That’s the kind of thing you’d have to know Devers to be sure of. He also might look at it like “Hey they think I can do anything.”...

 

I think it is perfectly fair to say but you are welcome to your opinion. And Betts was a 2nd baseman. There was no way he was going to make the club at that position so he he was going to have change to another one.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I just remember how the Sox screwed with young X's confidence and development in '14: first they gave him the shortstop job, then two months in changed their minds and re-signed Stephen Drew, moving Bogie to third... only to change their minds again two months later, and trading Drew to the Yankees.

 

Ya, that team finished last.

[notin]

I think it is perfectly fair to say but you are welcome to your opinion. And Betts was a 2nd baseman. There was no way he was going to make the club at that position so he he was going to have change to another one.

 

It’s not about opinions. It’s about other possibilities.

 

I know a lot of fans write off the stats guys as missing the “human element” of the game. But a really big part of the human element isn’t assuming all people react the same to the same situations. Humans are more than a collection of sweeping generalizations...

[Elktonnick]

It’s not about opinions. It’s about other possibilities.

 

I know a lot of fans write off the stats guys as missing the “human element” of the game. But a really big part of the human element isn’t assuming all people react the same to the same situations. Humans are more than a collection of sweeping generalizations...

 

And part of the human element is not to assume that everyone readily accepts change.

 

Industrial psychologists and change consultants make small fortunes trying to get recalcitrant employees adapt to change. I know because I spent a small fortune from my agency's budget hiring such consultants.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I think some semblance of stability is very important in this offseason. The bipolar Sox aspire to be a team in flux that stays competitive. At this juncture for 2020, there are only two positions on the field that Boston can point at and promote: the left side of the diamond, Bogaerts and Devers. You would think Vazquez and Benintendi would also be included because of their contracts, but some folks also think they make good trade bait because of their contracts.

 

Wait, what am I thinking? Awhile back, someone from a RI paper suggested a radical reboot via a Devers trade... and just this week a guy on MLB.com said the same thing, only with a Bogie trade.

 

Nobody's safe -- lock up your Dalbecs!

[moonslav59]

I won't ask him since I don't know him. I am sure this has come up. Nothing ever proposed on any of these forums is that original. There are smart people in front offices and I am sure someone in the red sox organization has a pretty good idea on how Devers would react or thinks about such a suggestion.

 

I agree, and I don't pretend to know more about players than the coaches and managers know. I'm just saying, from my distant point of view, Devers seems to not be bothered by much.

[notin]

And part of the human element is not to assume that everyone readily accepts change.

 

Industrial psychologists and change consultants make small fortunes trying to get recalcitrant employees adapt to change. I know because I spent a small fortune from my agency's budget hiring such consultants.

 

I assumed nothing and my original idea made no mention of Devers reaction. That was your input.

 

“Employees” plural might be resistant to change. But that doesn’t mean every individual is. And when it comes to MLB players, they change positions far more often than you realize. It’s a safe bet that the starting lineup of every MLB team has at least one player who has changed positions since AAA ball. Most probably have more....

[Swiharts Ghost]

White Sox are so desperate they are now trying to extend Abreu ? We need to pick up the phone Bloom !! Go get Kopech back .

[Elktonnick]

I assumed nothing and my original idea made no mention of Devers reaction. That was your input.

 

“Employees” plural might be resistant to change. But that doesn’t mean every individual is. And when it comes to MLB players, they change positions far more often than you realize. It’s a safe bet that the starting lineup of every MLB team has at least one player who has changed positions since AAA ball. Most probably have more....

We are talking about changing a young player who.is being successful in the majors at a.position. I think the example of what happened to the Xman when he made that move to third and what it did to his confidence is an excellent cautionary reminder. But hey this is only a sports forum where we can propose anything and suffer no consequences for any idea if it does not work.

[notin]

We are talking about changing a young player who.is being successful in the majors at a.position. I think the example of what happened to the Xman when he made that move to third and what it did to his confidence is an excellent cautionary reminder. But hey this is only a sports forum where we can propose anything and suffer no consequences for any idea if it does not work.

 

True. Our posts are inconsequential and meaningless.

 

The difference is, I can only make suggestions based on what I see as players and some stats, because taking the personalities of people I don’t know and have never met into account is tantamount to guesswork. I do realize many and probably nearly all players are insanely confident and have some sort of “nothing I can’t do” mentality, so typically the notion of change isn’t a big deal. In fact, my guess would be that players without that mentality struggle to ever make MLB regardless of talent.

 

After all, if no one ever changed positions, three quarters of the league would be shortstops...

[Elktonnick]

True. Our posts are inconsequential and meaningless.

 

The difference is, I can only make suggestions based on what I see as players and some stats, because taking the personalities of people I don’t know and have never met into account is tantamount to guesswork. I do realize many and probably nearly all players are insanely confident and have some sort of “nothing I can’t do” mentality, so typically the notion of change isn’t a big deal. In fact, my guess would be that players without that mentality struggle to ever make MLB regardless of talent.

 

After all, if no one ever changed positions, three quarters of the league would be shortstops...

Changing positions after a player reaches the major leagues is an entirely different animal which is why Brock Holt is such an exceptional player.

[S5Dewey]

It's a pretty safe bet that nearly all MLB players have changed positions at some time. As kids playing Little League the best player on each team is usually the shortstop. When they then progress up a league there is frequently more than one person on the 'new' team who sees himself as a SS but has to change positions because, well, you can't have more than one person at a time playing SS. That trend continues as players progress toward MLB. So it's a pretty safe bet to say that essentially all MLB players have been a shortstop at one time or another. Most of them have changed to a new position.

 

Being a "team" guy I have very little respect for a player who raises a ruckus because the folks running the team want that player to change positions for the good of the team. (See: Jeter, Derek)

 

Now, Re the current discussion about Devers vs. Dalbec @ 1st & 3rd, when I look at the progress Devers has made in 2019 I'd need some pretty compelling evidence before I'd move him to 1st base. I'm of the opinion that anyone who can play 3B can play 1B. The ball comes off the bat at the same angle albeit from the other side and both positions require a quick first step rather than speed.

 

Were it my decision I'd have Dalbec at 1B if only for one reason - he's 4" taller than Devers. Based on my personal experience/"anecdotal evidence" (which is essentially worthless here), I played in the infield with a first baseman who's 6'11". I knew that if I could get the ball anywhere near the base he'd make the play. That makes throws easier to make because I didn't have to think about the throw - and we all know what happens when start thinking too much when throwing. Just ask Chuck Knobloch or Justin Profar.

[Elktonnick]

It's a pretty safe bet that nearly all MLB players have changed positions at some time. As kids playing Little League the best player on each team is usually the shortstop. When they then progress up a league there is frequently more than one person on the 'new' team who sees himself as a SS but has to change positions because, well, you can't have more than one person at a time playing SS. That trend continues as players progress toward MLB. So it's a pretty safe bet to say that essentially all MLB players have been a shortstop at one time or another. Most of them have changed to a new position.

 

Being a "team" guy I have very little respect for a player who raises a ruckus because the folks running the team want that player to change positions for the good of the team. (See: Jeter, Derek)

 

Now, Re the current discussion about Devers vs. Dalbec @ 1st & 3rd, when I look at the progress Devers has made in 2019 I'd need some pretty compelling evidence before I'd move him to 1st base. I'm of the opinion that anyone who can play 3B can play 1B. The ball comes off the bat at the same angle albeit from the other side and both positions require a quick first step rather than speed.

 

Were it my decision I'd have Dalbec at 1B if only for one reason - he's 4" taller than Devers. Based on my personal experience/"anecdotal evidence" (which is essentially worthless here), I played in the infield with a first baseman who's 6'11". I knew that if I could get the ball anywhere near the base he'd make the play. That makes throws easier to make because I didn't have to think about the throw - and we all know what happens when start thinking too much when throwing. Just ask Chuck Knobloch or Justin Profar.

First of all my argument is over changing positions at the major League level which isn't the same as changing positions at lower levels. Secondly Devers has worked really hard to get his footwork right playing third. If one listens to Jerry Remy and others they point out that the vast majority of Devers errors are bad throws largely because of poor footwork. Now while at first this won't be a problem throwing that is the footwork playing 1st is different. So there would be adjustment issues. NAll that being said you raise an excellent point height. Those 4 inches are very significant. With instant replay I wonder what the analytics dept would say that translates into in terms of increased number of outs. I am sure the Red Sox have data on that.

[Bellhorn04]

Devers has worked his ass off to improve at third and it has paid off hugely. If he keeps working at it he might become one of the best defensive third baseman in baseball.

[Elktonnick]

Devers has worked his ass off to improve at third and it has paid off hugely. If he keeps working at it he might become one of the best defensive third baseman in baseball.

I agree totally. In fact I believe he has an excellent chance for the gold glove and silver slugger.