A Realistic View at 2019: Part II

[dgalehouse]

I don't know if many are aware of it , but if tonight's All Star game goes into extra innings, the inning will start with a runner on second base . Another of Manfred's gimmicks.

[moonslav59]

Individual ERAs since June 6th:

 

9+ IP unless noted

 

SP'ers:

2.16 Johnson (8.1 IP)

3.99 Price

4.21 ERod

4.32 Velazquez (8.1- some as RP'er)

4.55 Sale

5,73 J Smith (some as RP'er)

6.54 Porcello

9.00 DHern (3 IP)

13.50 Weber (1.1 IP)

 

RP'ers:

1.38 Workman

1.93 Hembree (5 IP)

2.77 Brasier

2.93 Brewer

3.86 Lakins

4.11 Taylor

4.50 Wright (6 IP)

7.43 Barnes

8.53 Shawaryn

8.53 Walden

15.00 Poyner (3 IP)

[moonslav59]

I don't know if many are aware of it , but if tonight's All Star game goes into extra innings, the inning will start with a runner on second base . Another of Manfred's gimmicks.

 

...anything to get the dumb game over with quicker.

[a700hitter]

Despite having no 5th Starter and Porcello has been sucking, our starters have more Quality Starts 33 than the Yankees 30. The Red Sox Bullpen has the most blown saves in the league (18) and the lowest percentage of save conversions (50%).

[a700hitter]

Individual ERAs since June 6th:

 

9+ IP unless noted

 

SP'ers:

2.16 Johnson (8.1 IP)

3.99 Price

4.21 ERod

4.32 Velazquez (8.1- some as RP'er)

4.55 Sale

5,73 J Smith (some as RP'er)

6.54 Porcello

9.00 DHern (3 IP)

13.50 Weber (1.1 IP)

 

RP'ers:

1.38 Workman

1.93 Hembree (5 IP)

2.77 Brasier

2.93 Brewer

3.86 Lakins

4.11 Taylor

4.50 Wright (6 IP)

7.43 Barnes

8.53 Shawaryn

8.53 Walden

15.00 Poyner (3 IP)

Could you give me a precise time for these stats on June 6th to make them more meaningful?

[jung]

I just heard this on radio and damned near laughed my ass off when I heard it.

 

The last game of the College World Series, The COLLEGE WORLD SERIES outdrew ESPN's MLB national baseball telecasts that week.

 

In fact, the College Softball World Series outdrew ESPN's MLB national baseball telecasts that week. Who the f*** does MLB think it is kidding with this s***. Everything they have tried, some of it they are unwilling to admit to is FAILING. I might actually outlive MLB and that was hard for me to imagine not more than a decade ago.

[Kimmi]

While I don't contest your overall premise about the starters and their performance issues, I do take issue with using comparison data on runs scored to date between this year and last as proof to make the point. The manager's failure to prepare the starters during spring training meant they began the year with a major competitive disadvantage. The were two to three weeks behind in their preparation from that they would have had if they had a normal ST regime.

 

I do not disagree with your point that Cora did not have the team ready to play out of spring training. That said, I am going to see how the remainder of the season plays out before criticizing Cora for this. If the team, starters in particular, look really strong down the stretch and into the playoffs, then maybe Cora's approach worked. That said, the starters not being ready at the beginning of the season put the bullpen in a hole from the get go.

[moonslav59]

I do not disagree with your point that Cora did not have the team ready to play out of spring training. That said, I am going to see how the remainder of the season plays out before criticizing Cora for this. If the team, starters in particular, look really strong down the stretch and into the playoffs, then maybe Cora's approach worked. That said, the starters not being ready at the beginning of the season put the bullpen in a hole from the get go.

 

You'd think all the extra rest in ST'ing and pampering in April, May and June, we'd see strong starters now, but we are not.

 

I'm hopeful it pays dividends in October, too.

[Kimmi]

I don’t lump all of the starters together and conclude that they are not getting it done. We need a 5th starter and Porcello needs to get straightened out. Price is fine. He is not a problem. ERod is going deep into games more often than ever before. Sale has been the victim of lack of support, bad defense and the bullpen losing 5 quality starts. In two of those games he gave up 1 run. One was a 1-0 loss. In another game he struck out an unbelievable 17 batters and they managed to lose that game. Other than those quality starts, he gave up 4 runs against the wrecking ball Yankees offense, and our offense answered with 0 runs. These were all games where he did the job and he was spectacular in 3 or 4 of those games and his team found a way to lose. Sale is not a problem and doesn’t need to step up. Part of the reason that Sale and Price are not going deep often enough is that Cora is saving them for a post season that may never come.

 

Even if these guys go deep more often, it will not cure this undermanned bullpen which only has 2/3 major league arms— Barnes (who has been awful), Workman and possibly Brasier. This bullpen needs fixing or we will never get on a sustained winning path, because they are too unreliable and will blow games where the starters put up quality starts.

 

Here’s a message for DD. Yes, we desperately need a #5 if you put Eovaldi in the pen, but it is the bullpen stupid! That is the problem.

 

Game Score measures the pitcher's performance, not whether the offense gave the pitcher any run support. That being the case, Sale is obviously not pitching at the level that he did last season. I know that he was the victim of some tough losses. You should know me well enough by now to know that I wouldn't count those against Sale. But letting him off the hook while blaming Porcello is rather unfair. Sale is as much to blame, if not more to blame, than Porcello.

 

Once again, the BP would not be as much of a problem if the starters were doing their job.

 

On the 5th pitcher spot, we agree completely.

[Kimmi]

Despite having no 5th Starter and Porcello has been sucking, our starters have more Quality Starts 33 than the Yankees 30. The Red Sox Bullpen has the most blown saves in the league (18) and the lowest percentage of save conversions (50%).

 

Once again, the Yankees rotation was not meant to be a strength of their team. Their BP was, and their strong BP was designed to pick up a mediocre rotation, which they've done.

 

With the Sox a strong rotation was supposed to pick up a mediocre BP, which it hasn't.

[Kimmi]

You'd think all the extra rest in ST'ing and pampering in April, May and June, we'd see strong starters now, but we are not.

 

I'm hopeful it pays dividends in October, too.

 

We will see. We need our starters have a strong 2nd half.

[Bellhorn04]

I do not disagree with your point that Cora did not have the team ready to play out of spring training. That said, I am going to see how the remainder of the season plays out before criticizing Cora for this. If the team, starters in particular, look really strong down the stretch and into the playoffs, then maybe Cora's approach worked. That said, the starters not being ready at the beginning of the season put the bullpen in a hole from the get go.

 

You'd think all the extra rest in ST'ing and pampering in April, May and June, we'd see strong starters now, but we are not.

 

I'm hopeful it pays dividends in October, too.

 

I don't see how 4-6 less innings in spring games could possibly have such a big impact one way or the other.

 

Sale and Porcello are struggling this year, it's as simple as that. And Sale has had a lot of things going on with him since last July.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Bellhorn04

[Elktonnick]

You'd think all the extra rest in ST'ing and pampering in April, May and June, we'd see strong starters now, but we are not.

 

I'm hopeful it pays dividends in October, too.

 

I am curious why do you only post in bold face type. Its as if you are always shouting.

[Elktonnick]

I don't see how 4-6 less innings in spring games could possibly have such a big impact one way or the other.

 

Sale and Porcello are struggling this year, it's as simple as that. And Sale has had a lot of things going on with him since last July.

 

a 3 and 8 start makes a big difference. The team has been playing catchup ever since.

[a700hitter]

Once again, the Yankees rotation was not meant to be a strength of their team. Their BP was, and their strong BP was designed to pick up a mediocre rotation, which they've done.

 

With the Sox a strong rotation was supposed to pick up a mediocre BP, which it hasn't.

But it is the worst bullpen in the league. It is not mediocre.

[Swiharts Ghost]

We will see. We need our starters have a strong 2nd half.

 

Yes they do .I can't tell you how engaged my entire family was in 18 start to finish .I am the only sap who gives a rip this year out of all my diehard friends and family .Dave really screwed this teams momentum up with the poor signings and absolute failure to help bolster the team even as we speak .I am sickened by how bad our starters are and the bullpen .I think it's ultimatum time with Dave .Fix this team via trade or start the rebuild NOW !! They are a boring group of players.They need a spark .The spark should have come well over a month ago.

[Kimmi]

I don't see how 4-6 less innings in spring games could possibly have such a big impact one way or the other.

 

Sale and Porcello are struggling this year, it's as simple as that. And Sale has had a lot of things going on with him since last July.

 

As many have said, it's not the lack of ST innings by itself, but rather a combination of several factors that caused the Red Sox slow start.

 

However, I do think that Cora's philosophy or attitude during ST probably contributed.

[a700hitter]

Game Score measures the pitcher's performance, not whether the offense gave the pitcher any run support. That being the case, Sale is obviously not pitching at the level that he did last season. I know that he was the victim of some tough losses. You should know me well enough by now to know that I wouldn't count those against Sale. But letting him off the hook while blaming Porcello is rather unfair. Sale is as much to blame, if not more to blame, than Porcello.

 

Once again, the BP would not be as much of a problem if the starters were doing their job.

 

On the 5th pitcher spot, we agree completely.

Porcello has been terrible throughout the first half. Sale has rebounded after building his arm strength and velocity. He was better in the first half last season, but he was in his own universe before the All Star break last season. It's unrealistic to expect that level of play every year, unless your name is Scherzer.

[Kimmi]

But it is the worst bullpen in the league. It is not mediocre.

 

Because the starters forced the BP to pitch more innings and in situations that they should not have had to pitch in.

 

I'm not denying that the pen needs help. I'm saying that solidifying the rotation will help fix the pen.

[a700hitter]

Because the starters forced the BP to pitch more innings and in situations that they should not have had to pitch in.

 

I'm not denying that the pen needs help. I'm saying that solidifying the rotation will help fix the pen.

No, because there are only 3 major league arms in the bullpen and they are little more than mediocre. The rest are bush leaguers.

[Kimmi]

Yes they do .I can't tell you how engaged my entire family was in 18 start to finish .I am the only sap who gives a rip this year out of all my diehard friends and family .Dave really screwed this teams momentum up with the poor signings and absolute failure to help bolster the team even as we speak .I am sickened by how bad our starters are and the bullpen .I think it's ultimatum time with Dave .Fix this team via trade or start the rebuild NOW !! They are a boring group of players.They need a spark .The spark should have come well over a month ago.

 

I'm not quite as down on this team as you are, but I do agree that Dombrowski needs to make a move or two to bolster our pitching. The problem is, Dombrowski's hands are somewhat tied by a weak farm system and financial constraints. There is only so much he will be able to do.

[moonslav59]

Because the starters forced the BP to pitch more innings and in situations that they should not have had to pitch in.

 

I'm not denying that the pen needs help. I'm saying that solidifying the rotation will help fix the pen.

 

...plus, it's worst only in blown saves, which do not capture all the times our pen went 5, 6, 7 and even 10+ innings pitching very well in helping us win many games.

 

Our pen is 16th in OPS Against .750.

Edited July 9, 2019 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

As many have said, it's not the lack of ST innings by itself, but rather a combination of several factors that caused the Red Sox slow start.

 

However, I do think that Cora's philosophy or attitude during ST probably contributed.

 

Could be. But I don't think Cora thought 4-6 innings less in spring games was going to make the pitchers stronger down the stretch this year. It's a pretty small difference, no?

[Kimmi]

Could be. But I don't think Cora thought 4-6 innings less in spring games was going to make the pitchers stronger down the stretch this year. It's a pretty small difference, no?

 

I think it's more the slow build than the actual number of innings, but that's just a guess. Also, 4-6 innings might not be very significant, but those innings along with innings saved throughout the season will add up.

 

I'm not trying to bash Cora. I'm a huge Cora fan. Just trying to figure out what the heck is wrong with this team.

[Kimmi]

...plus, it's worst only in blown saves, which do not capture all the times our pen went 5, 6, 7 and even 10+ innings pitching very well in helping us win many games.

 

Exactly. Blown saves is not the best way to rate your bullpen, which I know you know, just like W-L is not the best way to rate your starters.

[Elktonnick]

Could be. But I don't think Cora thought 4-6 innings less in spring games was going to make the pitchers stronger down the stretch this year. It's a pretty small difference, no?

 

I think you have totally missed the point. The starters weren't ready to pitch in major league games in April. The result was they lost 8 of 11, games against teams they should have beaten. And in the process taxed the bullpen needlessly.

[Bellhorn04]

I think you have totally missed the point. The starters weren't ready to pitch in major league games in April. The result was they lost 8 of 11, games against teams they should have beaten. And in the process taxed the bullpen needlessly.

 

No, I didn't miss the point. You just didn't read the posts by Kimmi and moon that I responded to.

[a700hitter]

I don't see how 4-6 less innings in spring games could possibly have such a big impact one way or the other.

 

Sale and Porcello are struggling this year, it's as simple as that. And Sale has had a lot of things going on with him since last July.

It was pretty obvious that Sale had not built the requisite arm strength in Spring Training. His velocity was way down at the start of the season. There was a game when he was at 89. That was eye-opening from him.

 

Also, let's turn around your argument. If the 4-6 less innings isn't enough to affect their readiness for the season, how could it possibly positively affect their freshness in August and September.

 

The number of spring innings is misleading. Often the aces are sent to the minor league complex to work against minor league hitters. That would not get reflected in their spring stats. This season, the throwing program was delayed and they just didn't throw off the mound anywhere near as much as prior years. It was a conscious decision and the team did not hide from the strategy. The difference was not just 4 to 6 innings. people here are trying to deny that the coaching staff implemented a throwing program that was designed to limit their mound throwing and it resulted in insufficient arm strength at the start of the season.

[moonslav59]

Could be. But I don't think Cora thought 4-6 innings less in spring games was going to make the pitchers stronger down the stretch this year. It's a pretty small difference, no?

 

Yes, and it's really too small a number to blame our poor numbers over the first 30 games... maybe once or twice through the rotation, but not 6 starts by all 5 starters.

 

I'm not defending Cora on rightfully preparing the team for game 1, but I think some are going overboard with the blame game.

[Bellhorn04]

It was pretty obvious that Sale had not built the requisite arm strength in Spring Training. His velocity was way down at the start of the season. There was a game when he was at 89. That was eye-opening from him.

 

Also, let's turn around your argument. If the 4-6 less innings isn't enough to affect their readiness for the season, how could it possibly positively affect their freshness in August and September.

 

That's exactly what I was trying to say. It couldn't make much difference either way.