Sox nearing extension with Sale

[Bellhorn04]

Were either of these statements ever in dispute?

 

Only by the troll, of course.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Eric Van argues that Brian Johnson is already an above average starter and his arguments are more sabermetrically sophisticated than any of Jackson's "Brian Johnson sucks" statements.

 

True, the Red Sox haven't been overly successful in developing starting pitchers, but this is a new regime, led by a genius in Dave Dombrowski. For whatever reason, the combination of Dave Dombrowski's old school approach together with the organization's established analytical approach unleashed something pretty special, a team that won 108 games and was one of the greatest teams ever. Cora is part of that equation too, not only as a manager but as an evaluator of talent.

[Bellhorn04]

Eric Van argues that Brian Johnson is already an above average starter and his arguments are more sabermetrically sophisticated than any of Jackson's "Brian Johnson sucks" statements.

 

True, the Red Sox haven't been overly successful in developing starting pitchers, but this is a new regime, led by a genius in Dave Dombrowski. For whatever reason, the combination of Dave Dombrowski's old school approach together with the organization's established analytical approach unleashed something pretty special, a team that won 108 games and was one of the greatest teams ever. Cora is part of that equation too, not only as a manager but as an evaluator of talent.

 

Brian Bannister is also a key figure in the organization's pitching management.

[Bellhorn04]

He has two separate contracts, no?

 

My final answer is this.

 

IT WOULD BE f***ING STUPID FOR RED SOX TO PAY 92.5% PENALTY WHEN THEIR PAYROLL IS CLOSE TO DEATH PENALTY IN 2019.

 

If I'm wrong, my apologies.

 

As it turns out, we weren't the only ones with some uncertainty about the tax effects.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/03/red-sox-extend-chris-sale.html

[Hitch]

9:01pm: Sale has passed his physical, Rosenthal tweets, so all that remains is for the contract to be announced. Sale will earn $30MM in each of the first three seasons of the deal, after which time he has the right to opt out of the remaining two seasons. Those campaigns are valued at $27.5MM, meaning Sale will be deciding on two years and $55MM versus a trip onto the open market.

 

I like the deal even more if he opts out. You're getting to a very dangerous age with the way he throws the ball at that point. If he got through without any major injury and then opted out I'd consider it the perfect signing.

[Bellhorn04]

I like the deal even more if he opts out. You're getting to a very dangerous age with the way he throws the ball at that point. If he got through without any major injury and then opted out I'd consider it the perfect signing.

 

So you're saying you're not going to render your final opinion on the deal until the end of the year 2022.

 

Life's too short for that sort of thinking IMHO.

[Hitch]

So you're saying you're not going to render your final opinion on the deal until the end of the year 2022.

 

Life's too short for that sort of thinking IMHO.

 

It's unusual, I grant you.

[cp176]

Did you read the post I was referring to or are you just defending the laundry?

 

No not in an intellectual sense. You caught me again. Slasher does piss me off but I still support him and his comments. You don't have any problem with that loyalty thing do you?

[vjcsmoke]

The extension deal is reportedly 5 years/145m dollars.

 

That's only 29m per year. A super reasonable deal for an ace pitcher. I was expecting around 200m. Looks like Sale took a bit of a hometown discount.

 

We are really in great shape with our Ace locked up for the next 5 years!

 

This is really a great deal for the team.

 

Go Sox!!!

[cp176]

So you're saying you're not going to render your final opinion on the deal until the end of the year 2022.

 

Life's too short for that sort of thinking IMHO.

 

You think that i am alone here Bellhorn because I hope like hell that both JD and CS stay with us for the duration of their contracts? I understand the money and the analytics involved with these contracts but these two guys in my opinion bring things to the team that you can't put a price on. (I am sure though that there might be people who try).

[Bellhorn04]

You think that i am alone here Bellhorn because I hope like hell that both JD and CS stay with us for the duration of their contracts? I understand the money and the analytics involved with these contracts but these two guys in my opinion bring things to the team that you can't put a price on. (I am sure though that there might be people who try).

 

I'm the same. I hope JD is with us for the full 5 years. Unlike some, I was even happy that Price didn't opt out!

[cp176]

I'm the same. I hope JD is with us for the full 5 years. Unlike some, I was even happy that Price didn't opt out!

 

I am with you all the way on these types of things.

When you have something special like these guys with respect to what they mean to a team, you have to try to keep them.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

It is amazing what has happened to David Price, he has become a Red Sox post-season legend. I don't know if the Red Sox go all the way last year without him. He could be a HOF pitcher, but I'm not fully certain. He was great early in his career, and we can't overlook that dominance, and now he has done special things in the postseason. If he continues to pitch reasonably well over the next few seasons, rather than completely fall apart, he will be an interesting candidate for the HOF.

 

We have to credit Dave Dombrowski for signing him.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Fan_since_Boggs

[moonslav59]

What if it comes down to (after this season) a 5 year extension for JD ($120M/5) vs a 6 year deal for Bogey($150M/6)?

 

You can only chose 1.

[jacksonianmarch]

It is amazing what has happened to David Price, he has become a Red Sox post-season legend. I don't know if the Red Sox go all the way last year without him. He could be a HOF pitcher, but I'm not fully certain. He was great early in his career, and we can't overlook that dominance, and now he has done special things in the postseason. If he continues to pitch reasonably well over the next few seasons, rather than completely fall apart, he will be an interesting candidate for the HOF.

 

We have to credit Dave Dombrowski for signing him.

 

He was durable but middling in results in year 1. He was hurt in year 2. He was good in limited work last year and had a good 4 starts in the playoffs after getting lit up in his first two starts. He also gets destroyed by your rival. Cmon now, his contract was FAR more than others were offering and his one good postseason is not worth $217 mil

[jacksonianmarch]

Eric Van argues that Brian Johnson is already an above average starter and his arguments are more sabermetrically sophisticated than any of Jackson's "Brian Johnson sucks" statements.

 

True, the Red Sox haven't been overly successful in developing starting pitchers, but this is a new regime, led by a genius in Dave Dombrowski. For whatever reason, the combination of Dave Dombrowski's old school approach together with the organization's established analytical approach unleashed something pretty special, a team that won 108 games and was one of the greatest teams ever. Cora is part of that equation too, not only as a manager but as an evaluator of talent.

 

So you’ve got a puff piece that doesn’t like dealing with reality. Congratulations.

[jacksonianmarch]

The post where it was posited that one of Johnson, Hernandez, Houck, or Shawaryn could become a solid, cost-controlled starter? That may be a slightly rose-colored view, but I don't see it as rampant homerism by any means.

 

If Brian Johnson potentially being our #5 starter is the biggest problem we have to worry about next year, I'll be pretty content.

 

 

No, this stupid quote.

 

 

The Red Sox are loaded with starting pitching depth over the next few seasons and will have a lot of options. At some point soon (over the next 2-3 years) they will need to make decisions on Houck, Hernandez, and Shawaryn--are they going to be long term starters or transition to reliever, like Matt Barnes did a few years ago?

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Brian Bannister is also a key figure in the organization's pitching management.

 

Yep, and while Bannister wasn't hired by Dombrowski (Bannister was in the Red Sox organization before Dombrowski arrived), Bannister was promoted to his current position under Dombrowski, if I'm not mistaken.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Jackson: it must be tough to be a Yankees fan during this period of Red Sox dominance. I can sense your bitterness. The Yankees have a really good team, but the Red Sox are special. Red Sox fans had to live through the Yankees dominance in the late 1990s and now Yankees fans get to see what it is like from the other side. I guess it couldn't have been fun to watch the Yankees get completely destroyed by a much superior Red Sox team in the playoffs last year. Edited March 23, 2019 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Bellhorn04]

He was durable but middling in results in year 1. He was hurt in year 2. He was good in limited work last year and had a good 4 starts in the playoffs after getting lit up in his first two starts. He also gets destroyed by your rival. Cmon now, his contract was FAR more than others were offering and his one good postseason is not worth $217 mil

 

Price's contract was very close to market value. I would like to see some evidence that it wasn't.

[Bellhorn04]

So you’ve got a puff piece that doesn’t like dealing with reality. Congratulations.

 

It's true, though, that Johnson and Velazquez outpitched the Yankees' more highly touted depth options in 2018.

[Jack Flap]

No, this stupid quote.

 

Okay...? You seem like you're really looking for reasons to get pissed off in this thread...I wonder why.

[iortiz]

This was a bargain (a steal if you ask me) for the the Sox. Sale is arguably the best pitcher in the game if healthy of course, and since he passed the medical tests I assume he is.

[dgalehouse]

Eric Van argues that Brian Johnson is already an above average starter and his arguments are more sabermetrically sophisticated than any of Jackson's "Brian Johnson sucks" statements.

 

True, the Red Sox haven't been overly successful in developing starting pitchers, but this is a new regime, led by a genius in Dave Dombrowski. For whatever reason, the combination of Dave Dombrowski's old school approach together with the organization's established analytical approach unleashed something pretty special, a team that won 108 games and was one of the greatest teams ever. Cora is part of that equation too, not only as a manager but as an evaluator of talent.

 

" Sabermetrically sophisticated." I like that .

[notin]

Eric Van argues that Brian Johnson is already an above average starter and his arguments are more sabermetrically sophisticated than any of Jackson's "Brian Johnson sucks" statements.

 

 

Has Eric Van shared this with American League hitters? They seem blissfully unaware of his awesomeness.

 

Van also seems alone in his conclusion that Johnson is “above average.” That Johnson was worth 0.3 wins more than a replacement level pitcher would strongly counter this, even if you take into account his IP total.

 

His only “above average” pitch is his curveball. It’s tough to get above average pitching out of below average pitches that get put into play all the time...

[moonslav59]

Verlander extends for $66M/2.

[Bellhorn04]

More on the tax implications of Sale's deal:

 

There are deferred amounts in the deal that lower the AAV to 25.6 million.

 

Sale wanted to help the team have a little more payroll flexibility.

 

https://t.co/YjJhMXbmQe

[Bellhorn04]

Red Sox pitching coach Dana LeVangie describes Sale this way:

 

"A kid that didn't grow up in Boston but sure acts like he did."

[vegasbob]

Red Sox pitching coach Dana LeVangie describes Sale this way:

 

"A kid that didn't grow up in Boston but sure acts like he did."

 

Just a guess towards the future but something tells me that Sale is more the team player than Betts will be.

[Slasher9]

Red Sox pitching coach Dana LeVangie describes Sale this way:

 

"A kid that didn't grow up in Boston but sure acts like he did."

 

Thanks for sharing this quote. LoVE IT