A Realistic View at 2019: Part II

[moonslav59]

Nomar had nothing on Mike Hargrove. Remember him? His nickname was "The Human Rain Delay".

 

After every pitch, he stepped out of the box, adjusted his helmet and his gloves, and took 3 practice swings. And then, sometimes, readjusted his helmet and gloves. Sometimes he would step in the box and step back out and do it all over again. And that sequence all happened without fail after EVERY PITCH!

 

And to make matters worse, he was a very selective hitter and took a lot of pitches. And to really compound the issue, as he was not only a pretty good hitter, but he was especially good at drawing walks, he frequently hit leadoff. He could come up 5 times a game!! And did so alot!!

 

When Hargrove came up, you had time to go to the fridge and get a snack. And if there was nothing good to snack on, you actually had time to go to the store and buy something good. And you had to, because many people starved to death waiting for his at bat to come to an end.

 

In retrospect, Nomar wasn't so bad...

 

It wasn't so much the delay as it just bugged me.

[a700hitter]

The whole organization has given up this season. I went on the website to check the schedule to see when the Giants are in town in September and noticed that the website only lists the 2020 schedule in the drop-down menu.

[moonslav59]

The whole organization has given up this season. I went on the website to check the schedule to see when the Giants are in town in September and noticed that the website only lists the 2020 schedule in the drop-down menu.

 

Weird.

 

But then again, the signs of giving up have been around a while.

[moonslav59]

The Sox have 3 everyday players in the top 12 by WAR:

 

5. Bogey 5.5

7. Devers 5.4

12. Betts 4.8

 

The top Yankee is a guy I mentioned the Sox should look into: DJ LeMahieu 4.5 (17th)

 

The Astros have 3 in the top 18:

6. Bregman 5.5

16. Springer 4.5

18. Brantley 4.4

 

Who'd have guessed Lance Lynn and Charlie Morton would be 2 and 3 in pitching WAR?

 

The Sox have 2 pitchers in the top 46:

16. Sale 3.6

46. ERod 2.0

 

The Yanks have 1 at #36 (Tanaka 2.4)

 

We got burned on the role players, bench and pen.

 

The Astros have 4 in the top 45, including 3 in the top 11:

6. Cole 4.5

7. Verlander 4.4

11. Greinke 4.1

45. Miley 2.0

 

The Dodgers have 3 in the top 21.

The Twins have 3 in the top 33.

 

The Astros have 3 of the top 18 everyday players and 3 of the top 11 pitchers. They strengthened their bench at the deadline, too.

[jung]

Nomar had nothing on Mike Hargrove. Remember him? His nickname was "The Human Rain Delay".

 

After every pitch, he stepped out of the box, adjusted his helmet and his gloves, and took 3 practice swings. And then, sometimes, readjusted his helmet and gloves. Sometimes he would step in the box and step back out and do it all over again. And that sequence all happened without fail after EVERY PITCH!

 

And to make matters worse, he was a very selective hitter and took a lot of pitches. And to really compound the issue, as he was not only a pretty good hitter, but he was especially good at drawing walks, he frequently hit leadoff. He could come up 5 times a game!! And did so alot!!

 

When Hargrove came up, you had time to go to the fridge and get a snack. And if there was nothing good to snack on, you actually had time to go to the store and buy something good. And you had to, because many people starved to death waiting for his at bat to come to an end.

 

In retrospect, Nomar wasn't so bad...

 

Actually it is the time taken for this nonsense that matters. There are no longer Pitchers that do what many pitchers did while batters were going through all this nonsense outside the batter's box WHERE THEY SHOULD NOT BE between pitches. More pitchers were closer to if not doing what Andy Petitte used to do when these hitters are going through all this nonsense, consulting with the cosmos or their dead ancestors or what have you. Want to stick a foot out....fine. Once they get both feet outside the box over NOTHING....uncontested ball and strike calls....NOTHING....pitches they did not even swing at....NOTHING they can do whatever they want. Enforce the rule for f*** sake and if that is not enough, stiffen the rule.

 

I would say the time taken by hitters for this nonsense from both teams for an inning is as much as 4 minutes on average per inning just for all the hitters both teams. Then take on another 2 minutes an inning because the pitchers are no longer standing on the rubber, glove up, ball in hand waiting for the hitters to end their lunacy and the pitcher does not even have a sign yet! That is 6 minutes total an inning x 9 innings or 54 minutes of horse s***.

 

So NOOOOOOOO, we don't need a mercy rule for the time and we don't need a mercy rule to save pitchers. We need MLB to enforce the rules that exist for hitters and the batter's box and/or stiffen them and we need MLB to value command on an equal footing with velo and spin rate as it used to be in pitching and we need an honest commissioner and an honest baseball again (meaning one that does not perform so far outside a nominal rate of performance).

 

As for our town team, Mookie is about the only hitter we have that does it the right way, time and again, AB after AB. He does not even get out of the box after he has been buzzed. Sticks a single foot out now and again and that is about it. The rest of them act like they are conducting a seance at Home Plate or having a Sunday picnic at the Public Gardens.

 

But the last straw was that the Pitchers noticed how much time the batters were taking and simply refuse to stand there ready to throw for all that nonsense. The Pitchers don't do jack anymore until they see that the batter once again has at least one foot back in the box which is where the batter should have been in the first place!!!!! I would offer that at least half of that 54 minute estimate per game of pure waste is entirely unjustified and the other half is not much better.

Edited August 23, 2019 by jung

[moonslav59]

Times are bad.

 

For the first time ever, I read all the top threads and found no post I felt any desire to respond to.

[mvp 78]

Times are bad.

 

For the first time ever, I read all the top threads and found no post I felt any desire to respond to.

 

Hilarious

[notin]

Times are bad.

 

For the first time ever, I read all the top threads and found no post I felt any desire to respond to.

 

Start a thread about 2020 if that’s what you want to discuss. People who don’t want to talk about it yet or want to focus on 2019 can just avoid it and talk on those dedicated treads...

[notin]

The whole organization has given up this season. I went on the website to check the schedule to see when the Giants are in town in September and noticed that the website only lists the 2020 schedule in the drop-down menu.

 

Click on "Sortable Schedule" from that same drop down and you can access the remaining 2019 games...

[moonslav59]

Start a thread about 2020 if that’s what you want to discuss. People who don’t want to talk about it yet or want to focus on 2019 can just avoid it and talk on those dedicated treads...

 

I'll start one, soon.

[Maxbialystock]

The whole organization has given up this season. I went on the website to check the schedule to see when the Giants are in town in September and noticed that the website only lists the 2020 schedule in the drop-down menu.

 

You could be right, but I don't see it that way. For one thing, the wild card is still possible. For another, the lineup is still pretty good--those to execrable losses to the Phillies notwithstanding-- and lately so is the bullpen.

 

The problem all season long has been the rotation, the overpaid guys who to a man have stunk--except of course for ERod.

 

The rotation is why I have a lot of sympathy for moonslav59's turn toward pessimism.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Maxbialystock

[a700hitter]

You could be right, but I don't see it that way. For one thing, the wild card is still possible. For another, the lineup is still pretty good--those to execrable losses to the Phillies notwithstanding-- and lately so is the bullpen.

 

The problem all season long has been the rotation, the overpaid guys who to a man have stunk--except of course for ERod.

 

The rotation is why I have a lot of sympathy for moonslav59's turn toward pessimism.

 

Creighton

If DD had filled the 5th spot and acquired some starting depth, built a major league bullpen, and Cora had put Porcello in the bullpen right after the All Star Break, we would be a Wild Card team at this juncture.

[moonslav59]

If DD had filled the 5th spot and acquired some starting depth, built a major league bullpen, and Cora had put Porcello in the bullpen right after the All Star Break, we would be a Wild Card team at this juncture.

 

That's assuming he guessed right on the additions and was able to go over the max line.

 

He did acquire Cashner for the 5th spot- he just sucked for us.

 

No pen help was criminal negligence.

[Maxbialystock]

That's assuming he guessed right on the additions and was able to go over the max line.

 

He did acquire Cashner for the 5th spot- he just sucked for us.

 

No pen help was criminal negligence.

 

Pen help is bound to be a crapshoot unless you spend big, which DD can't afford this year.

[moonslav59]

Pen help is bound to be a crapshoot unless you spend big, which DD can't afford this year.

 

True, but we had a few million and at the deadline, you only owe a player about 1/3 of his salary. We could have tried.

[a700hitter]

That's assuming he guessed right on the additions and was able to go over the max line.

 

He did acquire Cashner for the 5th spot- he just sucked for us.

 

No pen help was criminal negligence.

Agreed, but DD doing nothing had no chance of success. I also think Cora gave Porcello too much rope. I think Porcello should just get a nice cake and a goodbye card at the end of the season. I have no desire to see him come back.

[moonslav59]

Agreed, but DD doing nothing had no chance of success. I also think Cora gave Porcello too much rope. I think Porcello should just get a nice cake and a goodbye card at the end of the season. I have no desire to see him come back.

 

Since pen additions are crapshoots, he may have had little chance but not no chance.

 

Not getting anyone is "no chance."

 

He also had a chance to sign different players than Eovaldi and Pearce, although he had valid reasons to sign both.

 

He could have spent the money on 3-4 players.

 

He had "chances."

[dgalehouse]

Pen help is bound to be a crapshoot unless you spend big, which DD can't afford this year.

 

When you have the most expensive house on the block , you really should have set aside some money for the dining room . Even the best house can be hurt by cheap furniture .

[a700hitter]

Since pen additions are crapshoots, he may have had little chance but not no chance.

 

Not getting anyone is "no chance."

 

He also had a chance to sign different players than Eovaldi and Pearce, although he had valid reasons to sign both.

 

He could have spent the money on 3-4 players.

 

He had "chances."

It's on DD and to a lesser degree Cora

[moonslav59]

When you have the most expensive house on the block , you really should have set aside some money for the dining room . Even the best house can be hurt by cheap furniture .

 

Yes, the tight budget was DD's doing, but I don't hold it against him, since it worked. We have a ring because of his spending and trades.

 

That doesn't mean he's not to blame for the mess we're in, now. A great GM plans to win without sacrificing so much of the future. DD went overboard to win. Perhaps, he had to do it. Perhaps not. Theo did a pretty good juggling act and Ben tried to do both, and actually did get one ring due to some bold moves (like the Dodger dump), but he was too close to the 10 last place finishes for one ring for most fans' liking.

 

I have no issues with DD, but I knew what was going to happen. It's pay the piper time.

 

 

A little history: I've been a Sox fan since the early 70's. We had some very good teams but never did what it took to put us over the top. (We had some bad luck, too, but that's not part of my point.)

 

I used to argue with my friends and relative that I'd gladly have us finish in last place 10 times for just one ring. I know, I was young then. That's not good business, and I might have stopped watching after 5 years of horrible play, but the sentiment has merit. Finishing so close for many years might keep fans in the park, but it sucks.

 

Once we won a ring, of course, I didn't want us to suck for 1 year, let alone 10, but winning it all is what makes me most happy, and I'm okay with a few off years here and there, as long as I feel like there is a plan to get better--way better--ring winning better.

 

Currently, there is a a big challenge in regards to our future. I don't think DD is the guy to initiate and implement a rebuilding plan. I'm hopeful the rebuild will not take long and we can keep a few core players along the way, and they'll still be here for the next ring (Devers, Bogey, Sale and maybe Betts).

 

Let's see.

 

[Nick]

2019 is all on the players. What, now we're babying the players that make collectively $243M?

[Bellhorn04]

2019 is all on the players. What, now we're babying the players that make collectively $243M?

 

Not really. Us armchair GM's and managers just love to pick apart the real ones, that's all.

 

When players play s***** or don't play because they're hurt, they take their lumps. There was a party when Nunez was booted, and there are more planned for the departures of Porcello, Moreland, Pearce et cetera.

[oldtimer]

2019 is all on the players. What, now we're babying the players that make collectively $243M?

 

In a way, but some players can do the job very well and the team still can have a bad record. An example would be Devers who has been terrific. So it was the play of some of the players and in particular the starters who for whatever reason didn;t get the job done while guys like Bogie and Devers did very well.

[moonslav59]

In a way, but some players can do the job very well and the team still can have a bad record. An example would be Devers who has been terrific. So it was the play of some of the players and in particular the starters who for whatever reason didn;t get the job done while guys like Bogie and Devers did very well.

 

Bogie, Devers, Vazquez, Workman and when used, Marco have done well.

 

Walden & ERod, too.

 

All the rest fell short of my hopes or expectations.

[oldtimer]

Yes, the tight budget was DD's doing, but I don't hold it against him, since it worked. We have a ring because of his spending and trades.

 

That doesn't mean he's not to blame for the mess we're in, now. A great GM plans to win without sacrificing so much of the future. DD went overboard to win. Perhaps, he had to do it. Perhaps not. Theo did a pretty good juggling act and Ben tried to do both, and actually did get one ring due to some bold moves (like the Dodger dump), but he was too close to the 10 last place finishes for one ring for most fans' liking.

 

I have no issues with DD, but I knew what was going to happen. It's pay the piper time.

 

 

A little history: I've been a Sox fan since the early 70's. We had some very good teams but never did what it took to put us over the top. (We had some bad luck, too, but that's not part of my point.)

 

I used to argue with my friends and relative that I'd gladly have us finish in last place 10 times for just one ring. I know, I was young then. That's not good business, and I might have stopped watching after 5 years of horrible play, but the sentiment has merit. Finishing so close for many years might keep fans in the park, but it sucks.

 

Once we won a ring, of course, I didn't want us to suck for 1 year, let alone 10, but winning it all is what makes me most happy, and I'm okay with a few off years here and there, as long as I feel like there is a plan to get better--way better--ring winning better.

 

Currently, there is a a big challenge in regards to our future. I don't think DD is the guy to initiate and implement a rebuilding plan. I'm hopeful the rebuild will not take long and we can keep a few core players along the way, and they'll still be here for the next ring (Devers, Bogey, Sale and maybe Betts).

 

Let's see.

 

 

I am one of those guys who believes we are cooked but I am willing to wait for the mathematics to say it emphatically. At that point there will be time enough to discuss going forward, although some of that has been done already. The Sox need a Mission Statement. What are the short term and long term goals, and what are the approaches that will allow the mmission to be achieved? Along with that, who should we have lead us? In a business, if the CEO screws things up the board replaces him. Not so different here.

[moonslav59]

Of all players with 190+ PAs, here's how some of the top Offensive teams stcak up:

 

Yanks: 12 players over .715, 12 over .765, 9 over .815 & 1 over .915

Sox: 10 players over .715, 9 over .765, 8 over .815 & 3 over .915

MN: 13, 13, 9, 3

HOU: 9, 8, 7, 5

LAD: 10, 9, 5, 2

 

 

[notin]

Bogie, Devers, Vazquez, Workman and when used, Marco have done well.

 

Walden & ERod, too.

 

All the rest fell short of my hopes or expectations.

 

So JD Martinez has reached the point where a .960 OPS is disappointing?

[moonslav59]

So JD Martinez has reached the point where a .960 OPS is disappointing?

 

Point taken.

 

I'd add him to the list.

[moonslav59]

Look at these numbers:

 

OPS Player HRs

1.090 Alvarez 19 HRs in 252 PAs

.973 Bregman 32 HRs

.944 Brantley 19 HRs

.937 Springer 27 HRs

.922 Altuve 24 HRs

.914 Correa 19 HRs

.898 Gurriel 26 HRs

 

W-L Pitcher ERA

15-5 Cole 2.75

15-5 Verlander 2.77

14-4 Greinke 2.83

13-4 Miley 3.13

 

Closer

3-3 Osuna 2.73 (31 saves)

 

All I can say is, "WOW!"

 

[oldtimer]

Look at these numbers:

 

OPS Player HRs

1.090 Alvarez 19 HRs in 252 PAs

.973 Bregman 32 HRs

.944 Brantley 19 HRs

.937 Springer 27 HRs

.922 Altuve 24 HRs

.914 Correa 19 HRs

.898 Gurriel 26 HRs

 

W-L Pitcher ERA

15-5 Cole 2.75

15-5 Verlander 2.77

14-4 Greinke 2.83

13-4 Miley 3.13

 

Closer

3-3 Osuna 2.73 (31 saves)

 

All I can say is, "WOW!"

 

 

The Sox business plan going forward has to consider the likely competition they will face in Houston, Yankees, TB and Cleveland. If it looks unlikely we can compete in 2020 (it does), then it should be identified as the reset season and changes made should reflect that. A lot revolves around how well Sale, Price and Eovaldi can rebound from 2019. I view it as unlikely that all 3 can have fully competitive years in 2020 and there is a possibility all three could again have sub par years.