Chris Owings >13th pitcher?

[Maxbialystock]

All season long Cora and DD stuck with 13 pitchers on the roster, but now there are 12, apparently because of a compelling need for Owings, the same guy who pretty much ensured the Sox lost the one game he started at 2b.

 

Can anyone explain this?

[Slasher9]

 

Can anyone explain this?

this one is easy: WTF

[notin]

All season long Cora and DD stuck with 13 pitchers on the roster, but now there are 12, apparently because of a compelling need for Owings, the same guy who pretty much ensured the Sox lost the one game he started at 2b.

 

Can anyone explain this?

 

Are you sure Owings isn’t a pitcher? He certainly hits like one...

[Bellhorn04]

this one is easy: WTF

 

In this case I think DD gets the WTF.

[Bellhorn04]

I think the actual answer is that we now have a lot more off days on the schedule, so there isn't as much need for the 8th reliever. Plus September callups will be here soon.

[bkzwhitestrican]

Cora obviously lost some kind of bet with Owings' dad

[moonslav59]

All season long Cora and DD stuck with 13 pitchers on the roster, but now there are 12, apparently because of a compelling need for Owings, the same guy who pretty much ensured the Sox lost the one game he started at 2b.

 

Can anyone explain this?

 

The season is over, so it doesn't matter.

[mvp 78]

The season is over, so it doesn't matter.

 

This

[moonslav59]

This

 

We could cut Porcello, Moreland & Cashner and call up 3 Owings, and I could care less.

[Bellhorn04]

We could cut Porcello, Moreland & Cashner and call up 3 Owings, and I could care less.

 

Man, when you pack it in, you don't fool around.

[moonslav59]

Man, when you pack it in, you don't fool around.

 

Is there a reason to keep a young kid down for those 3?

[OH FOY]

The day your eliminated is the day you give up hope. Just hope Cora sees this and screw resting players.

I'm with Slasher now 20 in a row baby.

Resting a player because of bad Pitching match-up, or injury, illness, or even a little slump one thing. Resting players when you have a chance even a little one because I want to give him day off at this time for a rest, sends me as a Fan a message.

Screw that. At least go down, with a good feeling for next year.

Edited August 17, 2019 by OH FOY!

[Bellhorn04]

Is there a reason to keep a young kid down for those 3?

 

Yes, there are two big reasons, actually.

 

One is that the Sox still have a chance.

 

The other is that at this point in the season teams should still be trying to win games, for the sake of the fans and the other teams who are playoff contenders.

[Kimmi]

All season long Cora and DD stuck with 13 pitchers on the roster, but now there are 12, apparently because of a compelling need for Owings, the same guy who pretty much ensured the Sox lost the one game he started at 2b.

 

Can anyone explain this?

 

Cora is supposedly going into sprint mode. He is considering using his starters in relief roles on their non-starting days, thereby lessening the need for that 13th pitcher. He has not given up on the season.

[Kimmi]

The day your eliminated is the day you give up hope. Just hope Cora sees this and screw resting players.

I'm with Slasher now 20 in a row baby.

Resting a player because of bad Pitching match-up, or injury, illness, or even a little slump one thing. Resting players when you have a chance even a little one because I want to give him day off at this time for a rest, sends me as a Fan a message.

Screw that. At least go down, with a good feeling for next year.

 

Amen.

[moonslav59]

Yes, there are two big reasons, actually.

 

One is that the Sox still have a chance.

 

The other is that at this point in the season teams should still be trying to win games, for the sake of the fans and the other teams who are playoff contenders.

 

1) We have zero chance. Zilch. Nada.

 

2) I'm not advocating trying to lose. We have the same chance of winning with Johnson, Velazquez, Shawaryn or even Houck as we do with Porcello or Cashner, but we can gain important knowledge by playing the non free agents to be.

[moonslav59]

Cora is supposedly going into sprint mode. He is considering using his starters in relief roles on their non-starting days, thereby lessening the need for that 13th pitcher. He has not given up on the season.

 

He must be the only one on the team, then.

[Bellhorn04]

He must be the only one on the team, then.

 

What are you talking about? To use the two most obvious examples, does it really look to you like Devers and Bogaerts are just going through the motions out there?

[Bellhorn04]

1) We have zero chance. Zilch. Nada.

 

2) I'm not advocating trying to lose. We have the same chance of winning with Johnson, Velazquez, Shawaryn or even Houck as we do with Porcello or Cashner, but we can gain important knowledge by playing the non free agents to be.

 

You're blowing me away, in a bad way, with some of these statements.

 

You also advocated dumping Moreland, who has an .835 OPS.

 

No, I really don't think we have just as good a chance with guys like Shawaryn and Houck. Shawaryn has horrible numbers this year. Houck has pitched 14.1 innings above AA level.

Dumping Porcello in favor of one of these guys would be beyond absurd. Porcello is having a horrible season, but he's a highly credentialed pitcher who is probably, much like Chris Sale, trying to reinvent himself on the fly. I would not write him off as incapable of pitching well the rest of the way.

[dgalehouse]

Yes, there are two big reasons, actually.

 

One is that the Sox still have a chance.

 

The other is that at this point in the season teams should still be trying to win games, for the sake of the fans and the other teams who are playoff contenders.

 

You're damn right the Sox still have a chance . They have the talent and experience to play well down the stretch . And the Rays and A's are flawed teams that will stumble a bit . I'm not a fool . I know the division is lost . But a wild card is still very possible. It is ironic how some of the same people who were so cocky and overconfident on opening day ( greatest team ever assembled , best manager in history, D.D. did everything right , the bullpen will be fine , we may be even better than last year , etc .) are now the first ones to jump ship when the going gets a little rough . ( Cursing the players , this guy sucks , that guy sucks , Cora sucks , D.D. must go , trade this guy , dump this guy , break up this team , etc. ) This whole site is starting to resemble the game thread , with all the negativity, hating , vitriol , doom and despair . I will not be posting here as often because it has become a major turnoff and gets in the way of enjoying the games and the season . Of course the Sox still have a chance . Just do it .

[moonslav59]

You're blowing me away, in a bad way, with some of these statements.

 

You also advocated dumping Moreland, who has an .835 OPS.

 

No, I really don't think we have just as good a chance with guys like Shawaryn and Houck. Shawaryn has horrible numbers this year. Houck has pitched 14.1 innings above AA level.

Dumping Porcello in favor of one of these guys would be beyond absurd. Porcello is having a horrible season, but he's a highly credentialed pitcher who is probably, much like Chris Sale, trying to reinvent himself on the fly. I would not write him off as incapable of pitching well the rest of the way.

 

Okay- maybe not Shawaryn, although using this year's numbers to bash him when Porcello & Cashner's are equally horrific is not a winning point.

 

On Moreland, once you believe the season is over, as I believe you should, then you might (you don't have to) think giving Chavis, Marco, Travis and maybe even Dalbec and Ockimey more chances to evaluate their value makes good sense.

[moonslav59]

You're damn right the Sox still have a chance . They have the talent and experience to play well down the stretch . And the Rays and A's are flawed teams that will stumble a bit . I'm not a fool . I know the division is lost . But a wild card is still very possible. It is ironic how some of the same people who were so cocky and overconfident on opening day ( greatest team ever assembled , best manager in history, D.D. did everything right , the bullpen will be fine , we may be even better than last year , etc .) are now the first ones to jump ship when the going gets a little rough . ( Cursing the players , this guy sucks , that guy sucks , Cora sucks , D.D. must go , trade this guy , dump this guy , break up this team , etc. ) This whole site is starting to resemble the game thread , with all the negativity, hating , vitriol , doom and despair . I will not be posting here as often because it has become a major turnoff and gets in the way of enjoying the games and the season . Of course the Sox still have a chance . Just do it .

 

If you think Porcello, Cashner and Moreland will be back next year, I don't know what more to say.

That "break up" is happening- like it or not. My position is to hasten the inevitable and improving our outlook next year by improving our knowledge of what we have in our system that may be useful going forward.

[Bellhorn04]

Okay- maybe not Shawaryn, although using this year's numbers to bash him when Porcello & Cashner's are equally horrific is not a winning point.

 

No, Porcello's numbers are not equally horrific.

 

Porcello has a 1.3 fWAR and a 0.7 bWAR.

 

Shawaryn has negatives in both despite only pitching 12.2 innings.

 

It's ridiculous to even compare the two.

 

Not to mention, Shawaryn and Houck are relievers. If we cut Porcello, are we going to have bullpen games in his place? We'd be down to Sale and E-Rod as healthy true starters until Price gets back. It would be a joke.

[dgalehouse]

If you think Porcello, Cashner and Moreland will be back next year, I don't know what more to say.

That "break up" is happening- like it or not. My position is to hasten the inevitable and improving our outlook next year by improving our knowledge of what we have in our system that may be useful going forward.

 

What needs to be done this off season is just what should have been done , but wasn't, last off season . Free up enough bucks to spend fixing the bullpen. We are 17 games behind the Yankees . Their owner is no better than ours . Their G.M. is no better than ours . Their manager is no better than ours . Their offense is no better than ours . Their rotation is no better than ours . The one , glaring difference is the bullpen. The way the game is played today , that is vital .Certainly, losing guys like Porcello, Moreland and Cashner can help free up money in that regard . But a major overhaul is not needed. And giving up is definitely not needed.

[moonslav59]

No, Porcello's numbers are not equally horrific.

 

Porcello has a 1.3 fWAR and a 0.7 bWAR.

 

Shawaryn has negatives in both despite only pitching 12.2 innings.

 

It's ridiculous to even compare the two.

 

Not to mention, Shawaryn and Houck are relievers. If we cut Porcello, are we going to have bullpen games in his place? We'd be down to Sale and E-Rod as healthy true starters until Price gets back. It would be a joke.

 

I answered this by mentioning more names than just those 2.

[Bellhorn04]

That "break up" is happening- like it or not. My position is to hasten the inevitable and improving our outlook next year by improving our knowledge of what we have in our system that may be useful going forward.

 

If all teams had this type of philosophy, it would mean every team who was either clearly out of it or whose chances were slim would treat the last 6 weeks of the season or so as garbage time-forget about trying to win games, just use the games as a way to evaluate future talent.

 

Yeah, that'd really be fair to the fans paying big money and the teams whose playoff possibilities depend on the outcomes of other games.

 

As if the sport isn't already in enough trouble.

[Bellhorn04]

I answered this by mentioning more names than just those 2.

 

You mean Johnson and Velazquez?

 

Johnson is already on the team. Velazquez is a career scrub type. These guys do not need a whole lot of further evaluation, do they?

[moonslav59]

What needs to be done this off season is just what should have been done , but wasn't, last off season . Free up enough bucks to spend fixing the bullpen. We are 17 games behind the Yankees . Their owner is no better than ours . Their G.M. is no better than ours . Their manager is no better than ours . Their offense is no better than ours . Their rotation is no better than ours . The one , glaring difference is the bullpen. The way the game is played today , that is vital .Certainly, losing guys like Porcello, Moreland and Cashner can help free up money in that regard . But a major overhaul is not needed. And giving up is definitely not needed.

 

We should begin looking to next year by getting rid of anyone not in next year's plan. It's not a major overhaul by itself.

 

While I am advocating for a reset, this part of my plan is something we should do even if we will not reset next year.

[moonslav59]

You mean Johnson and Velazquez?

 

Johnson is already on the team. Velazquez is a career scrub type. These guys do not need a whole lot of further evaluation, do they?

 

Johnson can start over Porcello or Casner not Shawaryn and Houck. I mentioned those two as roster replacements not rotation replacements.

 

Velazquez looked good last year and has a better chance at being on the roster next year than RP and A C.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I guess we could use the 2007 Rockies as inspiration. Edited August 17, 2019 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER