Devers

[sk7326]

Devers was 2-for-4 with a homer, raising his average to .330. He had a monster road trip, hitting 13-for-27 (.481) with four homers, eight RBIs and eight runs in six games.

 

22 and looking to make the All Star Game. Kids can surprise you.

 

We should worry about extending him.

 

At his age, the power has still to come

[moonslav59]

At his age, the power has still to come

 

Not bad when you consider he's already averaging 25 HRs per 630 PAs.

[mvp 78]

My binky is pretty good.

 

I know how to pick em.

[OH FOY]

1 error for the Month of May. Man, hope I didn't put the kibosh on him.

[mvp 78]

Hit Dawg Devers

 

There is only one Hit Dog, and Devers ain't it.

[Kimmi]

Mal, I'd say that I love you like a brother but there's too much of an age difference for that so I'll say that I love you like a father. :-) However, if you've been reading these forums you must know by now that having your best hitter in the 3-hole is a waste of talent.

 

Me? the way Devers is progressing I'd live and die with him in the 3-spot, but what do I know?

 

It's a waste of potential. But then again, it's more important to put the batters where they feel comfortable. Our 1-5 guys are all pretty good, so Cora really can't lose no matter what he decides to go with.

 

I heard him comment that he was thinking about putting JD in the lead off spot. I, for one, would love to see that, just for the reaction that it would create (LOL), let alone that it would probably be a pretty good move.

[Kimmi]

The first inning is the most important inning of the ball game. You get 1 or 2 on and here comes your best hitter. Like Teddy, or Yaz, And, yes, like Devers.

 

The problem with that is that too often, the 1 and 2 guys don't get on. So here comes your best hitter, batting with 2 outs and nobody on. Wasted potential.

 

Put your best hitter in the 4th spot. He will either come up in the 1st inning with at least one runner on base, or he will lead off the 2nd inning.

[moonslav59]

Comfort is mythical.

[Bellhorn04]

The problem with that is that too often, the 1 and 2 guys don't get on. So here comes your best hitter, batting with 2 outs and nobody on. Wasted potential.

 

Put your best hitter in the 4th spot. He will either come up in the 1st inning with at least one runner on base, or he will lead off the 2nd inning.

 

But your best hitter is supposed to be in the 2nd spot and you're supposed to have high OBP guys in the first two spots.

 

I have to say that this stuff about the #3 hitter is the most counter-intuitive thing about lineup construction.

 

It might be worthy of its own thread!

[jung]

And what would JD do if he lead off and got to 1st base. Stand there waiting for somebody to drive him around? No wait, he might try to steal second, train wreck with a middle infielder, hurt his back again and put himself on the shelf for a week or two. Better yet, lets put JD in the OF more. That worked out real good!

 

This concentration on power stats being the end all be-all of baseball is frankly ridiculous. Worse, Commissioner Manfred is apparently all on board as I think it likely that he personally picked the 2019 rocket ship baseball which is clearly hotter than the 2016 rocket ship baseball, the 2017 rocket ship and the 2018 rocket ship.

[Bellhorn04]

And what would JD do if he lead off and got to 1st base. Stand there waiting for somebody to drive him around? No wait, he might try to steal second, train wreck with a middle infielder, hurt his back again and put himself on the shelf for a week or two. Better yet, lets put JD in the OF more. That worked out real good!

 

This concentration on power stats being the end all be-all of baseball is frankly ridiculous. Worse, Commissioner Manfred is apparently all on board as I think it likely that he personally picked the 2019 rocket ship baseball which is clearly hotter than the 2016 rocket ship baseball, the 2017 rocket ship and the 2018 rocket ship.

 

jung, did you catch the story that home run production has exploded in Triple A ball since they started using major league baseballs?

[jung]

jung, did you catch the story that home run production has exploded in Triple A ball since they started using major league baseballs?

 

That makes sense to me as a benchmark as last i looked, across AAA, they were all [until this year] with some variance league to league using baseballs roughly equivalent to the 2000-2010 official MLB baseballs.

 

To me one of the most interesting aspects of the 2019 official MLB baseball is not that it just keeps going and going even more than the rocket ship balls of the last couple years but that through 1/3 of the season, I have yet to find an OFer that has adapted to this thing even with their 2016 through 2018 experience. None of them have. Our guys have not as yet including JBJ and Mookie. You can see them out there virtually feeling for plays. JBJ who lives off his reads is doing better than our other OFers. But even he is struggling with this thing.

[bosoxmal]

When a hitter is this good, you DO NOT shift him around becasue of the opposing pitcher, or you've nade a lineup change elsewaher! Put this guy in the 2 hole and LEAVE HIM THE f*** THERE1

[Kimmi]

But your best hitter is supposed to be in the 2nd spot and you're supposed to have high OBP guys in the first two spots.

 

I have to say that this stuff about the #3 hitter is the most counter-intuitive thing about lineup construction.

 

It might be worthy of its own thread!

 

I haven't really seen a consensus that your best hitter should be in the #2 spot. I think that kind of took on a life of its own on this forum. My understanding is that you should place your 3 best hitters in the 1, 2 and 4 spots, with better OBP batting higher in the order and better SLG batting 4th. Then the next best hitter should bat 5th, the next best hitter after that should bat 3rd.

 

At any rate, if it comes down to a choice of batting JD 3rd or 4th, he should bat 4th for the reasons stated in my previous post. I don't see it counter-intuitive at all.

[Bellhorn04]

I haven't really seen a consensus that your best hitter should be in the #2 spot. I think that kind of took on a life of its own on this forum. My understanding is that you should place your 3 best hitters in the 1, 2 and 4 spots, with better OBP batting higher in the order and better SLG batting 4th. Then the next best hitter should bat 5th, the next best hitter after that should bat 3rd.

 

At any rate, if it comes down to a choice of batting JD 3rd or 4th, he should bat 4th for the reasons stated in my previous post. I don't see it counter-intuitive at all.

 

It's counter-intuitive because on the one hand, you should have high OBP guys in the top 2 spots. But the main argument against having one of your best hitters at #3 is that he comes up too often with bases empty and 2 outs.

 

There is sort of a direct contradiction in these 2 premises. It's no wonder that the idea confounds a lot of folks here.

[moonslav59]

I haven't really seen a consensus that your best hitter should be in the #2 spot. I think that kind of took on a life of its own on this forum. My understanding is that you should place your 3 best hitters in the 1, 2 and 4 spots, with better OBP batting higher in the order and better SLG batting 4th. Then the next best hitter should bat 5th, the next best hitter after that should bat 3rd.

 

At any rate, if it comes down to a choice of batting JD 3rd or 4th, he should bat 4th for the reasons stated in my previous post. I don't see it counter-intuitive at all.

 

Based on just this year's numbers, something I would not do, here might be our best line-up based on your presented guideline:

 

Best OPS+ and OBP

 

143 JD (.388)

136 Devers (.389)

136 Chavis (.376)

130 Betts (.400)

129 Bogey (.376)

124 Moreland (.320)

 

1. Devers

2. Chavis

3. Bogey

4. JD

5. Betts

 

Adjusting a little for speed and OBP...

1. Betts (.400 is our best OBP)

2. Devers (2nd best OBP)

3. Bogey (5th best hitter)

4. JD (Best hitter and most power)

5. Chavis (2nd best OPS+ placed in 4th most important slot)

6. Moreland

7. Vazquez

8. Beni

9. JBJ

 

[moonslav59]

It's counter-intuitive because on the one hand, you should have high OBP guys in the top 2 spots. But the main argument against having one of your best hitters at #3 is that he comes up too often with bases empty and 2 outs.

 

There is sort of a direct contradiction in these 2 premises. It's no wonder that the idea confounds a lot of folks here.

 

Assuming you have 2 guys up 1 and 2 with .380 OBPs, the chances your 3rd guy comes up with 2 outs and bases empty is still rather high. While the chances he comes up with one man on and one out of two men on with 2 outs is better than 50-50, it may not be enough to outweigh the none on occurences.

[Kimmi]

It's counter-intuitive because on the one hand, you should have high OBP guys in the top 2 spots. But the main argument against having one of your best hitters at #3 is that he comes up too often with bases empty and 2 outs.

 

There is sort of a direct contradiction in these 2 premises. It's no wonder that the idea confounds a lot of folks here.

 

I don't think there's a contradiction here. If your high OBP guys in the 1 and 2 slots get on base in the first inning, the #4 guy will get to bat in the 1st inning with at least one runner on base. And they have a better chance of getting on base than the other batters.

 

But if they fail to get on base, you have your best hitter leading off the 2nd inning, which is better than having him hit with 2 outs and no one on.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think there's a contradiction here. If your high OBP guys in the 1 and 2 slots get on base in the first inning, the #4 guy will get to bat in the 1st inning with at least one runner on base. And they have a better chance of getting on base than the other batters.

 

But if they fail to get on base, you have your best hitter leading off the 2nd inning, which is better than having him hit with 2 outs and no one on.

 

But if you're playing for a big first inning, why not also have a strong hitter at #3 who can drive in runs and also get on base for the #4 hitter?

[Kimmi]

But if you're playing for a big first inning, why not also have a strong hitter at #3 who can drive in runs and also get on base for the #4 hitter?

 

The #3 hitter comes up more often than any other slot with 2 outs and no one on, largely because of the 1st inning. That is the worst situation, in terms of run scoring, for your best hitter to come up to bat in.

 

You can only play for the big first inning if your #1 and #2 guys get on base, in which case the #4 guy will get up in the 1st inning anyway.

 

 

 

Once again, though, it really doesn't make much of a difference.

[notin]

The #3 hitter comes up more often than any other slot with 2 outs and no one on, largely because of the 1st inning. That is the worst situation, in terms of run scoring, for your best hitter to come up to bat in.

 

You can only play for the big first inning if your #1 and #2 guys get on base, in which case the #4 guy will get up in the 1st inning anyway.

 

 

 

Once again, though, it really doesn't make much of a difference.

 

So the ideal hitter #3 hitter would be someone capable of avoiding double plays. Like a speedy flyball hitter...

[SCM33]

So the ideal hitter #3 hitter would be someone capable of avoiding double plays. Like a speedy flyball hitter...

 

Seems like you are reading too much into it.

 

#3 hitter is your best hitter. Its always been that way in the history of the game.

[notin]

Seems like you are reading too much into it.

 

#3 hitter is your best hitter. Its always been that way in the history of the game.

 

And there was a time when the belief that the Earth was flat and the sun revolved around the Earth. And people believed it because everyone always had. Things change..,

[SCM33]

And there was a time when the belief that the Earth was flat and the sun revolved around the Earth. And people believed it because everyone always had. Things change..,

 

All that has been proven untrue. Things do change.

 

#3 hitter still continues to be the best hitter in a lineup. Its where Betts should be hitting.

[S5Dewey]

And there was a time when the belief that the Earth was flat and the sun revolved around the Earth. And people believed it because everyone always had. Things change..,

 

That's just a false correlary (sp?). It implies that just because some things that have always been believed have been proven to be untrue then everything that has always been believed is untrue.

 

There were times when people believed that the sun comes up in the East and water is wet, too. Some things don't change.

[notin]

That's just a false correlary (sp?). It implies that just because some things that have always been believed have been proven to be untrue then everything that has always been believed is untrue.

 

There were times when people believed that the sun comes up in the East and water is wet, too. Some things don't change.

 

 

No it isn’t.

 

It’s a reminder that just because people always believed something is not a reason to still believe it.

 

Or do I have to break bad news to you about the Easter bunny?

[moonslav59]

First Santa, now the Easter Bunny?????

 

What's next? The tooth fairy?

[cp176]

And there was a time when the belief that the Earth was flat and the sun revolved around the Earth. And people believed it because everyone always had. Things change..,

 

This is what troubles me about this entire argument which i will admit is somewhat ridiculous. Are you comparing drastic change proven by science to whether or not your best hitter should be hitting third in a batting order? i do realize to some here that if you do not accept their concepts and ideas with regard to their statistical information, you must be a stumbling bumbling old fool. i get that but really, with respect to the number 3 hitter in the lineup, some of us old fools still believe that if you get by that first inning, the chance of that guy coming to the plate with runners on base might not be too bad. For the record, I do not feel that all true believers in all things statistical live on a more enlightened plane than i do. I actually think that they tend to be rather close minded.

[cp176]

First Santa, now the Easter Bunny?????

 

What's next? The tooth fairy?

 

 

Don't go down that Santa road with me Moon - "Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus" - I read it in the times! lol

[jacksonianmarch]

Who cares where he’s hitting right now. Your team scored 26 runs in a 3 game set and lost the series. The offense isn’t the issue