A Realistic View at 2020: Part I

[notin]

It is kind of amusing when there is a money dispute between the owners and the players , fans call the players greedy , and side with the owners . The next negotiations on an agreement should be interesting . The players are aware of how cheap some of the owners are , and how enormous their profits really are .

 

The players aren’t exactly struggling to put food on the table themselves...

[oldtimer]

I don't feel sorry for them either, but when people complain about how much they make, it's just a small fraction of all the money made.

 

You hardly ever hear people complain about owners making so much money, and they sometimes make billions.

 

Maybe they could lower the ticket prices, and concession costs. It's hard for a family to afford going to just one game these days. Maybe they will wind up killing the sport just as horse racing is struggling now.

[moonslav59]

Maybe they could lower the ticket prices, and concession costs. It's hard for a family to afford going to just one game these days. Maybe they will wind up killing the sport just as horse racing is struggling now.

 

Yeah, that's like asking the oil companies to stop making money and save the climate.

[oldtimer]

For those who bemoan the fact that the Sox won't spend still more money to make the playoffs, I looked at the Oakland Competitive Balance Tax Payroll. It comes to just over $85 mil. They seem to be getting more bang for the buck and I didn't bother to do the same for the Rays, but no doubt they are miles below our spending.

[jacksonianmarch]

Here’s where the players have a beef. Previously, the expectation from the players was that they’d be underpaid for six seasons (more like 4-5 now) when they break in then overpaid when they leave. Now, with owners being tighter with their cash, they’re being underpaid until they hit FA then they’re being dragged into what amounts to an almost lost season in their first taste of FA and then get a substandard contract. If owners are going to be tighter about FA, then the control needs to be shortened or the pay needs to rise. They’re right on this

[S5Dewey]

Here’s where the players have a beef. Previously, the expectation from the players was that they’d be underpaid for six seasons (more like 4-5 now) when they break in then overpaid when they leave. Now, with owners being tighter with their cash, they’re being underpaid until they hit FA then they’re being dragged into what amounts to an almost lost season in their first taste of FA and then get a substandard contract. If owners are going to be tighter about FA, then the control needs to be shortened or the pay needs to rise. They’re right on this

 

Here we go again with the overpaid/underpaid argument.

 

Let me first say that nobody making $550,000/year for playing baseball is "underpaid". Especially when they're being treated like kings to do it. They fly in chartered planes, they stay in the finest hotels, their meals are paid for, heck, they don't even carry their own bags.

 

However, underpaid/overpaid is a matter of comparison and when compared to what the owners make the players ARE underpaid. But that's just my opinion because since the teams are privately owned we don't know what the owners are making. Convenient, huh?

 

It appears that the ones who are overpaid are the owners and it's their unwillingness to pay the players a larger piece of the pie is the culprit here. The owners just have a better PR bureau then do the players so the owners have managed transfer the blame for high ticket, ticket, beer, souviner, etc. prices to the players.

 

At the core of the problem is us the fans. We continue to pay inflated prices for anything to do with MLB in the need to quench our insatiable appetite for entertainment. And I'm not excusing S5Dewey either. I'm as guilty as anyone, but it's a fact. We - the players and the fans - are willingly being taken for a ride by the millionaire owners who continue to pad their own pockets at our expense.

 

I'm aware that I've railed on ad nausem about the high players salaries in relation to their contribution to society but that doesn't mean that I don't support the players. I do and I'll continue to until I see some credible evidence that the ownership is paying the players a piece of the pie that's commensurate with what the owners are making.

 

Still, the bottom line is the fans. We have met the enemy and he is us.

[notin]

Here’s where the players have a beef. Previously, the expectation from the players was that they’d be underpaid for six seasons (more like 4-5 now) when they break in then overpaid when they leave. Now, with owners being tighter with their cash, they’re being underpaid until they hit FA then they’re being dragged into what amounts to an almost lost season in their first taste of FA and then get a substandard contract. If owners are going to be tighter about FA, then the control needs to be shortened or the pay needs to rise. They’re right on this

 

"Overpaid" when they retire is one thing. $35mill per year is another. Do multiple players really each need to make more than the Gross Domestic Product of Tuvalu ?

[Bellhorn04]

"Overpaid" when they retire is one thing. $35mill per year is another. Do multiple players really each need to make more than the Gross Domestic Product of Tuvalu ?

 

The very best players, like the most popular movie stars, get paid crazy amounts.

 

It's just the American way, really.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Yeah, that's like asking the oil companies to stop making money and save the climate.

 

Things go better without Koch.

[moonslav59]

For those who bemoan the fact that the Sox won't spend still more money to make the playoffs, I looked at the Oakland Competitive Balance Tax Payroll. It comes to just over $85 mil. They seem to be getting more bang for the buck and I didn't bother to do the same for the Rays, but no doubt they are miles below our spending.

 

Not only that, they still have very good farms despite winning.

[moonslav59]

Here’s where the players have a beef. Previously, the expectation from the players was that they’d be underpaid for six seasons (more like 4-5 now) when they break in then overpaid when they leave. Now, with owners being tighter with their cash, they’re being underpaid until they hit FA then they’re being dragged into what amounts to an almost lost season in their first taste of FA and then get a substandard contract. If owners are going to be tighter about FA, then the control needs to be shortened or the pay needs to rise. They’re right on this

 

The owners would be smart to vastly raise the pay of players before they become free agents. That alone would get a lot of vote for a contract by many players. Even raising minor league min salaries would go over well.

[Bellhorn04]

Some of this is being addressed by higher arb salaries. I mean, we're already beetching about how much JBJ is sure to get in his third arb year...

[moonslav59]

Some of this is being addressed by higher arb salaries. I mean, we're already beetching about how much JBJ is sure to get in his third arb year...

 

Think of how many pre-arb players there are. If you doubled their salaries, it would be a drop in the bucket for owners but would probably get a big chunk of the players to vote yes on any contract. Shorten the arb year by one, and they'd probably have a deal, even if they screwed the players everywhere else.

 

Management did this at a company I worked for. The lower tiered workers outnumbered the higher tier, so the contract offered dramatically shortened the time it took to get to top tier, thereby giving massive raises to the lower paid workers, while they added nothing to the top tier and did away with the company retirement plan. It barely passed because all the lower guys voted for the big one time raise that screwed their longterm future.

 

 

[Slasher9]

All of them should be paying more tax.

[a700hitter]

All of them should be paying more tax.

That too would be a drop in the bucket.

[Bellhorn04]

Think of how many pre-arb players there are. If you doubled their salaries, it would be a drop in the bucket for owners but would probably get a big chunk of the players to vote yes on any contract. Shorten the arb year by one, and they'd probably have a deal, even if they screwed the players everywhere else.

 

Management did this at a company I worked for. The lower tiered workers outnumbered the higher tier, so the contract offered dramatically shortened the time it took to get to top tier, thereby giving massive raises to the lower paid workers, while they added nothing to the top tier and did away with the company retirement plan. It barely passed because all the lower guys voted for the big one time raise that screwed their longterm future.

 

 

One thing for sure is that there will never be a deal that everyone's happy with.

[notin]

Some of this is being addressed by higher arb salaries. I mean, we're already beetching about how much JBJ is sure to get in his third arb year

 

Is there someone out there in denial and arguing that Bradley didn’t get $8.5mill in his third arb year? I thought that was settled.

 

Now his fourth arb year is another matter. You know, since you go out of your way to fix all my mistakes

[Bellhorn04]

Is there someone out there in denial and arguing that Bradley didn’t get $8.5mill in his third arb year? I thought that was settled.

 

Now his fourth arb year is another matter. You know, since you go out of your way to fix all my mistakes

 

Damn, I should've just said LAST arb year.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't want to quibble but since the advent of the Patriots and Tom Brady it has been noted that pro football especially the Patriots has eclipsed the number one status of the Red Sox in the hearts of New Englanders as much as we may wish to deny it. Admittedly this is especially hard for me because I am not a big football fan nor do I watch the NHL or the NBA. The sad fact is baseball is losing its fanatics to other sports. I see this in my 11 grandsons of whom only two play or follow baseball to any degree.

 

A couple of things I wonder about this:

 

1) Will the immense popularity of the Pats continue when the Brady/Belichick era of dominance inevitably ends?

 

2) Will kids ever fully realize that football is a sport that wreaks havoc on the body, that forces a star quarterback like Andrew Luck to retire at 29 because of the relentless injuries and fear of living the rest of his life in chronic, debilitating pain?

[S5Dewey]

A couple of things I wonder about this:

 

1) Will the immense popularity of the Pats continue when the Brady/Belichick era of dominance inevitably ends?

 

2) Will kids ever fully realize that football is a sport that wreaks havoc on the body, that forces a star quarterback like Andrew Luck to retire at 29 because of the relentless injuries and fear of living the rest of his life in chronic, debilitating pain?

 

To answer your questions...

 

1) Absolutely not. Football fans are mostly regional (and fickle). Remember when the Cowboys were "America's Team"? Now the Pats riding the crest of that same wave. Once B & B are gone most of these"fans" (a/k/a 'front runners') will revert to rooting for their more local teams. There'll be a few who cling to the past just as there are still some who cling to the days of the Cowboys, Yankees, and the Oakland Athletics of old but for the most part they'll go to whatever team gets the most media exposure in their part of the country.

 

2) I heard Bob Costas say in an interview some years ago that, "Unless football does things to mitigate these concussions and injuries I can see a point where football becomes as marginalized sport as boxing". (loosely quoted).

The NFL is trying to make an impact (ok, poor choice of words. ) on the health of its players but they can't undo the fact that fewer and fewer parents are allowing their children to play football at a younger age. This is going to have an effect on the popularity of the sport in a few years when these children have to choose between watching a sport they played and can relate to (soccer) and football.

 

IMHO many football players are now knowingly putting their health and future at risk because it's their way out of poverty but as more and more research is done many of them will see that the risk isn't worth the short time reward.

[Bellhorn04]

Also, I should have mentioned, Rob Gronkowski retired at about the same age and for the same reasons as Luck, but his retirement seems to have met with a much better response, presumably because he did it early and because, well, because he's Gronk.

[notin]

Also, I should have mentioned, Rob Gronkowski retired at about the same age and for the same reasons as Luck, but his retirement seems to have met with a much better response, presumably because he did it early and because, well, because he's Gronk.

 

And he discussed it a couple years prior and it didn’t happen out of the blue during his team’s third preseason game...

[Bellhorn04]

And he discussed it a couple years prior and it didn’t happen out of the blue during his team’s third preseason game...

 

Agreed. But it's not exactly fair, is it?

[notin]

Agreed. But it's not exactly fair, is it?

 

I’m not sure what you mean. Life was more than fair to Rob Gronkowski...

[Elktonnick]

A couple of things I wonder about this:

 

1) Will the immense popularity of the Pats continue when the Brady/Belichick era of dominance inevitably ends?

 

2) Will kids ever fully realize that football is a sport that wreaks havoc on the body, that forces a star quarterback like Andrew Luck to retire at 29 because of the relentless injuries and fear of living the rest of his life in chronic, debilitating pain?

 

I hope that pro football eventually becomes much less popular. Without becoming too philosophical, two of the reasons, but not the only ones certainly, football became more popular was that it was more conducive to television and easier to bet on.

 

Right now in this area at least the sport that is having the most growth and is attracting more enthusiasm among the younger set isn't American football nor soccer but lacrosse.

[Bellhorn04]

I’m not sure what you mean. Life was more than fair to Rob Gronkowski...

 

I mean the treatment of Luck by a lot of people was unfair, regardless of his timing.

[notin]

I hope that pro football eventually becomes much less popular. Without becoming too philosophical, two of the reasons, but not the only ones certainly, football became more popular was that it was more conducive to television and easier to bet on.

 

Right now in this area at least the sport that is having the most growth and is attracting more enthusiasm among the younger set isn't American football nor soccer but lacrosse.

 

Actually, especially in Europe, the growth of e-sports appears to be trouncing all real sports...

[jung]

Actually, especially in Europe, the growth of e-sports appears to be trouncing all real sports...

 

e-sports....what is that, a catching marketing term used to convince people they are actually engaging in a sport?

[S5Dewey]

Actually, especially in Europe, the growth of e-sports appears to be trouncing all real sports...

 

I have a friend who does PA for UMaine & larger venue high school games and he's currently getting away from those to do PA for something called Rocket League. Apparently it's an online game mimicking soccer but using cars with rockets as the playable characters.

 

Say what you want to about it but he's making money doing it so there must be some following someplace.

[Slasher9]

Philly is building a 10,000 seat arena for e-league right next to their football, baseball, basketball/hockey stadiums....