A Realistic View at 2019: Part II

[a700hitter]

Anybody watching this HR derby?

Every game is a HR.

[Slasher9]

so do we see some HR Derby records obliterated tonight???

 

Yup.

[jung]

so do we see some HR Derby records obliterated tonight???

 

They actually keep records of THIS crap. What a farce.

[Slasher9]

It's a f---ing joke," said Verlander, an eight-time All-Star who is starting his second All-Star Game on Tuesday. "Major League Baseball's turning this game into a joke. They own Rawlings, and you've got Manfred up here saying it might be the way they center the pill. They own the f---ing company. If any other $40 billion company bought out a $400 million company and the product changed dramatically, it's not a guess as to what happened. We all know what happened. Manfred the first time he came in, what'd he say? He said we want more offense. All of a sudden he comes in, the balls are juiced? It's not coincidence. We're not idiots."

[moonslav59]

I hate the AS break. Too many days off without a real game.

[a700hitter]

It's a bore. Now, after so many years of inter-league play, I don't even care about the game.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yeah, I’m not a fan of the ASG. Don’t want anyone hurt. Get through and get to the stretch run

[moonslav59]

It's a bore. Now, after so many years of inter-league play, I don't even care about the game.

 

I never watch it.

 

Sometimes I don't even look at the box score.

 

The game sucks, the break sucks, and extending the break to more than 3 days really sucks.

[jung]

It's a bore. Now, after so many years of inter-league play, I don't even care about the game.

 

I can't stand the thing. It might be tolerable if I did not have to listen to the MLB shills (broadcast crew) telling me how excited I should be and how wonderful the game is that I am watching. Weighted against the time it takes out of the regular season for what is an unofficial "show" game smack dab in the middle of the actual regular season and I simply refuse to give them the benefit of my viewership. f*** em'. Its as ridiculous as.....as ridiculous as....squeezing three days off out of five from the end June schedule so that you can cart two of your premier teams across the Atlantic Ocean to play two frigging games in London!

[Hitch]

It's a f---ing joke," said Verlander, an eight-time All-Star who is starting his second All-Star Game on Tuesday. "Major League Baseball's turning this game into a joke. They own Rawlings, and you've got Manfred up here saying it might be the way they center the pill. They own the f---ing company. If any other $40 billion company bought out a $400 million company and the product changed dramatically, it's not a guess as to what happened. We all know what happened. Manfred the first time he came in, what'd he say? He said we want more offense. All of a sudden he comes in, the balls are juiced? It's not coincidence. We're not idiots."

 

I agree with him, but it's a tricky one. MLB needs new fans and the younger generations want excitement now. Instant gratification. Whereas most of would maybe prefer a really well pitched, tactically close game, I'd bet all the money I have that the vast majority of new/young fans would prefer games like we saw in London, recently.

 

If you love the sport already, I think you appreciate vastly different things to the people who are just starting to like the sport now.

[jung]

I agree with him, but it's a tricky one. MLB needs new fans and the younger generations want excitement now. Instant gratification. Whereas most of would maybe prefer a really well pitched, tactically close game, I'd bet all the money I have that the vast majority of new/young fans would prefer games like we saw in London, recently.

 

If you love the sport already, I think you appreciate vastly different things to the people who are just starting to like the sport now.

 

The problem is that a vast majority of a drop in the bucket does not get it done. The 65+ year old geographic is 5x the 18-49 year old viewership and my group (the 65+ group) is not exactly growing in size. So unless they actually teach these kids the intricacies that make baseball a great game all MLB is doing is slitting its own throat.

 

Watching uncompetitively pitched Superballs get hit over a fence one after the other and calling it MLB baseball ain't gonna' get it done. Frankly the ASG "Home Run Derby" is hardly different than what MLB says passes for an official regular season game now. These kids might be ignorant to the intricacies of baseball and that is on us and on baseball. But they are not stupid. Where MLB appears to be heading will ultimately prove to be not worth the young fan's time nor the young fan's money BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT STUPID. You could more readily make the case that MLB is stupid for thinking they will get away with this. Who for example will really be interested in the career records of baseball players when one can no longer rely upon the baseball one season to the next. Making a change to correct an imbalance is one thing. Instituting change that CREATES absurd imbalances is quite another.

 

The entire business dynamic of regular season baseball games is built around a cost and ticket price structure that is unsustainable for what is basically turning into a farce, a charade. MLB is becoming general entertainment as opposed to sports entertainment and at $50-$100 a pop for tickets that is just going to come crashing down around their ears at some point and likely all at once too. Probably will happen right about the time my generation (65+ of age) starts really pushing up daisies on a regular basis.

Edited July 9, 2019 by jung

[OH FOY]

Growing up, the All-Star Game was a great game to watch. It was a hard fought game, that each League wanted to show which League was better. Some real intense All-Star Games were played. They didn't care about injuries either. They played hard, and extra inning games were unreal.

It was game that you could not wait to watch.

Players and Fans have changed.

Here's an old box score from 1967 All-Star game. Never see this again with these players.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/allstar/1967-allstar-game.shtml

Edited July 9, 2019 by OH FOY!

[jung]

Growing up, the All-Star Game was a great game to watch. It was a hard fought game, that each League wanted to show which League was better. Some real intense All-Star Games were played. They didn't care about injuries either. They played hard, and extra inning games were unreal.

It was game that you could not wait to watch.

Players and Fans have changed.

 

Well MLB has changed. When the ASG was a great game to watch and a hard fought game, away games were effectively a train ride or a short flight away from home games. Travel was far less tedious than it is now. Take it from somebody that had to fly major miles for a career, a day in the air is NOT a day of rest and I don't care what you pay for the seat on the plane. Now, taking 3-4 days that could be spread throughout the season for rest purposes and then not even resting your best players right in the middle of a championship season for an "exhibition" is just harebrained, scatterbrained MLB nonsense just as most of their recent crap is nonsense.

 

In 1970 for example the AL east had 5 ET zone teams and one Central time zone team. The AL West had 4 CT zone teams and 2 WT zone teams. The NL East had 4 ET zone teams and two CT zone teams. The NL West had 3 CT zone teams and 3 WT zone teams and nobody had to fly to ridiculous to get to Seattle to play baseball games. For all intents the worst thing an ET zone AL East team had to do was get its asses to Arlington TX. The worst thing the AL and NL West had to do was jump over a time zone to play their CT zone rivals all clustered in the CT zone and back again. Teams stayed in the main within their divisional play as well. Compare that to the laughable insanity we inflict on ballplayers today. Steroids, PED's?... They would be justified carrying Comfort pets, hypnotists and mystics as far as I am concerned, never mind Steroids and PED's.

 

In addition there was real rivalry between the NL and the AL owners that sifted down to the players. It was so competitive between the two ownership groups that it bordered on hate. The NL was the league of speed and agility having accepted integration at a far quicker pace than the AL and the AL had become the "retirees" league and was known as such. Why the heck do you think it was the AL that adopted the DH?

 

Now while there is still a DH league and a non-DH league, the players are basically playing for the MLBPA. That is their "team". Everything else is just laundry for them. Can you blame them?

[Bellhorn04]

It's a f---ing joke," said Verlander, an eight-time All-Star who is starting his second All-Star Game on Tuesday. "Major League Baseball's turning this game into a joke. They own Rawlings, and you've got Manfred up here saying it might be the way they center the pill. They own the f---ing company. If any other $40 billion company bought out a $400 million company and the product changed dramatically, it's not a guess as to what happened. We all know what happened. Manfred the first time he came in, what'd he say? He said we want more offense. All of a sudden he comes in, the balls are juiced? It's not coincidence. We're not idiots."

 

Good for Verlander. Let's see if some other players speak out on this.

[Hitch]

The problem is that a vast majority of a drop in the bucket does not get it done. The 65+ year old geographic is 5x the 18-49 year old viewership and my group (the 65+ group) is not exactly growing in size. So unless they actually teach these kids the intricacies that make baseball a great game all MLB is doing is slitting its own throat.

 

Watching uncompetitively pitched Superballs get hit over a fence one after the other and calling it MLB baseball ain't gonna' get it done. Frankly the ASG "Home Run Derby" is hardly different than what MLB says passes for an official regular season game now. These kids might be ignorant to the intricacies of baseball and that is on us and on baseball. But they are not stupid. Where MLB appears to be heading will ultimately prove to be not worth the young fan's time nor the young fan's money BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT STUPID. You could more readily make the case that MLB is stupid for thinking they will get away with this. Who for example will really be interested in the career records of baseball players when one can no longer rely upon the baseball one season to the next. Making a change to correct an imbalance is one thing. Instituting change that CREATES absurd imbalances is quite another.

 

Again, I don't disagree, but the 65+ geographic will die off soon enough and they're unlikely to leave the game they love before they do, no matter what. The older generation is the most committed. They'll continue to watch every game and they'll complain through it and talk about how this isn't the way it should be, but they'll still be there. Because they love it.

 

And when they die off, if MLB doesn't attract new fans and at a good rate the sport will begin to flounder. And you can talk about how stupid/or not stupid young people are (this isn't the point of my post, not by a long shot), but the point is that we are as a society moving towards more instant gratification. It's a serious psychological problem. There are numerous studies available that show that younger people are having diminished concentration levels. Many won't sit and watch clips over 30/40 seconds because it takes too much time. Anything above 280 character is deemed too much to read. That's where we're at.

 

In the UK, cricket at its peak was played over five days. It was considered the highest form of the game where only the most skilled could live. Now the highest and most paid form by a massive amount is 20/20 where a team comes in and thrashes the ball around for as many runs as quickly as possible before the other team comes in and tries to hit more. It has completely changed the face of the game. Whereas the old style of the game used to have grounds mostly half-full with older people (mostly men) the new form of the game has stadiums filled with kids and families and the money being generated is incomparable.

 

MLB is fighting for it's new generation of fans. I'm not saying what they are doing is right, but I certainly understand why they're doing it. Although, they should have been honest about it up front.

[S5Dewey]

MLB started chasing the immediate dollar without consideration of the future of the game when they went to having teams play 80% of their games at night. By playing games that end at after 10:00 pm local time they made sure that no kid sees the end of the game. Do you wonder why the kids don't watch? Who among us wants to watch the first four innings and then be put to bed? Now they're trying to reverse the impact of what they've done by making the game "more exciting" by adding more offense.

 

MLB just doesn't 'get it'. Juicing up the ball isn't going to work because the kids still won't be able to see the end of the games! All they're doing is bastardizing what used to be - and still is to some degree - a great game, and in the process killing off future fans.

[OH FOY]

Baseball was the last sport where the All-Star game meant something. Even if it was between players, it pussed out too, just like every All-Star, or All-Pro Game in sports. Everybody does not want to get hurt. Pride in all these athletes are gone.

Never in my 67 years of life that Owners was the difference, in a Baseball All-Star game. Back in 67 there was thing called Jets, I know I was in another country 2 years later.

Age should never make a difference if you love the sport. Still excited about the All-Star game, always was.

Edited July 9, 2019 by OH FOY!

[d-money]

I hate the AS break. Too many days off without a real game.

 

Have to wait till Friday.

[OH FOY]

Here's something to think about, and it has been in my mind lately.

https://www.thespec.com/sports-story/9493429-as-home-runs-fly-major-league-baseball-s-doping-question-is-back/

[OH FOY]

Have to wait till Friday.

 

Many games played on Regular schedule aren't real games. KC vs. Detroit should be televised nationally on a Sunday night. People will get some sleep for Monday morning work.

[jacksonianmarch]

I didn’t like the ASG being the sole determinant of WS home field. I also don’t like record being the sole determinant. I’d have made it 3 categories, best two of three determines the home field. Record, AS game, Interleague record of League. The third is basically the team from the League (AL vs NL) that won the most games in inter league play, is the better league.

[jung]

Again, I don't disagree, but the 65+ geographic will die off soon enough and they're unlikely to leave the game they love before they do, no matter what. The older generation is the most committed. They'll continue to watch every game and they'll complain through it and talk about how this isn't the way it should be, but they'll still be there. Because they love it.

 

And when they die off, if MLB doesn't attract new fans and at a good rate the sport will begin to flounder. And you can talk about how stupid/or not stupid young people are (this isn't the point of my post, not by a long shot), but the point is that we are as a society moving towards more instant gratification. It's a serious psychological problem. There are numerous studies available that show that younger people are having diminished concentration levels. Many won't sit and watch clips over 30/40 seconds because it takes too much time. Anything above 280 character is deemed too much to read. That's where we're at.

 

In the UK, cricket at its peak was played over five days. It was considered the highest form of the game where only the most skilled could live. Now the highest and most paid form by a massive amount is 20/20 where a team comes in and thrashes the ball around for as many runs as quickly as possible before the other team comes in and tries to hit more. It has completely changed the face of the game. Whereas the old style of the game used to have grounds mostly half-full with older people (mostly men) the new form of the game has stadiums filled with kids and families and the money being generated is incomparable.

 

MLB is fighting for it's new generation of fans. I'm not saying what they are doing is right, but I certainly understand why they're doing it. Although, they should have been honest about it up front.

 

And there ya' go. The "younger generation" will figure out that they are being sold a bill of goods and honestly they have very little tolerance for that now. We have sold them down the primrose path over too many "so called" dyed in the wool, take it to the bank American standards and they are not real interested in supporting you once you have your pants down around your ankles. Too many charlatans have worn out that path for them.

 

If I were MLB I would NOT have tried to cloak efforts to create an environment biased toward larger, less agile players in some half baked, "we are trying to protect the players" nonsense. They don't care if a player keels over on the field as long as MLB can't be blamed for it. They simply don't care about the players.They should not have promoted power pitching as they are running through pitchers faster than crap through a goose and as I have posted earlier, there is simply no getting around the fact that everything that happens on the diamond starts with THE BALL (now f***ed up beyond imagination) in the hand of a pitcher (now f***ed up beyond imagination as to their nominal performance across the league).

 

IMO"

- they never should have focused on so much replay. It just sucks up too much time the way its used. They should have restricted it to HR calls and foul balls....PERIOD. Plus you what to tell me, younger fans would not LOVE to see Billy Martin kicking dirt on the umps shoes?

- they should have NEVER changed the rules around the bases and I would even question whether they should have done it around home plate. Around the bases it has simply provided a false sense of security to the infielders and has biased away from agility and footwork. It has robbed away one of the most beautiful plays in all baseball, turning the DP in the face of the oncoming runner and has done NOTHING to actually protect players. As for home plate, Astros Jake Marisnick just crushed the Angel's catcher Lucroy at Home Plate just days ago in a completely legal play. So those rules changes are just more MLB nonsense.

- never should have tried to convert the multi-dementional game of baseball into a uni-demensional power game both from the mound and from the batter's box. They have killed off more pitchers than you can shake a stick at and they can't backfill them fast enough. The result of that is guys that in past decades would never have made it out of AA ball, now pitching in a MLB uni.

- should not have engaged in this effort to change the baseball multiple times not to redress an imbalance but specifically to create absurd imbalances.

- should have done something to mitigate the shift as the shift is being fed by computer data. Nobody cares about whether a team has a good computer geek or not. I have yet to see an award for MVCG and if I ever do, that will be the last MLB game I watch. The shift helps bias hitters to get the ball in the air and hit a HR when in fact any number of other decisions and actions from the batter's box would be effective for a particular time and place in the game.

 

All in it has created uncompetitive, nibble around the edges pitchers that don't challenge any hitters and that don't have enough command of their pitches to gain control of even one side of the plate. Pitchers no longer challenge hitters because they either can't or won't. They are either not good enough to do it or not confident enough to do it and probably BOTH! Hitters are allowed to reach across the entire plate and even a few inches beyond that, a complete travesty and a detail of the game that younger fans do not even recognize while heralding today's hitter as the best ever....Best ever MY ASS!

 

If I had my way and I was trying to direct MLB's efforts I would have biased them away from all of these rules changes and all these manipulations of the baseball and all this power propaganda. I would have drilled into young fans something that I have said here many times: Everything that happens on the diamond starts with THE BALL in the hand of THE PITCHER. First understand what he is trying to do with that ball at a level of detail that allows you to determine who is pitching competitively and who is not, who is challenging hitters and who is not and suddenly all of the actual beauty of this game opens up to the viewer. I would have lived or died with that as a sports enterprise, pass or fail at least pass or fail on what you are, not some fabricated facade.

 

This is coming from a hitter. I HATE PITCHERS (a little strongly worded but not far from the truth). But if as a fan you cannot or refuse to understand what the pitcher is trying to do not at a stat level of detail or wins level of detail but at a field competition level of detail you will always be lost and the game will always be a mystery to you. Efforts to change the game as a means to continue to avoid what MLB should have been doing all this time will only rob them of fan base faster in the end.

Edited July 9, 2019 by jung

[Kimmi]

That is mainly because the 5th spot has been a black hole and Porcello, normall an innings eater, is pitching terribly.

 

The 5th spot has been a problem for sure. I've said many times that I'd prefer getting a 5th starter over getting bullpen help.

 

ERod's IP/GS is up to 5.7 from 5.4 last year.

Porcello's is down to 5.5 from 5.8 last year.

Price's is down to 5.2 from 5.9 last year.

Sale's is the same as last year at 5.9. This year, however, Sale is getting pulled early more because of not pitching well than he is because of being pampered.

 

Also, here are the average Game Scores of the starters this year as opposed to last year:

 

ERod 50.4 vs 53.5

Porcello 53.2 vs 46.3

Price 55.9 vs 56.3

Sale 65.8 vs 57.6

 

Bottom line: The starters, on the whole, are not getting it done. It's all of them in one way or another, not just Porcello.

[Elktonnick]

The 5th spot has been a problem for sure. I've said many times that I'd prefer getting a 5th starter over getting bullpen help.

 

ERod's IP/GS is up to 5.7 from 5.4 last year.

Porcello's is down to 5.5 from 5.8 last year.

Price's is down to 5.2 from 5.9 last year.

Sale's is the same as last year at 5.9. This year, however, Sale is getting pulled early more because of not pitching well than he is because of being pampered.

 

Also, here are the average Game Scores of the starters this year as opposed to last year:

 

ERod 50.4 vs 53.5

Porcello 53.2 vs 46.3

Price 55.9 vs 56.3

Sale 65.8 vs 57.6

 

Bottom line: The starters, on the whole, are not getting it done. It's all of them in one way or another, not just Porcello.

 

While I don't contest your overall premise about the starters and their performance issues, I do take issue with using comparison data on runs scored to date between this year and last as proof to make the point. The manager's failure to prepare the starters during spring training meant they began the year with a major competitive disadvantage. The were two to three weeks behind in their preparation from that they would have had if they had a normal ST regime.

[OH FOY]

Not 2 or 3 weeks behind anymore.

Maybe April-OK Team 4.66 ERA 12-14 W-L

May team had a 3.82 ERA 16-11 W-L

June, half a season gone - 4.73 ERA 15-12 W-L

July- Holy crap still early of course but its 5.43 5-1 W-L

Spring training was a long time ago. Not buying new regime anymore on Spring Training in July.

Edited July 9, 2019 by OH FOY!

[a700hitter]

The 5th spot has been a problem for sure. I've said many times that I'd prefer getting a 5th starter over getting bullpen help.

 

ERod's IP/GS is up to 5.7 from 5.4 last year.

Porcello's is down to 5.5 from 5.8 last year.

Price's is down to 5.2 from 5.9 last year.

Sale's is the same as last year at 5.9. This year, however, Sale is getting pulled early more because of not pitching well than he is because of being pampered.

 

Also, here are the average Game Scores of the starters this year as opposed to last year:

 

ERod 50.4 vs 53.5

Porcello 53.2 vs 46.3

Price 55.9 vs 56.3

Sale 65.8 vs 57.6

 

Bottom line: The starters, on the whole, are not getting it done. It's all of them in one way or another, not just Porcello.

I don’t lump all of the starters together and conclude that they are not getting it done. We need a 5th starter and Porcello needs to get straightened out. Price is fine. He is not a problem. ERod is going deep into games more often than ever before. Sale has been the victim of lack of support, bad defense and the bullpen losing 5 quality starts. In two of those games he gave up 1 run. One was a 1-0 loss. In another game he struck out an unbelievable 17 batters and they managed to lose that game. Other than those quality starts, he gave up 4 runs against the wrecking ball Yankees offense, and our offense answered with 0 runs. These were all games where he did the job and he was spectacular in 3 or 4 of those games and his team found a way to lose. Sale is not a problem and doesn’t need to step up. Part of the reason that Sale and Price are not going deep often enough is that Cora is saving them for a post season that may never come.

 

Even if these guys go deep more often, it will not cure this undermanned bullpen which only has 2/3 major league arms— Barnes (who has been awful), Workman and possibly Brasier. This bullpen needs fixing or we will never get on a sustained winning path, because they are too unreliable and will blow games where the starters put up quality starts.

 

Here’s a message for DD. Yes, we desperately need a #5 if you put Eovaldi in the pen, but it is the bullpen stupid! That is the problem.

Edited July 9, 2019 by a700hitter

[jacksonianmarch]

The sox need a 5th starter who can give them 5 innings reliably. They also need a closer. A real closer. Not a guy who has never done it before being pushed to the pen due to injury and ineffectiveness

[a700hitter]

The sox need a 5th starter who can give them 5 innings reliably. They also need a closer. A real closer. Not a guy who has never done it before being pushed to the pen due to injury and ineffectiveness

Yes, please forward this to DD ASAP.

[moonslav59]

Not 2 or 3 weeks behind anymore.

Maybe April-OK Team 4.66 ERA 12-14 W-L

May team had a 3.82 ERA 16-11 W-L

June, half a season gone - 4.73 ERA 15-12 W-L

July- Holy crap still early of course but its 5.43 5-1 W-L

Spring training was a long time ago. Not buying new regime anymore on Spring Training in July.

 

Exactly. We can't blame June/July on a few missed innings pitched in ST'ing.

 

(I think counting March/April- 30 games- as being related to restgate is pushing it, too.

 

Our starters have had one good month. I'm hopeful they all return to form, soon and begin carrying us for the remainder.

Edited July 9, 2019 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

Our SP'ing ERA since June 6th is 5.00 (20th in MLB).

 

29 games/ 145.2 IP (a hair over 5 IP/GS)

 

1.44 WHIP (21st)